MARTIN,

13.

and printed is left out; and in leaving out those titles that never were omitted, nor never any question or controversy moved of them by any of the ancient catholic fathers? But you will us to urge no more the title of the Apocalypse of St John the Divine, as though it were not St John the Evangelist's; and we shall please I know not what heretics of our time, except it be the papists, whom it would most concern that the Revelation of St John, in which their antichrist of Rome is so plainly described, were brought out of credit. But if you had read Beza's preface before the Apocalypse, you should find that even by that title he gathereth a probable argument, that it was written by John the Evangelist, because it is not like that this excellent name, THE DIVINE, could agree to any John in the apostles' time so aptly, as to St John the Evangelist, beside the consent of all antiquity, ascribing that Revelation to St John the evangelist and apostle. "Last of all (you say) it is most certain, and we know best by our usual doings, that it is a principal way to discredit any book, to deny it to be the author's under whose name it hath been received." How certain it is with you, whereof no man else but you can see any light of reason or necessity of conclusion, I know not; but we are not so void of wit, if we lacked honesty, that we would discredit Paul's epistle by saying it was Peter's, or Augustine's sermon by saying it was Ambrose's, or Chrysostom's work by saying it was Basil's. But if we would bring any book out of credit by denying the author whose title it hath borne, we would rather entitle it to some other writer of less credit or later time, or by some other arguments prove it unworthy of credit, not by only denying it to be the author's under whose name it hath been received.

Martin. But I come to the third point, of voluntary expositions of the scripture, that is, when every man expoundeth according to his error and heresy. This needeth no proof, for we see it with our eyes. Look upon the Calvinists and Puritans at home; the Lutherans, Zuinglians, and Calvinists abroad. Read their books written vehemently, one sect against another. Are not their expositions of one and the same scripture as diverse and contrary, as their opinions differ one from another? Let the example at home be, their controversy about the distinction of ecclesiastical degrees, archbishop, bishop, and minister; the example abroad, their diverse imaginations and fancies upon these most sacred words, Hoc est corpus meum.

Fulke. That every one of us expoundeth the scripture FULKE, voluntarily according to his error or heresy, you say it needeth 13. no proof, for you see it with your eyes. You have very clear sight to see a mote in other men's eyes, but cannot see a beam in your own. You make your demonstration by the

Calvinists and Puritans at home, and the Lutherans, Zuinglians, and Calvinists abroad; the one for the distinction of ecclesiastical degrees, archbishop, bishop, and minister; the other for their diverse imaginations and fancies of these words, Hoc est corpus meum. But I beseech you, sir, touching the domestical dissension, what is the text, or what be the texts of scripture, upon which these voluntary expositions are made, for the distinction or confusion of ecclesiastical degrees? If they had been as ready as, Hoc est corpus meum, they should have been set down as well as that. But I suppose they are yet to seek; for that controversy, as I take it, standeth rather in collections than interpretations, and in question whether the political government of the church be distinctly expressed in the scripture or no. As for the contention abroad, I confess to stand a great part in exposition of that text, wherein although the one part doth err, is that a sufficient cause to condemn them both? The church of Africa and the church of Rome, and the two principal lights of them both, Cyprian and Cornelius, dissented about rebaptizing them that were baptized of heretics. The Afri- Cyprianus, cans, not in one text only, but in the exposition of many, Coco. differed from the Romans, and from the truth; yet it were hard to condemn them both for heretics, and least of all them that held the truth. St Augustine and St Jerome 1 dissented about a text of St Paul to the Galatians, of Peter's dissembling, as their contrary epistles do testify. The truth was of St Augustine's side; yet was not the other an heretic, following a wrong interpretation. And to come nearer home the Dominican and Franciscan friars were at daggers drawing, as we say, yea, at most sharp and bitter contention between themselves, and all the popish church was divided about their brawling, concerning the conception

unto

you,

[Augustin. ad Hieron. Epist. xxvi. Vol. 1. p. 45. and Vol. x1. p. 85. Hieronymus ad Augustin. Epist. LXXVI. de Petro reprehenso a Paulo. Opera, Vol. iv. pars 2. p. 629. edit. Benedict. 1706. The text was Gal. ii. 14.]

et alii in

Concilio

MARTIN, 14.

Whitak. p. 17 and 120.

FULKE,

14.

of the virgin Mary, whether she were conceived in sin, or
no; where many texts of scripture must needs receive volun-
tary expositions, if not of both parts, yet at the least of
one part which of these will you say were heretics? If
you say neither of both, then must you have stronger
reasons to prove us all heretics, than voluntary expositions,
where parties be in diverse opinions, especially in matters
not overthrowing the foundation of christian religion. And
when you have gathered the most voluntary expositions you
can find, yet shall you find none so gross, so absurd, so im-
pertinent, as you papists have coined for maintenance of
your errors and heresies, of which you yourself are ashamed,
though otherwise you have iron foreheads and brasen faces.
A few examples among a great many shall suffice.
"God
made man according to his own image:" that is to say, we
must have images in the church. "No man lighteth a candle
and putteth it under a bushel:" the meaning is, that images
must be set upon the altar.
"God made two great lights,
the sun and the moon:" that is, the pope to be above the
emperor'." Behold, here are two swords:" that is, the pope
hath power of both the swords. "Put on the whole armour
of God:" that is, the priest must put on all his vestments,
before he say mass. "I am become as sounding brass, or
as a tinkling cymbal :" that is, the bells in the steeple sig-
nify preaching of God's word. I might fill many leaves,
yea, a whole book, of such popish expositions, as the papists
in our days dare not for shame abide by.

