them, for the convenience of the public, was a breach of the law. The military, within his own knowledge, had behaved better than the constables. He had seen three footmen beaten confoundedly by the constables. Upon the whole, he thought the assistance of the military power proper and necessary, and that there was no ground whatever for calling for the interference of parliament. The Earl of Essex denied that he had purposely put himself in the way of this obstruction, which was not of so insignificant a nature as the noble earl appeared to imagine. The outrage was such, that it manifestly roused the indignation of the people around; his horse was struck, and his life threatened by a soldier, and, if the noble earl had been present, he must have admitted the justice of the appeal made to parliament. He wished, however, to ask a question of the noble secretary of state, as to the manner in which the duty of the sole management and control upon these occasions was assigned to the home department? The orders upon the occasion alluded to came from the lord chamberlain; but he wished to know by whom the duty was assigned to the secretary of state for the home department? Lord Sidmouth said, he had received the Prince Regent's commands to take this duty upon himself as secretary of state for the home department. The Earl of Essex expressed himself satisfied. The Earl of Limerick said, he had a high respect for the noble earl (Essex); he had alleged the insignificance of the question from the supposition, that the noble earl had stated his having gone on purpose to see whether he should be stopped. the truth of the old proverb, "A minister, a spaniel, and a walnut tree, "The more you beat them, they the better be." The Earl of Darnley said, that after the satisfactory and manly declaration of the noble viscount, there was no occasion to persist in the motion. He himself had seen the military on the day when the lord mayor went up to court obstructing the streets for no useful purpose whatever, when there was no well-dressed mob, nor any mob. If this matter had not been brought forward, the abuse would have continued; and it was fortunate that the accident had happened to his noble friend, instead of happening to some obscure individual, with neither means nor inclination to bring it forward. The behaviour of the military yesterday had been exemplary, and indeed no one could meet in the streets any of those gallant men, with the tokens of their highly distinguished services, without feeling his heart swell with admiration. But the object was to check that disposition for military parade on every occasion which appeared to prevail in some quarters, and to employ for the internal services of the country, in matters of police, that sort of force which was best suited to the genius of the constitution. The motion was then withdrawn. BANK RESTRICTION BILL.] The Earl of Liverpool, in rising to move the order of the day for going into a committee on this bill, observed, that no difference of opinion could exist as to the impolicy of removing the restriction without the intervention of some further time to be allowed the bank for that purpose. In stating that he proposed to keep in view that the bank should resume cash payments, and at the Earl Stanhope begged leave to inform earliest period consistent with the public the noble marquis, that he could not with- interest, it was not sufficient to state that draw his motion without the consent of this was his opinion, but it was also recogevery individual in the House, and he nised by the very preamble of the bill. could not know whether he (earl Stan- He should now state the object and purhope) intended to consent or not. A pose of the bill, and the grounds on which noble earl had talked about footmen hav- he proposed, that if no new circumstances ing been confoundedly beaten; but his intervened, the bank at a limited period reason for consenting to let the noble should resume cash payments. He had marquis withdraw his motion was, because already stated, that without some further ministers had been confoundedly beaten time being allowed, it would not be ad(A laugh]. The noble viscount stated, visable to remove the restrictions. By the that he had received the Prince Regent's bill passed in 1803, the restrictions were commands on this constitutional subject, to last during the war and six months and that circumstance he considered a after; that limitation was proper, because complete defeat of ministers. He was it was fitting that we should have the whole glad they were beaten, because it proved subject considered in the first six months after the war. But if the restrictions were necessary during the war, the first six months after the termination of it was of all periods the most improper for the resumption of cash payments. There was during that time such a revulsion in property, from the cessation of the great government expenditure, from the circumstance of commerce finding new vents, and leaving many of its old channels, as rendered such a period most critical and dangerous. The experience of every war proved the embarrassment consequent on a return from war to peace, and the experience of the most successful wars proved this in the greatest degree. There were persons now living, who recollected that on the peace of 1763 the greatest apprehensions were entertained, whether the finances of the country would be equal to the interest of the national debt. When any one considered the duration of the late war, the extensive establishments which had been kept up, the character of a war, which was directly aimed at the commerce of the country, they would not be surprised that the change should be accompanied by considerable embarrassment. But, looking to the evils as merely of a temporary nature, their lordships were bound to proceed with great caution on a