mation he could acquire, about 30 per cent. below its nominal value; the bank tokens 21 per cent.: the proposed new coinage would be only 6 per cent. This seignorage of 4 shillings out of 66, would pay the expense of the coinage, which was estimated at 21 per cent., and leave a profit to government of 35 per cent. of pieces in eleven months, this was an astonishing exertion considering the difficulties that were to be encountered and surmounted, but now such was the improved state of machinery, that at the mint alone he flattered himself they might coin the sixty millions in seven months. In the coinage of 1696, great inconvenience and He came now to the consideration of distress was felt in consequence of all the the most painful and difficult part of the silver being withdrawn out of circulation. subject, viz. that of the loss which indivi- Another great evil arose from the circumduals would sustain by withdrawing the stance of a part of the silver being issued present silver coinage out of circulation, while the coinage was going on (the whole and substituting the new coin for it. It coinage lasted four years); for the counwas very difficult to ascertain what was terfeit coiners took it as it came out dethe quantity of silver currency at present faced it, and sent it back to the mint as old in circulation exclusive of the bank tokens. silver, by which means government susIn the year 1805, lord Liverpool estimated tained an immense loss, and that would be the amount at 3,960,000l.; an estimate the case in a still greater degree now, if a which he thought overrated. In that sum his similar mode were adopted, in consequence lordship estimated about a milion sterling of the adroitness which now prevailed in of half-crowns, of which he believed there counterfeiting the coin of the realm. were scarcely any now in circulation. In the reign of king William, Mr. Lowndes estimated the silver coinage at five millions and a half; and though our population was now doubled, he did not think we had more silver in circulation, though in addition to the coin of the realm 3,400,000l. had been issued in bank tokens since 1811. It was to be recollected, that in the reign of king William, silver was a legal tender to an unlimited extent, and large payments were constantly made in it; in those days it was the practice, as it now is in some foreign countries, to pay large sums by weight in bags of silver. Upon the best view he had been able to take on the subject, he was inclined to think that the amount of the silver coin of the realm in circulation was about 2,500,000l.; which with what remained of the 3,400,000l. issued in bank tokens which he estimated at about the same amount, would make the total amount of the silver in circulation perhaps not quite five millions sterling. In providing for the calling in of the old silver, that plan which would be the most rapid in its operation, would undoubtedly be the best. If two millions and a half were coined now, three-fourths in shillings, and one-fourth in sixpences, it would afford a coinage of thirty-seven millions aud a half of shillings, and twenty-five millions of sixpences, and, he trusted, that in seven months from the day the act passed, the royal mint might be able to produce these sixty-two and a half millions of pieces. In the year 1696, the royal mint, assisted by four other mints, produced thirty millions He would now state the plan which he meant to propose; the public had for a very long series of years been left without any regular supply of silver coinage the consequence was, that the coin of the realm, by wearing and the various accidents to which time infallibly renders the precious metals liable, must be very much reduced in its value, and yet the people had no alternative but to receive it in circulation. It would therefore be fan extreme hardship to allow them to suffer for what might be called the fault of government; He should therefore feel it his duty to propose the exchange of all the coin of the realm in circulation, however reduced it might be in weight. From the danger of circulating the two precious metals as legal standard coin to an unlimited amount, government had abstained from any coinage of silver for near a century: it was, therefore not surprising, that much base and foreign coin had got into circulation. But it could not be expected that base or foreign coin could be received in exchange for the new coin. In 1696 every thing was received into the mint except base metal and copper washed with silver, and in consequence of this extreme latitude, and the circumstance of the issuing a part of the silver while the coinage was going on, government lost upon that occasion, as he had already stated, above 2,700,000l.; and if the same course were pursued now it would be impossible to calculate the loss that would be sustained. But while on the one hand, he was anxious to preserve the public from so heavy a loss, he was on the other, equally desirous that individuals, particularly those of the poorer classes should suffer as little as possible. It was, he feared however quite impossible to prevent many persons from sustaining a loss from the calling in of the old coin; all that government could do was to make the burthen as light as possible. It would have been a desirable object to have had the whole