Martin. And if you will yet have a further demonstration, this one may suffice for all. They reject councils and fathers, and the catholic church's interpretation, unless it be agreeable to God's word; and whether it be agreeable or no, that Luther shall judge for the Lutherans, Calvin for the Calvinists, Cartwright for the Puritans, and another for the brethren of love: briefly, themselves will be judges both of councils and fathers, whether they expound the scriptures well or no; and every youth among them, upon confidence of his spirit and knowledge, will saucily control not only one, but all the fathers consenting together, if it be against that which they imagine to be the truth.

Fulke. We had need of a better demonstration than the former, by which you yourselves are proved heretics, rather [Innocent III. who excommunicated king John, thus interpreted Gen. i. 16, in a letter he addressed to the English monarch. See Marsh's Lectures, pp. 369, 370.]

than we. But let us see how handsomely you begin. "They reject (say you) councils and fathers, and the catholic church's interpretation, unless it be agreeable to God's word." Thus far you say well. We do reject not only those that you name, but even an angel from heaven, except his message be agreeable to God's word. But all the rest that you assume, to the end of this section, is a stark staring lie, except that you say of H. N.2 for the brethren of love, which are more like to you than to us. For neither Luther, nor Calvin, nor Cartwright is judge among us, whether any thing be agreeable to the word of God; but whatsoever any of them do say, it is examined and tried by the scriptures. And the scriptures themselves, where they are so obscure, that neither by common sense, knowledge of the original tongue, grammar, rhetoric, logic, history, nor any other human. knowledge, nor judgment of any writers, old or new, the certain understanding can be found out, they are either expounded by conference of other plainer texts of scripture, according to the analogy of faith; or else they remain still in obscurity, until it shall please God to reveal a more clear knowledge of them. But none so like the family of love as you papists are, which reject councils, fathers, interpretation of the most ancient catholic church, yea, and manifest scripture itself, except it be agreeable to the judgment of your P. M. Pontifex Max. the pope, as those familiar devils submit all things to the sentence and authority of their H. N. Shame you nothing therefore to quote Whitaker3, pp. 17 and 120, as though he affirmed, that we ourselves will be judges both of councils and fathers, whether they expound the scriptures well or no? because he writeth (percase), that we ought to examine all men's writings by the word of God. Doth the apostle make every man judge of all things, when he willeth every man to examine all things, and to hold that which is good? If any youth, upon confidence of his wit or knowledge, presume too much in divine matters, we count it rashness. But that any youth among us, upon confidence of his spirit, will saucily control all the fathers consenting together against his fantasy, except it be some schismatic or heretic, that is cast out from amongst us, I do utterly [ Henry Nicholas. Vid. Cardwell's Documentary Annals, Vol. 1. p. 392.] [ Ad Rationes Campiani. edit. 1581.]

deny; neither are you able to prove it of any that is allowed among us.

Martin. Whereupon it riseth, that one of them defendeth this as very well said of Luther, "That he esteemed not the worth of a rush a thousand Augustines, Cyprians, churches, against himself." And another very finely and figuratively (as he thought), against the holy doctor and martyr St Cyprian, affirming that the church of Rome cannot err in faith, saith thus: "Pardon me, Cyprian, I would gladly believe thee, but that believing thee I should not believe the gospel." This is that which S. Augustine saith of the like men: Dulcissime vanos esse, non peritos, sed perituros, nec tam disertos in errore, quam desertos a veritate". And I think, verily, that not only we, but the wiser men among themselves, smile at such eloquence, or pity it, saying this or the like most truly: Prodierunt oratores novi, stulti adolescentuli.

Fulke. Why should you not, at your pleasure, upon your false assumption general infer one or two slanders particular? Mr Whitaker defendeth that it was well said of Luther, "That he esteemeth not the worth of a rush a thousand Augustines, Cyprians, churches, against himself." Would God that every papist would read his own words in the place by you quoted, that he might see your impudent forgery! For I do hope there is no Christian that will imagine, that either Luther would so speak, or any man of honesty defend him, so speaking. For Luther was not so senseless, to oppose his own person, but the truth of his cause, grounded upon the holy scriptures, not only against one thousand of men holding the contrary, but even against ten thousand of angels, if they should oppose themselves against the truth of God. But I am to blame to deal so much in Mr Whitaker's cause, who, ere it be long, will display the falsehood of Gregory Martin, in a Latin writing, to his great ignominy.

The next cavil is upon Mr Rainolds' words, in his preface to his Six Positions, disputed upon at Oxford, where against Cyprian, affirming that the church of Rome cannot err in faith, he saith, "Pardon me, Cyprian, I would gladly believe thee, but that in believing thee I should not believe the

[Sex Theses de S. Scriptura et Ecclesia. Rupellæ. 1586, by John Rainolds.

[2 This is garbled from two or more passages: Nam et Homerus, peritus texere tales fabellas, et dulcissime vanus est, &c. Confess. 1. 14. p. 146. edit. Bened. Garriebam plane quasi peritus, et nisi in Christo Salvatore nostro viam tuam quærerem, non peritus, sed periturus essem. Ib. vi. 20. p. 247.]