MARTIN, 17. FULKE, 17. MARTIN, 18. one thing twice for vehemency and certainty's sake, [it] is no inconvenient thing, but commonly used in the scriptures. Martin. Why, my masters, you that are so wonderful precise translators, admit that our Saviour Christ descended not into hell beneath, as you say, yet I think you will grant that he triumphed over hell, and was conqueror of the same. Why then did it not please you to suffer the prophet to say so at the least, rather than that he had conquest only of "death" and the "grave"? You abuse your ignorant reader very impudently, and your own selves very damnably, not only in this, but in that you make "grave," and "death," all one; and so, where the holy scripture often joineth together "death" and "hell," as things different and distinct, you make them speak but one thing twice, idly and superfluously. Fulke For our faith of Christ's triumphing over hell, I have spoken already sufficiently; but of the prophet's meaning, beside the words themselves, the apostle is best expounder, who referreth it to the resurrection, and his victory over death, which he hath gained not for himself alone, but for all his elect. Where you say we make "grave" and "death" all one, it is false. We know they differ; but that one may be signified by the other, without any idle or superfluous repetition, in one verse, I refer me to a whole hundred of examples, that may be brought out of the Psalms, the Prophets, and the Proverbs, where words of the same, like, or near signification are twice together repeated, to note the same matter; which none but a blasphemous dog will say to be done idly or superfluously. Martin. But will you know that you should not confound them, but that mors and infernus, which are the words of the holy scripture, in all tongues are distinct; hear what St Jerome saith: or if you will not hear, because you are of them which "have stopped their ears," let the indifferent christian reader hearken to this holy doctor and great interpreter of the holy scriptures, according to his singular knowledge in all the learned tongues. Upon the aforesaid place of the prophet, after he had spoken of our Saviour Christ's descending into hell, and Hierom. in overcoming of death, he addeth : "Between death and hell this is the Osee. c. 13,1 [Inter mortem autem et inferos hoc interest: mors est, qua anima separatur a corpore; infernus, locus in quo animæ recluduntur, sive in refrigerio sive in pœnis, pro qualitate meritorum. Hoc diximus, ut ostenderemus id mortem facere, quod meretricem mulierem. Mors enim difference, that death is that whereby the soul is separated from the body; hell is the place where souls are included, either in rest, or else in pains, according to the quality of their deserts. And that death is one thing, and hell is another, the psalmist also declareth, saying: "There is not in death that is mindful of thee, but in hell who Psal. vi. shall confess to thee?" And in another place: "Let death come upon them, and let them go down into hell alive." Thus far St Jerome. Fulke. He that by the grave understandeth a place FULKE, to receive the bodies of the dead, and figuratively death, 18. doth no more confound the words of "death" and the "grave," than he that by a cup understandeth a vessel to receive drink properly, and figuratively that drink which is contained in such a vessel. Therefore that you cite out of Jerome maketh nothing against us; for he himself, although deceived by the Septuagintes, or rather by the ambiguity of the word adns, which they use, in the signification of the Hebrew word is, yet by infernus understandeth them that be in inferno, and the dead, as we do by the word "grave" oftentimes. As for his opinion of the godly souls in happy hell before Christ's death, or his interpretation of any other part of scripture, we profess not to follow in our translations, but as near as we can, the true signification of the words of holy scripture, with such sense (if any thing be doubtful) as the proper circumstances of every place will lead us unto, that we may attain to the meaning of the Holy Ghost. 19. Martin. By which differences of "death" and "hell," whereof we Martin, must often advertise the reader, are meant two things: death, and the going down of the soul into some receptacle of hell, in that state of the old testament, at what time the holy scriptures used this phrase so often. Now, these impudent translators in all these places translate it "grave," Bib. 1579. of purpose to confound it and "death" together, and to make it but one thing, which St Jerome sheweth to be different, in the very same sense that we have declared. dividit fratres, hoc et mulier facit. In fratribus, omnem intellige caritatem: quod et mater dividatur a filia, et pater a filio, et frater a fratre. Quod autem aliud sit mors, et aliud infernus, et Psalmista demonstrat, dicens: Non est in morte qui memor sit tui; in inferno autem. quis confitebitur tibi? et in alio loco: Veniat mors super eos, et descendant in infernum viventes. Hieronymi Comment. in Osee. c. xiii. Opera, III. p. 1329.] [FULKE.] 