right hon. Gentleman could be attended with any inconvenience. It would not neceffarily cut off our recourse to great manufacturing towns for the recruiting fervice. While others would be more produtive, those sources also would be left qually open as at prefent. The right hon. Secretary, he thought, had not fufficiently explained how the bartalions he had mentioned were to be officered, as there must be an influx of officers as well as men. The right hon. Gentleman, by prefcribing the period in which the number of men were to be raised for the purpose of procuring rank, had defeated, in a great meafure, the object of this arrangement; but it would fill appear more ridiculous, when it was recollected, that they were not only obliged to raise them within a given time, but not permitted alfo to give them more than a certain fpecified bounty. The Minitters by fuch means were certainly cutting the throat of their own plan. If a man is limited to a certain time, he must neceffarily give the greater bounty. If you, therefore, tie up his hands in both refpects, you go very far indeed to prevent any reasonable hopes of fuccefs. The hon. Gentleman then adverted to the fubfcription clubs that had been noticed by both the preceding fpeakers. In many refpects, he acknowledged, he was against ballotting for men altogether; but in fome inftances alfo, he would admit it to be expedient. In agricultural counties particularly, Gentlemen from the country must know, that there would be great inconveni encies without a fyftem of this defcription. The hon. Gentleman concluded by giving his negative to the motion for the Committee, on the principle, that if the bill paffes, the army of reserve act can no longer exift; that a repeal, therefore, was more proper than a fufpenfion, and that the meafure intended to be brought forward by the right hon. Gentleman (Mr. Pitt) was entitled to a previous discussion.

The Secretary at War thought that the arguments of the hon. Gentleman oppofite him could not, by any fair and dif paffionate obferver, be fuppofed in the leaft to militate against the provisions of the bill. One argument of his was, that the measure was not calculated to produce men, but money. Unless he confidered that as an argumentum ad hominem, inftead of the argumentum ad rem, he thought it could not poffibly be confidered as any argument at all; for in a fubfequent part of that hon. Member's fpeech, he submitted that, of 40,000 men which it had been propofed to raife by that bill, there were now actually raised and embodied to the full amount of 30,000 men; and it was admitted on all hands,

that

that of all the measures for the increase of our military strength, the army of referve had procured the largeft poffible number to our difpotable force. Neither himself nor any of his right hon. Friends withed to contend that it would by no means injure the general recruiting for the line; on the contrary, they only faid that it did not put a stop to the general levy for extensive service, but admitted that it muft, as all - levies for limited service muft, tend pro tanto to diminish the recruiting for the regulars. He had objected in fuch general terms that while he condemned the operation of that act, he cenfured Minifters for bringing forward any thing like a repeal of the law which he icemed to think obnoxious. He did not pofitively fay which of the two he thought was beft. Minifters, however, had not adopted either; they had taken a middle courfe; and only moved for a temporary fufpenfion of the law, until the recruiting for other fervices thould be completed. In his objections to the measure of fufpenfion in itself, he had given it the mild title of a bill of falfe pretences. He could not fee the propriety of the application of fuch an epithet. In this branch of his argument he seemed particularly to refer to the mode of raising money, which was provided for by the bill. When fome of the counties in the weft of England, for inftance, had exerted themfelves with the greatest alacrity, and perhaps with fome degree of fuccefs, and had completed almoft the whole of their quota, would any Gentleman ftand up and fay that it was an act of juice to put them on the fame footing with other counties which had not displayed a fimilar cheerfulness of fpirit, or raifed a proportionate number of men? The hon. Gentleman had alfo denied the inconvenience which must refult, to the Houfe from a confideration of the two mea ures, that of the bill which was now before the House, and that of the propofition which had been made by a right hon. Gentleman under the gallery. He confeffed that for his part he plainly faw that great inconvenience must arife from the circumstance of entertaining two queftions of that nature at the fame time. The one was for a temporary fuspension of an act already etablithed, and which must be confidered as a matter of experiment. The other was for the adoption of a new meafure, which was fo extenfive in itself, and fo ample in its detail, as to form fufficient grounds for the introduction of a new bill, which would require the most serious deliberation of the Houte. A particular provifion in the bill he had regarded as a job. But really he could not fee how 4 N 2

