venience to which he had been exposed on | inconvenience from them.
a recent occasion, when he was
obliged to
send off an express from Cashiobury to
London at his own expense, in conse-
quence of there being no transmission of
letters on a Saturday night, and no de-
livery of them in town till late on Monday.
He considered that the recent arrange-
ments, by overdoing the matter, led to a
great desecration of the Sabbath.

The BISHOP of LONDON differed from the noble Lord as to the increased desecration of the Sabbath, and reminded their Lordships that the petition calling for these new arrangements had received the sanction of most of the merchants and bankers of the metropolis, and of a large majority of the middle classes. He did not, on the present occasion, give any opinion whether they were right or wrong, though his present impression was that they were right. He looked upon the new arrangements as a great trial, as a great exhibition of Christian feeling; and, as a Christian minister, he exulted in the alteration.

LORD KINNAIRD thought that a majority of the inhabitants of our large towns were in favour of the recent alterations. According to the old system, the servants of the Post Office could not command one day of leisure in the week, nor one day for the performance of their religious observances. He confirmed the statement of the Bishop of London. Considering that a letter could now be delivered at a distance of 400 miles in little more than twelve hours, he saw no reason for complaining of the new regulations. He thought that arrangements might be made to obviate many of the inconveniences and difficulties which had recently arisen.

LORD LYTTELTON thought that Her Majesty's Government had taken no sort of pains to make any arrangement by which the inconvenience attending the change might have been mitigated. London enjoyed a complete rest so far as the Post Office was concerned on Sundays, and all that was desired was to place the other parts of the country upon the same footing.

The EARL of MALMESBURY hoped that their Lordships would not reverse the recent decision of the House of Commons by any hurried proceedings. He admitted that the recent arrangements had been called for by great numbers, among whom were to be found many merchants and bankers, who did not, however, suffer much

It was impos

sible, however, to place the towns on the same footing with the country, for there was no delivery at all in the rural districts. The present regulations were productive of great inconvenience, and in many cases produced much unnecessary anxiety and suffering. For instance, suppose a serious accident occurred on a Friday evening. If the sufferer had friends in the country, they could have no alleviation of their suspense by any information respecting his condition in the interval between Friday night and Monday evening.

The BISHOP of OXFORD said, that there appeared to be a great mistake in the mode in which the subject had been viewed by a noble and learned Lord (Lord Brougham), who had contended that the present plan would give employment to a larger number of persons in different parts of the country, than the handful who were formerly employed at the Post Office in London. That, however, was not the correct mode of judging of the subject-a was the many persons who were set to labour throughout the whole country by the arrival of the letters upon Sundays. If it solicitor, for instance, received a letter on that day upon any business, he would be bound immediately to attend to it, and to set in motion his clerks or assistants for that purpose; and if he were not to do so, he would be held liable for his láches. Great stress had also been laid the upon inconvenience which would result from the non-delivery of important letters on Sundays; but that difficulty might be obviated by forwarding the letters by railway in cases of great importance. [4 laugh.] He understood the laugh-it meant that by so doing it would lead to a further desecration of the Lord's day. It would not, however, do so; for the large trading and professional firms would not receive their letters by that means, and even if they did, it would not be a legalised delivery. He did not wish to make the people religious by Act of Parliament; he did not wish to stop the railways on Sundays; but he felt bound to do all in his power to protect those who wished to spend their Sundays religiously.

LORD CAMPBELL protested against the law so broadly laid down by the right rev. Prelate. The right rev. Prelate said, that if a solicitor received a letter on Sunday he was bound, omnibus aliis negotiis omissis, to set his clerks to work on that day, otherwise, an action. Now, that was

The EARL of WARWICK supported the Amendment, stating that in the borough of Birmingham the Health of Towns Bill had not given satisfaction.

not the law of the land; and God forbid it ever should be! If, on receiving his letter, he found it related to John Doe or Richard Roe, he could not set his legal operations in motion on the Sunday; it would be a breach of law to do so. That every solicitor knew well, and such a letter he would throw aside till the Monday. But if he received a letter containing intelligence of the illness or death of a relation, a friend, or a client, he would post off by railway at once, and would perform on the Sunday the pious duty which the emergency required. He deeply deplored that these new regulations had been enforced, for he believed that they would be to a certain extent subversive of the best interests of religion. He (Lord Campbell) was born in a country where the solemnity of Sunday was rigorously observed; but this non-delivery of letters on the Sabbath would by no means promote its better observance in this country.