subject so immediately connected with them as that now under their consideration. Considerable difference of opinion existed, whether the measure of 1797 had on the whole been productive of good or bad effects on that subject he would not now give any opinion; but there was one disadvantage which he had always considered as resulting from the measure of 1797, namely, the difficulty of again returning to the old system. How ever, he had not the least difficulty in saying, that the bank ought to return to cash payments as soon as possible. He took the 5th of July 1818, in preference to a shorter period, because he was convinced that it would be more advantageous to the credit and interest of the country, and the interest of the bank, to consider at once what would be the first period when they could resume with safety their payments, than to enact a measure for a shorter period, with the intention of renewing it for another period. The wisest course for parliament to follow was, to endeavour to form a judgment of the period when the bank could with safety re-open their payments. From the enormous expenditure of the last five years of the war, nearly : the whole specie of the country had been exported. Even at the times when he used all his efforts to induce their lordships to agree to that expenditure, as the only means to bring the country with safety out of the struggle, he never denied the effects it would have on the financial system, and internal affairs of the country. Many of the speculations published in the Report of the bullion committee had been completely falsified by events. The restoration of peace in 1814, and last year, had had the effect, by stopping the foreign expenditure, of bringing back the specie, even more rapidly than ever he had anticipated. But after so long a foreign expenditure, as that since 1808, it was not a favourable exchange of a few months, which would bring back things to their former level; this would require some considerable time. Any measure which could be adopted for forcing the bank to return prematurely to cash payments, would only have the effect of defeating its own purpose. They would go into the market with the greatest possible disadvantages, and in order to procure a sufficiency of specie to meet the expected demands, they would be obliged to take steps, which would counteract the circumstances operating beneficially in their favour. But what security, it might be asked, was there, that at the end of two years the resumption would take place? The security was in parliament's own hands. If parliament did not think fit to continue the restrictions, the bank were bound to resume their payments as a matter of course. The Earl of Lauderdale thought, that if it were suggested to change 1818 to 1817, it would then be equally left to parliament to consider what might be necessary under any change of circumstances; but he could not confine himself to so narrow a view of the question. Notwithstanding all the noble earl had said as to this being a continuation of the old measure, he (lord Lauderdale) thought it completely distinct from any former measure on the subject. The noble lord knew the sensation that was at first excited when the measure was proposed only for six weeks; that it was then only by degrees carried on to the next session; finally, it was adopted as a war measure only; the present measure, therefore, was quite new in principle. The noble lord thought the first six months after a peace the worst period for resuming cash payments; and, certainly, at that time a great change must take place in the employment of capital; but this made the restriction ten times more dangerous. It was the shifting of property on such occasions that created the danger, and rendered it difficult to raise supplies; but if means were devised for the greatest possible shifting of property, none could be so effectual as the uncertainty of the circulating medium. As to the state of the exchange, all publications on the subject urged that this was the very moment most favourable for a resumption of payments. The price of bullion particularly justified such a measure, and the noble lord must excuse him if he called the present bill completely new in principle. The accommodation to the bank, so much insisted on, only showed that bargains were going on between the bank and government. The bank could never have advanced six millions if they had been compelled to pay in cash; and whenever they did expect to pay, the advantages to government were proportionally diminished. While these dealings were going on, it was a farce to say that the restriction would end in two years. Fifteen millions had been advanced altogether, and it was impossible for the bank to resume payment unless this sum were first repaid. Let any bank director be examined, and he would confess that the bank could not be open without having two-thirds in gold upon their whole advances-The noble lord proceeded to contend, that if proper measures were taken for restoring cash payments, six months would be as effectual as two years; but if the financial system which ministers proposed were followed, namely, that of advances from the bank to the government, twenty years would not be sufficient. The proposition now before the House, in his opinion, therefore, involved in it the most frightful consequences-nothing less than the indefinite continuance of a paper currency, not payable in money, and which left the country without any fixed standard of payments. Nothing could be more frightful than such fluctuation of our currency, especially in a mercantile country like this. The noble lord next assigned the reasons why, for years during the war, the people had not complained of the taxes that were annually imposed. For five years, from 1808 to 1813, new taxes were imposed to the amount of about a million yearly, and yet the people did nct seem to feel them at all. Why were they so much at their ease under this apparently increasing load of taxation? The reason was, that the progressive depreciation of our currency made the sum total received into the exchequer less in real amount than it was in 1808, notwithstanding the perpetual addition of taxes. In illustration of this remark, the noble lord stated the amount of the different sums received into the exchequer during these years as compared with the price of bullion. The people did not complain of taxation, however immense in its apparent amount, because gold was at the rate of 51. 