any

any thing like a job could be likely to be made of fuch a regulation. The counties that were particularly deficient in the fupply of their quota of men, were to be made subject to the penal provifions of the former ftatute. To afcertain the fum which they were to pay for fuch a deficiency or neglect, it was neceffary to make inquiries of different perfons, no one of whom could have within himself the power of making a complete return from his own knowledge. Some might be dead, or others might have deferted between the time of their being raifed by the parith dif trict, and the time at which it was expected that they had entered on real military duty; others might have been discharged after they had been fent to join their regiments. For this purpose, he thought that it was abfolutely neceffary that fome gentlemen of refpectability thould be appointed to a fervice which was to effential to the public intereft, and fo diversified in its tunctions. There was one question to which the hon. Gentleman appeared to attach the greateft importance-that was the payment of fines by the county at large. He evidently confidered that the law was intended to be the fame in that refpect as the militia laws. In the militia the deficiencies were to be reckoned as fo much fine upon the county, it was true. The army of referve act also levied the penalty on the county in the firft inftance; but it provided that the money thould te afterwards eventually paid by the parish which was deficient. The hon. Gentleman had ftated fome objections alfo to the inftructions to officers, who had to raise a certain number of men for a certain rank in the army. That might be made a feparate question, no doubt, if any hon. Member thould think fit fo to do; but it surely had no connexion with the immediate queftion, namely, the Houle going into a Committee on the army of referve fulpenfion bill. As to the juftice of the cafe, confidered on the fcore of propriety, railing a certain number of men within fix months, that was an object for the officers themfelves to look to when they faw the inftruction's. If they thought the length of time was not of fufficient duration, they could very eafily avoid entering into fuch an engagement. The infructions, however, were not fo rigidly adhered to, as totally to preclude Min fters from extending the period in which any given number of men was to be raised, according as the circumstances of the cafe might warrant. If it appeared upon the whole that the army of referve act stood in the way of thofe levies, or the general recruiting for our dif pofable force, that circumftance could not be fairly urged as

an

an argument against the fufpenfion of the bill. It furely must be confidered as an act of juftice to thefe gentlemen, to remove an obstacle which stood in the way of their raising their quantity of men within the period limited; and above all, it must be a meafure of the greateft utility at the prefent moment, to fulpend the operation of any meafure which in the smallest degree tended to leffen the general recruiting for our armies. In a very populous diftrict in the country, he knew it for a fact, that perfons in but moderate circumstances had paid 201. fooner than enter into the army of referve as fubftitutes, which they might have done at the time and have received 401. He by no means withed to ftate that these objections were generally to be met with, but it was fufficient to thew that fome temporary fufpenfion of the law was neceffary. The propofition of the right hon. Gentleman could only be deemed at prefent a matter of experiment. Confidering the prefent meafure in the fame point of view, it moft certainly was entitled to fome claim of priority; and the Houfe would recollect at the fame time, that nothing was now intended to be done which would totally deftroy the good effects of the army of referve act, but that the measure was brought forward as the means of accelerating the increafe of our difpofable force. If any other fyftem was to he adopted, it might be the object of future difcuffion, without interrupting the progrefs of the prefent bill.

He

Mr. Fox, after all he had heard on a former day, as to the neceffity of a thorough difcuffion of the prefent bill, was furprised to find that it had not yet been thought neceffary to enter into any explanation of the neceffity of it. had not heard a fingle word in fupport of the bill; but its fupporters had confined themfelves to a general recommendation and imperfect defcription of its features. On Friday laft they were not prepared to enter into its merits, and now the Houle was to understand that they muft wait till another ftage for any fatisfaction on the tubject. The framers of the army of referve bill, at its firft adoption, found it a mealure next in efficacy to the philofopher's ftone. The fufpenfion of it, the Houfe was now called on to believe, would do great wonders; and, there was little doubt, the revival of it would be a call on their credatity to a fill more unbounded ́extent. It was not, however,

his with to keep Gentlemen to their promifes of a former day. He argued, that fufficient unto the day was the folly thereof. It was faid that the bill had exhaufted at prefent

all

all its force; as if they had been told of a horfe that his ftrength was exhaufted, that he was fatigued; but let him fleep, and he would fpeedily recover; or like a pumpwell, out of which no water can be drawn, because the works are out of repair. No, these are not the reasons affigned. But Minifters fay," Stop-this water has got fo low, that you cannot pump out of it 10,000 men at prefent; but wait till the water is reftored, and then you may pump out of it more men." Another mode, however, has been propofed by the fight hon. Gentleman under the gallery (Mr. Pitt). But what do Ministers say to it?" Let us try our measure before yours. We have gone on as far as could be gained in the way of a limited force. As we cannot carry it further, let us try if we cannot fucceed better in an attempt at an unlimited fervice. As we cannot get more men to confent to ferve in Great Britain, let us try if we may not induce others to extend their fervices beyond it."-Prepofterous, indeed, and contrary to all or der, and to every idea of common understanding, was it to fuppofe, that having exhaufted the more eafy and lefs extenfive fpccies of fervice, they could then, without any improvement, without any favourable alteration of circumftances, expect greater fuccefs in the more difficult and more extended fervice. They reprefented the act authorizing the army of referve as an act which had done more than any other measure could have done. If it had failed them, how could they expect that a lefs efficient plan wast to be crowned with greater fuccefs? What hopes could they have of fuccefs in any fhape, when this most fuccefsful of all meafures had failed them? The plain anfwer was, because by giving rank to the officers, you opened the door for giving higher bounties than were given in any other fervice whatever. The limitation of time for railing the number of men to entitle an officer to his additional rank, fo far from operating as a check on this practice, would, he was convinced, as his hon. Friend (Mr. Whitbread) had already noticed, prove an additional encouragement to the increafe of fuch bounties. Rank was the great aim of officers who would undertake to raise men in this manner, and having made up their complement nearly to the num ber agreed on, there was little doubt, that fooner than facrifice their object, they would give any bounty, even to the extent fpecified by his hon. Friend. But Minifters faid, the fufpenfion of the army of referve would do much good. All that it could poffibly do, he and his friends had already ftated,