proposed allowance for the lord steward's | When he considered the retired life led by department was comparatively enormous. her Royal Highness, he was at a loss to Such a circumstance, then, loudly called conceive how they could be incurred. for inquiry, for the proposed establish- Not only did she live without any show or ment exceeded all rational calculation. ostentation, but absolutely in the utmost The reason why that retrenchment had degree of privacy. It was sufficient, howtaken place, he believed he could satis ever, for him, to show that the estimate of factorily explain. It would be seen, by last year, in the lord steward's department, referring to the estimates of last year, that was greater than could be expended, and 96,000l. was the sum which the lord also that the estimate for the present steward was required to spend, and very year was larger than that required for diligently, no doubt, that officer endea- 1814. voured to obey his instructions. But all He should next consider the fifth class, would not do, for it appeared from the re- or the lord chamberlain's department. turn of the actual expense of the quarter Last year that amounted to about 45,0002. ending October 10, 1815 (he spoke of for the mere expenses of the royal resithat quarter, because the two preceding dences, exclusively of various heavy ones he had not yet obtained), that there charges of other denominations. Now it was a saving of 5,000l. in spite of all his was estimated at 40,000l. including St. efforts. That was a sad falling off; so the James's and Kensington Palaces, Kew, next quarter he resolved to bestir himself, Hampton Court, Carlton-house, &c. Of finding he was getting so much to leeward. that gross amount no less than 20,000l. [A laugh]. Every thing happened to be was absorbed by Carlton-house alone in his favour. The Christmas festivities [Hear, hear!]. He was aware the estiat Brighton were conducted upon the mate mentioned Carlton-house, and "the most liberal scale; the utmost endeavours other residences of the Prince Regent." were made to collect visitants from all But, in point of fact, the Prince Regent quarters, many members of that honour- had no other residence than Carlton-house able House lent their assistance, and a which could be charged upon the civil list. sharp easterly wind set in on purpose, as Brighton was a private property. Now, it were, to give an edge to their appetites would any hon. member who heard him A laugh]; and yet, with all those auxil- believe it possible, that a sum of 20,000l. liaries, the lord steward could not get be- could be required, from year to year, yond 1,000l. more than what he had spent merely for the purpose of supplying Carlthe preceding quarter. If, then, the un- ton-house with furniture? Let the House fortunate savings of the two quarters were recollect also, what enormous sums had added together, it would be found that been expended during the last three years there were nearly 10,000/., through which for the same purpose, and then he would they could not contrive to eat their way. ask, whether there could even be any room Hence arose, no doubt, the economical in Carlton-house where any additional furnizeal of the noble lord, from an absolute ture could be put? Plate, linen, glass, despair of being able to squander any every thing which the wit of man could more. But what ought to be the reflec- fancy, or in which the most profuse extrations of the House upon that point? They vagance could indulge, had been accumusaw that estimates were formed upon the lated during that period, and yet they were most extravagant calculations, without now to be called upon to vote 20,000l. any regard to the real necessities of the more for the same purpose. Nay, he did civil list; and he would venture to affirm, not know whether even more than that that if 10,000l. were lopped off voluntarily 20,000l. was not appropriated to the exby ministers, it would appear, from inves- penses of Carlton-house. There was an tigation, that 20,000l. more might be de-estimate of 10,000l. for contingencies, a ducted, consistently with all due splendour and abundance to the royal table, even from the reduced estimate of 85,000l. Those deductions had nothing to do with the expenses incurred for the Princess Charlotte of Wales. He would pass them entirely over, though he must say that he saw certain articles charged under that head, which he could not comprehend. considerable portion of which he believed it very probable, would be spent for the same object. And let the House bear in mind, that in addition to all that, it appeared upon the face of the report, that 30,000l. were voted last year for furniture, which was still in store. Now, what were the expenses of that branch of the lord chamberlain's department during the seven years from 1804 to 1811, when St. James's, Kew, and Kensington Palaces were regularly occupied? The average was nearly 3000, but then the dukes of Cambridge and Cumberland resided in St. James's palace. At this present moment, Kensington palace was occupied by two of the royal dukes, the duke of Kent and the duke of Sussex, and only about 1251. per annum were laid out upon that residence. He was aware that 300l. were placed in the estimate, but in point of fact, the disbursements really made were not sufficient to pay for the repairing of a single pane of glass, if required. He knew from his own knowledge that not only splendour was wholly out of the question, but that actual conveniencies were neglected. And why was all that parsimony to be enforced in those instances? From motives of economy? Certainly not. The object was to diminish the gross amount of expenditure, in order that the particular expenditure of Carlton-house might be enlarged [Hear, hear!]