7s. per oz.; but when it fell to about 41. per oz., and when the bank-note, instead of being worth only 15s. became worth 19s. 6d., then the pressure of taxation was felt, and the people complained most loudly. He contended that the necessary effect of this measure would again be to increase the issues of the bank. The country banks would also take advantage of it, and again inundate the country with their notes. Down would go the value of our paper currency, and the country would again bear the weight of taxation without complaint, because the effect would be to reduce the pound note again to 15s. and the taxes would be reduced at least one-fourth of their value. In this way, he believed, the present bill would operate; and he would call upon the House to pause before they adopted a measure that would create such changes in the state of property, and in the relations between debtor and creditor. With this view he should propose that the duration of the bill should be fixed to the 5th of July, 1817, instead of the 5th of July, 1818, that parliament might have the earliest opportunity of amply discussing this most important subject. Another reason was, that he did not think that this permission to alter the currency of the country should be sold to the bank, in consideration of its pecuniary accommodations to the government. Had the noble lord any notion of the immense profits which the bank had made since the restriction was first imposed? In 1797 bank stock sold at 120 per cent.; since then it had risen to 260. Taking, therefore, their capital at 11 millions some odd hundred thousand pounds, here was a clear addition to the amount of about 17 millions. Besides which, the bank had divided, since the above period, 32 per cent. on their capital in the shape of bonuses, making about 3 millions more. They had also regularly paid the 10 per cent. of income tax on the dividends of the proprietors, which in itself it appeared to him that a decided preference should be given to two years instead of one. The noble lord had ad amounted to no inconsiderable sum; so that, upon the whole, he estimated that, since the restriction of cash payments, they had gained a sum of 24 millions, or up-mitted that the bank had conducted themwards of 200 per cent. on their original selves very prudently for years after the capital. Within these few years we had restriction of cash payments. What, then, thus given them no less than 24 millions; was the cause of the difference in value and what he complained of was, that the between their notes and coin which aftersame system which created this enormous wards took place? He ascribed it not to shifting of property was still to be con- an over issue of their paper, but to the tinued. Did the noble lord really believe immense drain of specie created by the that there would be a greater facility of successive campaigns in Portugal and returning to cash payments at the end Spain. When that foreign expenditure of two years than there was at present. ceased to operate, we saw an immediate Would there not be much more difficulty rise in the exchanges of the country, and when the pound note was reduced to 15s. the value of bank-paper rose with a rapiin value, as would in all likelihood be the dity that could hardly have been expected. case, than now when it was worth 19s. 6d.? Now, however, peace being restored, our If the quantity of bank paper was in- foreign expenditure had ceased, and there creased, as he had endeavoured to show was no reason to suppose, with the noble must necessarily be the effect of the pro-lord, that the same difference of value beposed transactions between government tween bank-notes and specie would recur. and the bank, would not the noble lord | This he thought a sufficient answer to the have to lament that the operation of restoring cash payments was thrown entirely out of his power? In imitation, therefore, of the practice of Mr. Pitt, he would recommend that the duration of the act should be as short as possible. For it was observable, that while the restriction was only prolonged for six months at a time, or from year to year, the bank acted cautiously in their issues, and for years the difference in value between their paper and specie was scarcely perceptible: but the moment it was prolonged during the war, all restraint was thrown off, and their paper became speedily depreciated. The negociations going on with the bank, he asserted, were quite inconsistent with the preamble of the bill. That preamble stated it to be important that cash payments should be restored as speedily as possible, whereas the pecuniary accommodations from the bank would necessarily have the effect of postponing it to a distant and indefinite period. The truth was, that this bill took the currency of the country out of the hands of the noble lord, who was responsible to the country in his honour and character, and placed it in the hands of the twenty four bank directors, who were only responsible to their own constituents, whose interests were entirely distinct from those of the people at large. The noble earl concluded with moving that the words "July 5, 1817," should be inserted instead of "July 5, 1818." The Earl of Liverpool shortly replied. He had