of the silver coinage prepared and ready for issuing before he came to parliament, because then the exchange could have been made of the new for the old coin, almost instantaneously, and with very little comparative inconvenience to individuals. That plan, however, was impracticable; we were by law prohibited from coining silver at the mint, and there were also other acts of parliament in force which must be repealed before any of the regulations he had stated could take effect; it was, therefore, absolutely necessary to open the case to parliament before any preparation for coinage could be made. With the view, however, to secure individuals as far as possible from loss, it was intended in the exchange of the coins to receive all the silver that could be recognized to be of the coinage of the royal mint to examine what was offered, as such in the most liberal and indulgent manner, and where any doubt existed, to decide in favour of the individual. It might appear difficult to ascertain the genuineness of coin so defaced as ours was, but he believed there were persons who would be able to determine it with tolerable accuracy. For the purpose of still further, securing poor persons from loss, it had been suggested to him (and he now threw it out for the consideration of the committee), that it would be advisable to limit the legal tender of shillings to three, and of sixpences to the same number in any one payment from the passing of the act, till the proclamation issued for exchanging the coin, by which means a poor person would not be compelled to receive many of the doubtful shillings or sixpences at one time. If, for instance, a workman had sixteen or eighteen shillings to receive as wages, he would not be under the necessity of taking more than three shillings, or three sixpences, and might demand the rest in tokens, which the bank, of course, would pay on demand. He wished gentlemen would turn this subject in their minds, and if any other plan occurred to them better calculated to attain the object they had in view, he (VOL. XXXIV.) would listen to it with the greatest attention. With respect to the withdrawing the old coin and substituting the new for it, he did not think it would be attended with any difficulty which might not be overcome by arrangement and method. He should propose that no alteration whatever should take place with respect to our coin of any description, until two millions and a half of the new coin should be ready to issue from the mint, but while the coinage was in progress, proper steps would be taken to enable government to lodge it for the circulation; when it was all prepared it might be exchanged simultaneously all over Great Britain; a proclamation would be issued calling upon all persons to bring in their old coin to be exchanged within a limited time and he had no doubt that in a very few days the transfer might be completely effected. When the new coin got in circulation it would, of course, supersede the bank tokens which would be brought to the mint to be recoined, and which he trusted might be replaced with very great rapi dity. According to this plan the committee would see that the inconvenience that would result from withdrawing the old coin from circulation before the new one was ready for delivery would be avoided. Individuals would not have far to go to get their old coin changed. He hoped that such arrangements would be made as to render it unnecessary for an individual in any case to go more than fifteen or twenty miles for that purpose. It had been said that they ought to issue the new coin during the progress of the coinage, and not to wait till the whole was complete, but he was quite convinced that such a measure would be attended with immense loss to the public, because the new coin would be immediately defaced as it came out, and brought back to be changed as old silver, and it would be impossible to detect the imposture. The proclamation to be issued for exchanging the coin, would limit the period of the exchange; when that period expired, the old coin would be no longer a legal tender, but would be liable to be cut if offered in payment, and the principle upon which the new silver coinage was to circulate, would be enforced from the date of a proclamation to be issued for that purpose. The subject would then be empowered to bring silver bullion to the mint for coinage, as he was under the act of Charles 2nd, but the seignorage of four (3 Q) shillings out of the sixty-six shillings, into which the pound troy was in future to be cut, would be retained from him. The committee would observe that he had said nothing with respect to Ireland. It was at first intended that 500,000l. of the new coin should be sent to that part of the United Kingdom, but upon consideration that plan was abandoned. In Ireland the bank tokens in circulation were coined by government; they were by act of parliament made a legal tender, in the payment of all taxes and duties till the expiration of the bank restriction; they were then to be received by the tellers of the exchequer, and coins of the realm exchanged; under these circumstances it was not thought necessary to interfere with the circulation of Ireland, till the expiration of the bank restriction act. He should not trouble the committee any longer, except to thank them for