-Then, with regard to the establishments at Windsor and the queen's palace. Their average expense during the seven years before referred to, was about 11,800l. and yet he believed there was no want of sufficient dignity and splendour about the royal person. Now, 20,000l. were to be voted for one house alone, which, in point of size, might almost stand in the centre of Windsor castle. If such waste and extravagance were sanctioned, it would be mere mockery to talk of economy. During that interval, however, there was no want of royal magnificence. Installations were held, suppers and fêtes were given, and many entertainments indulged in, which he apprehended were quite as gratifying, and somewhat more so, in the public estimation, than some that have lately been exhibited. He declared he could not comprehend how 20,000l. a year could be expended upon furniture for Carlton-house, unless, indeed, every year there was to be alterations and changes to follow each frivolous variety of fashion. If such was to be the practice, then he was willing to admit that 20,000l. would not be sufficient; but if, being once furnished, it was to continue so, for a certain number of years at least, according to the custom heretofore, then he believed most conscientiously that 10,000l. would be found more than enough. Perhaps he should be told of the "other residences of the Prince Regent;" but he would repeat, not only that Carlton-house was the only one which could be justly charged upon the civil list, but that, in point of fact, his royal highness had no other residence, strictly speaking. Would the noble lord talk about the cottage in Windsor great park? That was no residence of the Prince Regent. It appeared sometimes in the public prints (a good authority in such a case, for a person filling his distinguished station could not move about without being noticed), that his royal highness passed two or three days there occasionally, and that was all. The great lodge, in Windsor park, was no royal residence, for it was at present occupied by Mr. Nash, and Cranbourne lodge was now empty, though he hoped it would become the residence of her royal highness the princess Charlotte. Such, then, was the state of the lord chamberlain's estimates, so far as regarded Carlton-house. As to the board of works, though nominally under the lord chamberlain's direction, it was practically under the control of parliament, and therefore he was not so jealous upon that subject, because there would be no difficulty at any time in setting matters to rights in that branch. Upon the whole, it was his firm and deliberate opinion, that if a thorough and full investigation into the expenditure of the civil list were adopted, savings to a very considerable amount (he would not specify any sum) might be obtained. He had frequently said in that House, and he would say it again, that there were too many public officers attached to it. There were too many lords of the bedchambertoo many equerries-too many grooms [Hear, hear!]. Yet he was not for curtailing the splendour of royalty. lords of the bedchamber appointed about the person of the King were mere sinecures, and those about the Prince Regent were not much better; for where there were twenty drawing rooms held by his majesty there was not one now. It would be said, perhaps, that these were unpleasant things to discuss. They might be so. But the country was also in a very unpleasant situation; and he did not see how the latter could be relieved without such discussions as the former. The The next point of the noble lord's speech that required to be noticed, was the new mode of regulating the civil list, and the manner of carrying that regulation into effect. In the quarter ending October, 1815, the marquis of Hertford had made a return to the treasury precisely in the terms directed by the warrant of the Prince terms that the lord chamberlain's office should be beyond their control [Hear, hear!]. They sacrificed those honourable and independent principles upon which alone a minister ought to accept his situa tion; they came into office with their hands tied up on that particular point; they surrendered their privileges for the sake of office, and now the result of their conduct became visible [Hear, hear!].What was the nature of the dispute between the treasury and the lord chamberlain with respect to Brighton? He had asked, and asked in vain hitherto, though he hoped to get at it some day or other, by a copy of the correspondence which passed between lord Liverpool and the marquis of Hertford. Whenever that correspondence should be brought to light, he was much mistaken if it would not disclose some very curious particulars. But on the 23d of February a Treasury Minute was entered, and that minute would prove to the House the nature of the * Copy of Treasury Minute, dated 23d February 1816: Regent. But why was no return made in the same manner for the ensuing quarter? He had repeatedly inquired for that return. At first the chancellor of the exchequer talked about the expenses at Brighton as a cause of the delay; and then the noble lord, taking up the matter, refused to produce the return, because he (Mr. T.) should not be permitted to go into the question by piecemeal, but should wait until the great day of explanation arrived. That day arrived last Friday-and what was the fact? The marquis of Hertford did make a return to the treasury, and he included in that return the expenses of the Brighton establishment. The treasury refused to accede to those expenses, and the marquis of Hertford in his turn, refused to make any estimate at all. Now, if such things were to be allowed, what security was there for the public? If the lord chamberlain might include items of expenditure which the treasury would not allow, and upon that denial, if the lord chamberlain might refuse any estimate at all, there was an end of those salutary provisions which the legislature had enacted, with the intention "My lords are of opinion, that towards of controlling the civil list. The fact how-making good the deficiency of the civil ever was, ministers knew that the marquis list on the 5th January last, the 3 per cent. of Hertford was their master, and they stock now standing in the names of Mr. did not dare to face him [Hear, hear!]