The EARL of CARLISLE felt himself under the necessity of opposing the Amendment, as it would lead to unnecessary delay, which, at this period of the Session, might perhaps lead to the defeat of the Bill. There was no distinct abuse stated by the noble Earl, and therefore no ground for acceding to his Motion. If acceded to, it would occasion great expense, in consequence of the number ef witnesses who must be brought up from the country. All the arrangements made by the Board of Health ought to be conducted and examined into on the spot. The statements sent up from the town of Dovor would not require much time for examination, and were not of importance enough to require a Committee. Every precaution which the Act demanded had been complied with at The DUKE of GRAFTON expressed his Dovor. He had the satisfaction of andeep obligation to the other House of Par-nouncing to their Lordships that the Bill liament for having established this arrange- was viewed with approbation by all the ment; and he also thanked the Government places to which it was intended to be apfor having given effect to the arrange-plied. Several applications had been made to the Government to prevent any further delay in the passing of the Bill.

ment.

LORD BROUGHIAM said, that on the Northern Circuit consultations on Sunday were not unusual, and that during the two Sundays in which the bar was at York, it always received the liberal hospitality of the Archbishop of York at Bishopsthorpe.

GENERAL BOARD OF HEALTH BILL.

After a few words from Lord REDESDALE and the Marquess of SALISBURY in support of the Amendment,

On Question, their Lordships divided:Content 47; Not-Content 18: Majority 29.

Resolved in the Negative; then the Original Motion was agreed to; House in Committee accordingly. Bill Reported

Order of the Day for the House to be put without amendment. into Committee read.

The EARL of CARLISLE then moved that the House do now resolve itself into Committee.

The EARL of LONSDALE moved that the Bill be referred to a Select Committee to inquire and report whether the preliminary forms directed by the Public Health Act (11th and 12th Victoria, chap. 63) to be observed in confirming "provisional orders" by Parliament, had in the case of this Bill, been duly observed. His Lordship was almost inaudible, but was understood to say, that there were great objections to this Bill in several of the smaller towns; but that, owing to their want of funds, they were incapable of opposing it, especially as it was supported by the whole weight of Government. Their Lordships could not, therefore, be too cautious in dealing with it.

VOL. CXII. [THIRD SERIES.]

FACTORIES BILL.

EARL GRANVILLE moved the Second Reading of this Bill. As there was no objection to the principle of the Bill, he thought any discussion on its provisions might be more conveniently taken in Committee, which he should propose should be fixed for Monday next.

The DUKE of RICHMOND had no objection to postpone the discussion to Monday next; but he must observe that, if the Amendment of which he had given notice were not agreed to, he must contend that the factory operatives would not obtain that which was intended to be assured to them by the Bill of 1847.

LORD WHARNCLIFFE observed, that there were three parties to this measurethe masters, the operatives, and the Legislature; and he considered, under all the

2 M

circumstances, that the proposition of the Government was the most practicable one that could be suggested. The noble Lord was understood to object to the intervention of a week before the measure was brought on for discussion.

principle that the Legislature was bound to procure justice for the community at as cheap a cost as possible; and by the success which had attended the attempts that had been heretofore made, to es tablish local courts for the recovery of small debts they had proved their advance was in the right direction, and that their efforts had succeeded. The Bill establishing the county courts-the 9th and 10th Victoria-in operation since April, 1847, had been eminently successful in two ways, namely, not only by the number of debts that had been recovered through the instrumentality of the county courts, but also by the number of debts that had been recovered in consequence of debtors being conscious that these courts existed as an easy and cheap means of compelling them to pay their creditors. The returns showed that from March, 1847, up to the 31st of December in the same year, 429,215 summonses were issued; while the causes tried were 267,445. In 1848, the number of summonses was 427,611; and the num ber of causes tried was 259,118. And

LORD FEVERSHAM said, that after what had fallen from the noble Lord, he should consider that he would be guilty of a dereliction of duty if he did not say a word or two on this Bill. He could assure their Lordships that a strong feeling prevailed throughout all the manufacturing districts of this country, that if this Bill should pass in the shape in which it was sent up from the other House of Parliament, there would be a breach of faith committed against the working classes of those districts. He had himself presented many petitions during the present Session, stating the views of the working classes, who said that, whereas all that was wanted was a declaratory Act to correct the mistakes made in previous Acts on this subject, they objected to the proposal now made, which, inasmuch as it gave them sixty hours' work per week instead of fifty-according to the returns the total amount eight, went to the extent of not keeping faith with them. He had thought it his duty merely to state what was really the feeling of the operatives regarding this Bill.

LORD KINNAIRD was understood to express a hope that when the discussion came on, a decision would be come to which would be satisfactory to all parties. At the same time, he believed that there prevailed a feeling among the people that, rather than lose the benefit of the measure altogether, they would prefer the present Bill

to pass.

of the small debts recovered from the com mencement of the courts up to the end of 1848, might be estimated at no less an aggregate than the enormous sum of 2,700,000l., which was certainly a very large amount, considering their source to be one of small debts. Their Lordships might judge of the great benefit afforded creditors when he informed them that the number of summonses issued in the county courts was in the proportion of four to one of those formerly issued in the superior courts; so that a large amount of debts would have remained unpaid without the

After a few words from Earl GRAN-creditors taking steps to recover them, had

VILLE,

On Question, agreed to.