their indulgence. He should be happy to give any explanation that might be required either now or during the many opportunities that would occur while the bill was in progress. If the committee should approve of the resolutions which he should have the honour to propose, he should bring in the bill, move for it to be printed, and then let it lie over for consideration till after the holidays. Mr. Pole then concluded, with moving the following Resolutions: viz. 1. "That it is expedient that all silver coin, plate, or bullion, of silver, in mass, molten, or alloyed, or any manufacture of silver, be permitted to be brought to the mint, in pursuance of any proclamation to be issued by his majesty, and melted and coined into current silver coin of this kingdom, of a standard, in fineness, of eleven ounces two penny weights of fine silver, and eighteen penny weights of alloy, in the pound troy, and in weight, after the rate of sixty-six shillings to every pound troy; and that there be delivered a sum in silver coins, after the rate of sixty-two shillings of the standard fineness and weight aforesaid, for every pound troy of silver so bought; and that, for the defalcation or diminution, and for the charge for assaying, coinage, and waste in coinage, there be retained at the mint the sum of four shillings for every pound troy of such silver, which shall be so brought as aforesaid. 2. "That it is expedient that the silver coin of the realm, heretofore coined and now current, be permitted to be brought to the mint and exchanged for new silver coin, according to the denomination for which such old silver coin shall have heretofore passed. 3. "That, provision be made for defraying the loss arising from the deficiency and re-coinage of the silver coin of the realm, and also the charges and expenses of melting down, casting, assaying, and re-coining the same, and all other expenses incident thereto. 4. "That it is expedient that provision be made for regulating the currency of the gold and silver coins of this realm." Mr. Baring adverted to that part of the speech of the right hon. gentleman, in which he had lightly touched a point of much importance, namely, the assumption that gold coin had, within the last seventeen years, become the standard of value. He entered into some detail of the state of the currency abroad, and of the comparison between the quantity of gold and silver, contending that in England gold was dearer than silver, and consequently of more difficult circulation by 4 per cent. He thought it of great importance that the country should be aware of the intention to make the gold coin the legal standard of value, and to shut the door against silver being considered so. Certainly gold would be the more perfect standard, if it could be attained; but he feared that silver being more practicable would, in point of fact, be the standard of value, notwithstanding any legislative enactments. Besides, as a silver circulation could be more easily established than one of gold, the resumption of cash payments by the bank could be more conveniently and expeditiously made in the former than in the latter. The number of guineas at present in the country would form but a slight objection to a change he proposed, viz, that of issuing twenty shilling gold pieces, instead of the present guinea. The right hon. gentleman might not know the amount of the gold coin in the country, but he believed it not to exceed half a million. Mr. Ponsonby suggested that the rela tive value of the copper currency must be affected by the proposed regulation with regard to the new silver coinage. Mr. Huskisson did not think any evil could arise from the improvement of the relative value of silver to copper. He was strongly of opinion that gold ought to be retained as the general and legal measure of value. woman, being married to a natural born subject, might be sent out of the kingdom. He thought it advisable to guard against such an abuse, and wished, therefore, to introduce a clause setting forth, that nothing in the act should be construed to extend to any femme couverte, she being an alien, whose husband was a natural born subject. Mr. Horner acquiesced in most of the principles he had heard laid down, but could not help expressing his doubts of the success of this measure during the continuance of the bank restriction, unless the bank should adopt a different principle from that on which they had hitherto acted. He apprehended that no precautions would prevent the new coin from being melted. It was a matter of great doubt with him whether, in the present temper and circumstances of the lower orders, this was a favourable period for a new experiment on their peace, or for imposing an additional hardship upon them. He would not press this consideration further, but it was evident that the poorer classes including the small shop-keepers must be the principal sufferers, and he hoped this had not failed to attract due attention on the part of go-to aliens, whether meant so or not. Cases vernment. Mr. Giddy preferred gold to silver as a standard; every body knew that this standard must be arranged by weight, and this could be done with more facility in the one metal than in the other. He also thought that the currency of Ireland might be assimilated to that of England. Mr. Bankes complimented