. Harrison and Mr. Litchfield, and which He said that without fear of contradiction. was transferred to them as trustees for the And why did he say it? Because the trea- Crown in virtue of a sign manual warrant sury were about to appoint an inquisitor of 24th August 1815, the same having over the marquis of Hertford, to do that been decreed to his majesty in right of his which they could not do themselves. That crown, as the undisposed residue of 、 inquisitor was to have the power of ex- Troutback, esq. deceased, who died withamining the marquis of Hertford, and out heirs, should be sold, and the proothers upon oath. It seemed somewhat ceeds of such sale paid into the exchequer odd, indeed, that such an authority should to the account of his majesty's civil list be granted. He was not much of a cour- revenues. My lords are also of opinion, tier himself, but he should have thought a that it is right and proper that out of the courtier's word might be taken. They, droits of the Crown such a sum should be however, who knew the character of a paid into the exchequer to the account of courtier best, seemed to think otherwise. his majesty's civil list revenues, as, togeBut what was the effect of that new system? ther with the sum to arise from the sale of In his opinion, the whole essence of the the stock before mentioned, will be fully civil list was destroyed by it. How was sufficient to discharge the estimated he to know whether the said inquisitor amount of the deficiency of the civil list would not be as much under the influence to 5th January last. of government as any other individual? It might be said, that he was to hold his situation for life. True; but that was no adequate security in his estimation. He was to do that which the law, by the operation of Mr. Burke's bill threw upon the treasury. And why could not the treasury do it? Because ministers had condescended to take office upon the "The earl of Liverpool and the chancellor of the exchequer having also represented to the board, that his royal highness the Prince Regent has made considerable additions to his residence at Brighton, his private property, both by additional buildings and by purchase of land to annex thereto; they are of opinion, that it is just and reasonable that an aid proposal made by the marquis of Hertford to the treasury. It was, that additions in buildings, additions in land-purchase, and additions in furniture, having been made to the pavillion at Brighton, the expense should be defrayed out of the civil list. The treasury rejected that proposal, indeed, but they compromised the matter, should be afforded out of the said droits, to the privy purse of his royal hignness the Prince Regent, towards the discharge of the expense incurred by his royal highness in making these additions to his residence at Brighton, his private property; and they are therefore pleased to direct a warrant to be prepared and submitted to his royal highness the Prince Regent, for issuing to the right hon. J. M Mahon, the keeper of his privy purse, the sum of 20,000l. on this account. sent. and came to a resolution of applying the droits of admiralty for that purpose [Hear, hear!] If ever a case came before parliament which must undergo a thorough and complete investigation, it was the preSome observations naturally suggested themselves upon the manner in which that paper had been returned to the House. It had always been the practice, when there was a deficit in the funds of the civil list, to apply all the resources of the Crown to meet that deficit; and if they were found insufficient, then to apply to parliament for aid. Now, how did the facts stand? Last year that House had granted 534,000l. to cover the excess in the expenditure of the civil list, and at the very moment when ministers came down to parliament, and called upon them for that vote, they had in their hands 493,000l. of the droits of admiralty [Hear, hear!] No wonder the noble lord wished to fight off the question of the droits of admiralty as long as he could. No wonder that the account was carefully withheld from the House to the last moment, and only disclosed at last when the noble lord was compelled to refer to it. But why was not the circumstance stated as usual? Why were not all the available revenues of the Crown applied to the debts of the Crown, before the country were encumbered with them? Why were the droits of admiralty so studiously kept in the back ground? For other purposes, he would venture to say, than what appeared upon the face of the transaction; and if an inquiry was granted, things would come out which would astonish the country. The treasury minute proceeded to state, that his royal highness the Prince Regent having considerably added to his residence at Brighton (private property be it remembered) it was but reasonable that some assistance should be afforded him towards defraying the expense, and therefore they directed that a warrant should be issued for applying 20,000l. out of the droits of admiralty [Hear, hear!]