20 FULKE, 19. MARTIN, 20. ᾅδης. Infernus. Fulke. The difference of mors and infernus, which Jerome maketh, cannot always stand; as I have shewed of the hoar heads of Jacob, Job, and Shemei, (which none but mad men will say to have descended into a receptacle of souls,) beside other places of scripture, where sheol must of necessity signify a place for the body. And even those places of the Psalms, that St Jerome calleth to witness, do make against his error. For where David saith, Psalm vi.' "In hell who shall confess unto thee?" how can it be true of the souls of the faithful, being in that holy hell, Abraham's bosom? Did not Abraham confess unto God, and acknowledge his mercy? Did not Lazarus the same? did not all the holy souls departed confess God in Abraham's bosom? Were all those blessed souls so unthankful, that being carried into that place of rest and comfort, none of them would confess God's benefits? It is plain therefore, to the confusion of your error, that sheol in that place of David must needs signify the "grave," in which no man doth confess, praise, or give thanks unto God, of whom in death there is no remembrance. Therefore he desireth life and restoring of health, that he may praise God in his church or congregation. Likewise in the 54th psalm2, where he prophesieth unto the wicked a sudden death, such as befel to Chore, Dathan, and Abiram, which went down quick into the "grave;" not into "hell," whither come no bodies of men living, but the souls of men that are dead. Martin. But, alas! it is the very nature of the Hebrew, Greek, or Latin, that forceth them so much to English it "grave," rather than Six "hell." We appeal to all Hebricians, Grecians, and Latinists in the world: first, if a man would ask, What is Hebrew, or Greek, or Latin for "hell"? whether they would not answer these three words, as the very proper words to signify it, even as panis signifieth "bread." Secondly, if a man would ask, What is Hebrew, or Greek, or Latin, for a "grave"? whether they would answer these words, and not three Sepulchrum. other, which they know are as proper words for "grave," as lac is for "milk." τάφος. קבר [ Ἐν δὲ τῷ ᾅδῃ τίς ἐξομολογήσεταί σοι; Psal. vi. 5. “ In inferno autem quis confitebitur tibi," Vulg.] [· Ἐλθέτω θάνατος ἐπ ̓ αὐτοὺς, καὶ καταβήτωσαν εἰς ᾅδου ζῶντες. Psal. liv. 15. "Veniat mors super illos: et descendant in infernum viventes," Vulg. Psal. lv. 15.] Fulke. The very nature of the Hebrew word is FULKE, is most properly to signify a "grave", or receptacle of dead 20. bodies, as all that be learned in that tongue do know. About the Greek and Latin terms is not our question, and therefore you deal deceitfully to handle them all three together: although neither adns nor infernus are so proper for "hell," but that they may be taken also sometimes "for the grave, and so perhaps were meant by the Greek and Latin translators in divers places. You speak, therefore, as one void of all shame, to say they are as proper for "hell," as panis for "bread." Where you ask what is Hebrew, Greek, or Latin, for "hell," you must understand, that if you speak of a proper word for those invisible places, wherein the souls departed are either in joy or torments; I answer, there is no proper word for those places, either in Hebrew, Greek, or Latin. For that which of all these tongues is translated "heaven," is the proper word for the sensible sky, in which are the sun, moon, and stars; and by a figure is transferred to signify the place of God's glory, in which he reigneth with the blessed spirits of angels and men, above this sensible world. "Paradise" and "Abraham's bosom," who is so childish not to acknowledge them to be borrowed words, and not proper? So for the receptacle of the reprobate souls, in the Hebrew tongue topheth or gehinnom, which properly are the names of an abominable place of idolatry, are used; and sheol sometimes figuratively may signify the same. In Greek and Latin, gehenna is used for the same, which is borrowed of the Hebrew. Sometimes also the word adns, in Greek, is taken for the place of the damned and the kingdom of darkness. The Latin word infernus is any low place. Wherefore I cannot marvel sufficiently at your impudency, which affirm these three words, iw, dns and infernus, to be as proper for our English word "hell," as panis is for "bread." That there be other words beside these in all the three tongues to signify a "grave," I marvel to what purpose you tell us, except you would have ignorant folk suppose that there cannot be two Hebrew, Greek, or Latin words for one thing. 21. Martin. Yea, note and consider diligently what we will say. Let MARTIN, them shew me out of all the bible one place, where it is certain and agreed among all, that it must needs signify "grave"; let them shew Gen. xlix. FULKE, 21. me in any one such place, that the holy scripture useth any of those Fulke. We note well your foolish subtilty, that will have us to shew you one place, where it is certain and agreed among all, that sheol must needs signify "grave." I am persuaded that you and such as you are, that have sold yourselves to antichrist, to maintain his heresies with all impudency, will agree to nothing that shall be brought, though it be never so plain and certain that it must needs so signify. I have already shewed you three places, where the hoary head is said to go down into sheol, that is, into the "grave." For whither should the hoary head go but into the grave? Nothing can be more plain to him that will agree to truth, that sheol in all such places is taken for the "grave." But to omit those places, because I have spoken of them already,. what say you to that place, Numb. xvi., where the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the rebels with their tents, and all their substance of cattle, and whatsoever they had? where the text saith, "They went down, and all that they had, alive, sheolah, into the pit or grave." God made a great grave or hole in the earth, to receive them all. Where no man will say that either the bodies of these men, or their substance of tents, cattle, and stuff, went into "hell," as it is sure their souls went into torment. And if authority do weigh more with you than good reason, hear what St Augustine writeth upon the same text, and how he taketh your inferos or infernum, which in the Hebrew is sheol, quæst. super Num. Lib. iv. c. 29: Et descenderunt ipsi et omnia quæcunque sunt eis viventes ad inferos. Notandum secundum locum terrenum dictos esse inferos, hoc est, &c. "And they themselves descended, and all that they had, alive unto inferos, the lower parts. It is to be noted, that inferi are spoken of an earthly place, that is, in the low parts of the earth. For diversely and under manifold understanding, even as the sense of things which are in hand |