Mr. Pole for the manner in which he had introduced this question. He, however, concurred in the opinion of Mr. Horner, that this was not a moment in which panic and alarm should be scattered abroad among the people. The greatest caution should be observed in this respect. He thought that until the bank resumed its cash payments, gold should not be fixed as the only standard. The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, that ministers had not been insensible to the delicacy of the measure under the present circumstances; but it was one, not of choice but of necessity. From the present cheapness of silver, there were no other means of preventing the country from being inundated with fabricated pieces, the continuance of which must daily increase the evil. The resolutions were then agreed to. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Friday, May 31. ALIEN BILL.] Lord Castlereagh moved, that the adjourned debate on the Alien Bill should be resumed. Lord Milton said, that under the operation of the bill, as it now stood, an alien Lord Castlereagh thought a discretion upon that point might safely be left in the hands of government, and that it would only be embarrassing the operations of the bill with needless enactments, to insert the clause proposed. Lord Folkestone said, that the noble lord objected to the clause, not that it tied up the hands of government, but because he wished to have entire discretion and control. The bill was a measure of hardship of abuse had been stated over and over this extraordinary power was to be vested from sending back any unfortunate fo reigner who had fled from persecution into the jaws of the danger he had escaped. He was well aware that this would be opposed. His amendment in substance was, that whenever a foreigner was to be sent out of the country under this act, he should be allowed to elect the port or place to which he was to be conveyed, provided the means of transport were to be found in any part of Great Britain or Ireland. Lord Castlereagh thought the amend lished the pope, and the inquisition, and the house of Bourbon, the old and constant enemy of toleration, and had connived at the persecution of the Protestants in France. The object of the bill was to establish a power unknown to our laws and constitution. But the present policy, it appeared, had a view to the possibility of the French government being affected by aliens residing in this country. It was quite novel for the British parliament to legislate for the support of the government of France. He protested against the bill in toto Sir S. Romilly said, that as the billment quite unnecessary, as it was impos stood, the home secretary could send out sible ministers could have any rational mo, of the country an alien woman married to tive for abusing the trust committed to a natural born subject, and even the mo- them, and as they always acted on their ther of Englishmen. The question was, constitutional responsibility, whether such a power should be granted? The only reason he could learn for it was that as a former proposition of amendment had been rejected, so ought the present. Because ministers said they were not likely to abuse the powers they asked for, was the House to enable them to do so if they chose? The power had been abused in various cases; in one case of a man who had lived here fifty years, and had made his property in this country. It must also be admitted, that persons had been sent away at the instance of a foreign minister. When these abuses were seen, would the House grant ministers this enormous power? There was no objection to the clause, but the wish of the noble lord to retain the whole power of the alien act. The House divided: for the clause, 31; against it, 91. Mr. Lyttelton conceived the House ought to be ashamed of rejecting every thing which was proposed with a view of mitigating the despotic powers conferred by the bill. He was himself acquainted with one case of great hardship, that of a M. Béfort, who, having come from France with a passport signed by the noble lord last year, had been immediately ordered to return, although his whole fortune, which was not inconsiderable, was in this country. This individual could not be supposed a great friend to Buonaparté; for he had lost three sons by the conscription, and had a daughter married to an Englishman resident here. This was an additional proof why such a power should exist no where, but least of all in a free country. Mr. Bennet begged to ask Mr. Adding ton whether, as this was a transaction immediately belonging to his office, it was not his intention to communicate some explanation of it to the House. Sir S. Romilly confirmed the statement made by the hon. member who spoke last but one. Mr. Addington protested against the practice of throwing out random assertions, and requiring an immediate answer to them. He defied any hon. gentleman to prove that unnecessary rigour had been used in any case, or that the person whose name was last mentioned had been sent to France for the purpose of being exposed to danger. Mr. Abercrombie said, the right hon. gentleman seemed even to deny the right of the House to call for explanation. It was in this manner an act was to be carried which affected the liberties and dearest interests of between 20 and 30,000 persons. |