. But would any man endure to be told, that the droits of the Crown might be made over to increase the private property of any individual, however high or exalted his "The earl of Liverpool and the chancellor of the exchequer having also represented to the board, that an expense has been incurred in providing furniture for the additional buildings at Brighton; and it appearing to my lords that it could not have been in contemplation that the extraordinary expense of furnishing these additional buildings belonging to the residence of his royal highness the Prince Regent at Brighton, as his private property, should be a charge upon the civil list; they are of opinion, that a sum not exceeding 50,000l. should be appropriated out of droits, to discharge these expenses: but as this furniture, though not provided through the department of the lord chamberlain, must be considered as belonging to the Crown, they are of opinion that the account of the expenses actually incurred should be submitted to the examination and control of some person or persons to be appointed by this board, and that no bill should be paid which should not be deemed by such person or persons to be just and reasonable; and that the person or persons to be appointed to this service should make out an accurate list or inventory of the whole of the furniture so provided, or of any other furniture not paid for out of the same private funds as the buildings, in order that the same may be lodged in the office of the lord cham-station might be? If such a practice could berlain, and that the furniture may be taken under the care of that department, as furniture belonging to the Crown. Prepare warrants accordingly. (Signed) "C. ARBUTIINOT. Treasury Chambers, May 3, 1816." (VOL. XXXIV.) be permitted, what was to prevent the selling of those droits, or the raising money upon them and putting it into his own pocket? And let it be observed, that the advance was only towards defraying the expense. Who could doubt that a great (T) deal more would be incurred before the transaction was at an end? But he should be told, perhaps, that this 20,000l. was not out of the pockets of the people. He denied that. It was a direct loss to the public, and he would tell the House how it was a loss. They gave 50,000l. a year to the Prince Regent for an indefinite period to enable him to pay off his debts; and if he had applied that 20,000l. towards the latter object instead of the former, which under all the circumstances of the case, he could not help thinking would have been more decorous and prudent, the public would have come to the redemption of that 50,000l. so much the sooner. The treasury minute then went on to represent, that a considerable expense having been incurred in furniture, at Brighton, 50,000l. should be granted out of the said droits to meet that expense [Hear, hear!]. Really it might have been thought, when 534,000l. were voted last year, for covering the excess of the civil list, a vote which, contrary to all former precedent, had not produced even a message of thanks from the Crown, his royal highness would have been tempted to live within such limits of moderation as would have saved the necessity of another grant. It could hardly have been expected, that he would immediately go down to Brighton and consider how much he could possibly expend, and contrive to lavish so enormous a sum as 50,000l. merely on furniture [Hear, hear!]. The treasury The treasury to be sure, took some sort of security for the country, which was almost disgusting to mention. The furniture was to be put into the House at Brighton, but it was to be recognized as the furniture of the Crown. In his conscience he believed there never was a more coarse transaction, as affecting the character and feelings of his royal highness. Thus had come to light the application of no less a sum than 70,000l., as resulting from the deficient estimate of the lord chamberlain: and thus the history of that estimate was at once disclosed. A scale of extravagance was indulged in such as could never be sanctioned by that House. He lamented that his royal highness was surrounded by advisers who precipitated him into such profusion. At his time of life something different ought to be expected. But there were those about him who encouraged and promoted those wasteful and frivolous projects. He did not mean to accuse ministers of doing it. For their own conve nience even they would abstain, though he was willing to allow that they acted from more honourable motives. It was impossible, however, that things could continue to go on in that course. It was impossible it could be tolerated, that, year after year, the public money should be so squandered, for the droits of the admiralty were public money [Hear, hear!], without some check being provided. Would the noble lord presume to say that the 50,000l. for furniture was really necessary? He would not maintain so monstrous a proposition. No one, indeed, would maintain it who had ever been at the Pavilion at Brighton. It appeared, however, that 207,000l. of the droits of admiralty were still in hand, and he would say, that no time ought to be lost in taking care that that sum should not be paid for private purposes [Hear, hear!]. It was owing, in fact, to the House of Commons, for they had been deceived into a vote of money, which they had no business to grant while those droits remained unappropriated. That money ought to be repaid to the public, or employed for some public purpose. It was in vain, however, to hope that any thing could be effectually done without the appointment of a committee, who should examine all the transactions relating to the civil list, and to whom should be referred the question of the admiralty droits. He would beg leave, before he sat down, to advert to the prospective arrangements of the noble lord. The noble lord proposed to detach the uncertain charges from the civil list, and bring them by annual estimates before parliament like the sums voted for the other branches of public service. Mr. Tierney said, he had reflected a great deal on this subject, he had examined it, in all its bearings, and he was disposed to give it as his opinion, that the best plan that could be adopted was, to vote an entire sum, that might, upon an estimate formed by a committee, upon mature examination, be thought sufficient to answer all demands. It looked well in theory to say that estimates would annually be laid before parliament, and that thus a system of checking extravagance would be annually enforced, but in practice it would be found not so eligible. Ministers could make out their own case: they might conceal from the House many of the reasons on which these estimates were grounded; and they might choose a period of the session for bringing forward |