Bill read 2a.

COUNTY COURT EXTENSION BILL.

LORD BEAUMONT, in moving the Second Reading of this Bill, regretted extremely that a Bill of so much importance and so very popular should not have fallen into abler hands than his own. The principle involved in the Bill had been constantly discussed in their Lordships' House. It had been discussed in 1830, and in 1833, when a Bill similar in most respects to the present measure was introduced, and though the Bill itself was lost, the question involved in it was very ably discussed. Their Lordships had already adopted the

it not been for the facilities afforded by the
new tribunals; so great and beneficial was
the operation of the Act. Inconveniences
had arisen in consequence of the jurisdiction
of the courts being restricted to 201.; and
a great number of debts amounting to 30%.
or 401., or even sums as high as 45l., were
reduced by the creditors to 201., all the
difference being sacrificed, for the purpose
of bringing the claim within the jurisdie-
tion of the courts.
The effect of this ob-
viously had been to hold out a bonus to
the debtor to defraud his creditor; and the
practice was for unprincipled debtors to
refuse to pay, knowing that the creditor,
sooner than bring them into the superior
courts, would reduce down to 201.; and
then the amount was generally paid. There

was one other reason amongst many why necessary to give, under proper restriccreditors and parties in general preferred tions, the right of appeal, as it would never going into the county courts to the superior do to have the state of the law different in courts-namely, that the parties them- different parts of the country. He supselves were allowed to give evidence, which ported the Motion most cheerfully, but he practice, he found from various sources reserved to himself the opportunity of proof authority, to have a most beneficial posing alterations and amendments in Comeffect. In many cases the statement of mittee. the parties was alone sufficient, and the LORD CAMPBELL said, considering debtor was satisfied with the evidence the office which he had the honour to taken on oath of the creditor. In some hold, he felt it his duty to make some cases the evidence of the parties them- observations on this Bill, so very imporselves was the only evidence which could tant as it was to the administration of be produced: in others the case would be justice. He by no means rose to oppose imperfect without it. The present mea- the second reading of the Bill. He was sure extended the jurisdiction of the exist- always favourable to the county courts; ing county courts to all actions under 501.; he had warmly supported the original Bill, gave additional facilities for settlements of which this was an extension; and he out of court, and increased the control of believed that, on the whole, that Bill had the Lord Chancellor over the clerks. The worked beneficially. He thought it might only thing that appeared objectionable was be beneficially extended; but he owned. the amount of fees, although he could not that he should have been better satisfied coincide in that objection. These were if farther time had been taken to see by the general features of the measure. With longer experience how it worked, so that regard to the details, he was prepared to it might be known where it might be enter into them if necessary, as also to extended, and where its extension would meet whatever objections might be start- be beneficial. But the country being so ed with regard to the various clauses. strongly in favour of this measure, he But instead of doing so now, as he origi- would not oppose it. The principle might nally intended, he thought he would do be applied beneficially where a debt was better in waiting until they should go into due to a tailor by a customer amounting Committee, and he would, therefore, con- to 201. or 301.—the amount was not at all tent himself with asking their Lordships' material, because on such a debt no quesassent to the second reading of the Bill. tion of law was likely to arise, and it might summarily be disposed of by the county courts. Therefore, so far as debts were concerned, he would not advise the alteration of the Bill: but he would solemnly warn their Lordships against a rash extension of the jurisdiction of these courts to actions of tort. This Bill included actions of assault and battery, actions for slander, for seduction, and various other actions, where the case could not be reasonably conducted without special pleading-that was, without written statements on the part of plaintiffs and defendants, showing the real question in controversy between them, with the distinction between law and fact. The "glorious uncertainty" of the law had long been a proverb, and he believed the great advantage of the existing County Courts Act was their certainty. The real evil under the present system was, that nine-tenths of the time of the Judges was taken up in endeavouring to reduce to intelligibility the ill-digested legislation of Parliament. That very day an important case had been settled by the Court of Exchequer. A

LORD BROUGHAM said, the Bill was one of great importance, and likely to work great alterations in the judicial system of the country. It was certainly an experiment; and as such he should declare that he would not then oppose the second reading of the measure, as he was undoubtedly open to conviction on the matter. Reference had been made to a measure said to be similar to the present, which he (Lord Brougham) had the honour to introduce in 1833, but which had been defeated by the small majority of one. Now, the present Bill differed from that introduced by him in three points, which he would not then argue, preferring to reserve his observations until they should get into Committee. He was clearly of opinion that certain of the provisions contained in his Bill of 1833 ought to be introduced into the present measure, particularly that which related to the right of appeal and the choice of a court. He thought no appeal should be allowed from the decision of a county court judge in matters of fact; but on points of law, he viewed it to be