already assigned the reasons why (VOL. XXXIV.) predictions of the noble lord. All he asked, therefore, was, time to enable the bank to prepare for the resumption of cash payments; not a few weeks, nor a few months, but a time that seemed in all human probability sufficient; for it was evident that, this country having been drained of its specie for years together, the favourable exchanges of a few months could not again restore it. There had already been a beginning of the remedy of the evil, but it must take some time to complete it. He thought that the course of events, far from confirming the doctrines of the bullion committee, as the noble lord imagined, had in fact overthrown them. That committee asserted, that the unfavourable state of the exchanges was occasioned by a superabundance of bank notes, and that even the return of peace would not remedy the evil. It was manifest, however, that on the cessation of our foreign expenditure the foreign exchanges had most rapidly improved. The policy of government was, that it was extremely desirable that the country should return to cash payments; and the only difference which on this point existed between him and the noble lord was with regard to the time. The noble lord said, that the bank direc tors would of course look to the interests of their own constituents. He agreed that they would naturally do so, and would assert that it was right they should. At the same time, as the bank derived considerable advantages, the government (2 P) had a right to expect accommodations in return. He denied that the advances made by the bank would occasion any considerable difference in their capacity of returning to cash payments; but if they did, the bank had the remedy in their own hands, as they might demand repayment of the loans which they had advanced. In the latter case, it would be perfectly competent for parliament to resort to other measures. The amendment was then put, and negatived without a division. The earl of Lauderdale next moved, that after the words 5th July, 1818," there be inserted the words and no longer." The earl of Liverpool opposed this amendment, on the ground that enough was stated in the preamble to show that parliament was sensible of the importance of the bank resuming cash payments, and that any restrictive clause of this sort went only to deprive it of the exercise of its discretionary powers. The amendment was then negatived without a division, the remaining part of the bill went through the committee, and the House having resumed, the bill was reported without any amendment. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Friday, May 17. [mittee arc of opinion that the removal of the duties now levied on rape cake and linseed cake imported would have a beneficial effect upon the agriculture of the country, and tend materially to increase the quantity of grain for the supply of the home market. 2. That it appears to this committee, that neither the soil nor the climate of this country are ill adapted to the cultivation of tobacco, but the difficulties which would attend the collection of a duty on tobacco grown at home, and the temptation which would be held out to defraud the revenue, so long as the present duties on tobacco imported continue to be levied, are such as to induce the committee to be of opinion that no alteration, under the present circumstances, should be made in the laws relating to tobacco." SOAP EXCISE BILL.] Lord Milton presented a petition from several soap manufacturers in the West Riding of Yorkshire, stating, that the additional duties on hard soap were extremely injurious to their interests. The noble lord moved, that the petition be brought up. Sir John Newport said, he had conceived, that the soap duty bill, when introduced by the right hon. gentleman opposite, was merely a regulation bill, and not imposing an additional duty. He put it to the candour of the right hon. gentleman, whether the bill had not been represented as a regulation, merely, and deprecated so unfair a practice. Mr. Lushington was unconscious of having represented the bill in the manner stated by the right hon. baronet. He, on the contrary, had distinctly stated that the bill imposed an additional duty. REPORT FROM SELECT COMMITTEE ON SEEDS AND TOBACCO.] Mr. Frankland Lewis reported from the select committee appointed to examine into the policy of imposing an increased duty on the import of foreign seeds, and who were instructed to consider of the laws relative to woollen goods, and the trade in wool; and also to consider of the laws prohibiting the growth of tobacco in Great Britain; that they had further examined the Mr. Ponsonby observed, that if the matters to them referred; and had direct-right hon. member had stated the bill in ed him to make a report thereof to the that manner, no one in the House had House, with several Resolutions there- heard him, except perhaps the few who upon. The report was read; and the sat immediately near him. resolutions of the committee are as follow: 1. "That it is the opinion of this committee, that any legislative interference which might affect the supply of linseed, clover seed, and smaller seeds, would not hold out such a prospect of relief to the agricultural interest as to induce the committee to recommend measures which they find likely, in some degree, to affect the manufacturing and commercial relations of the country; but that the com The Speaker said, that as the petition was directed against a tax bill, it could not be received according to the orders of the House, established for a century. Lord Lascelles observed, that the bill affected the woollen manufacturers severely, as soft soap could seldom be used in their manufactures. The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, that the effect of the bill would be of course considerably influenced by the drawback. |