MARTIN, 27. Heb. xii. bishops and priests not understanding, take upon them somewhat of the pride of the Pharisees: so that they think they may either condemn the innocents, or loose the guilty persons: whereas with God, not the sentence of the priests, but the life of the persons accused is inquired of. We read in Leviticus of the lepers, where they are commanded to shew themselves to the priests; and if they have the leprosy, then by the priest they are made unclean: not that priests make lepers and unclean persons, but that they may have knowledge of him that is a leper, and him that is no leper; and may discern who is clean or who is unclean. Therefore even as the priest doth there make the leper clean or unclean; so here also the bishop and priest doth bind or loose, not them that be innocent or guilty, but according to his office, when he shall hear the variety of sinners, he knoweth who is to be bound, and who is to be loosed." But where you say, the people went to diverse ghostly fathers, as before, when that extraordinary penitentiary priest was taken away for the adultery of a deacon at Constantinople'; you speak beside the book, to make the ignorant believe that the people went to auricular shrift. For in Constantinople, where this privy confession was taken away, the people were left to their own consciences. At Rome, the same time, great offenders did open penance, neither were there any such diverse ghostly fathers, as you speak of. That Chrysostom saith, Lib. m. de sacerdotio, we receive it, being so understood, as it be not contrary to that I cited even now out of Jerome. But what maketh all this against translating presbyter "an elder” ? Martin. Now then, to conclude this point, seeing we have such a cloud of witnesses, as the apostle speaketh, even from Christ's time, that testify not only for the name, but for the very principal functions a sacerdote immundi fiant: non quo sacerdotes leprosos faciant et immundos; sed quo habeant notitiam leprosi et non leprosi, et possint discernere qui mundus, quive immundus sit. Quomodo ergo ibi leprosum sacerdos mundum vel immundum facit; sic et hic alligat vel solvit episcopus et presbyter, non eos qui insontes sunt vel noxii; sed pro officio suo, quum peccatorum audierit varietates, scit qui ligandus sit, quive solvendus. Comment. Hieronymi in Matth. c. xvi. Opera, Vol. iv. p. 75.] [See Socrates, Eccl. Hist. lib. v. cap. xix. Sozomen. vii. xvi.] of external priesthood, in offering the sacrifice of Christ's body and blood, in remitting sins, and so forth; what a peevish, malicious, and impudent corruption is this, for the defacing of the testimonies of the holy scriptures tending thereunto, to seek to scratch advantage of the word presbyter, and to make it signify an "elder," not a "priest;" presbyterium, "eldership," rather than "priesthood:" as if other newfangled companions, that would forge an heresy that there were no apos tles, should for that purpose translate it always "legates;" or that there were no angels, and should translate it always "messengers ;" and that baptism were but a Judaical ceremony, and should translate it "washing;" which Castaleo did much more tolerably in his translation than any of these should, if he did it only of curiosity and folly. And if to take away all distinction of "clergy" and "laity," the protestants should always translate clerum "lot" or "lottery," as they do translate it for Clerus. the same purpose "parish" and "heritage ;" might not Beza himself control them, saying, "that the ancient fathers transferred the name ad Nepot. de clerus to the college of ecclesiastical ministers"? In 1 Pet. v. See S. Hier. vit. Clericorum, Ep. 2. c. 5. 27. Fulke. A cloud of testimonies indeed you have heaped FULKE, together, not, as the apostle did, to uphold the certainty of faith, but to obscure the light of truth. For our translation of πреσẞúτeρos “an elder" is true, clear and plain, without πρεσβύτερος ambiguity insomuch as the vulgar Latin interpreter, who (as it seemeth) was a Grecian, and therefore useth gladly many Greek terms, doth yet translate this word almost twice as often senior, or major natu, as he doth presbyter, when he speaketh of the ministers of the gospel. How the ancient writers applied unto them improperly the name of "sacrificer," as unto the sacrament the name of "oblation" or " sacrifice," I have spoken already sufficiently. Our translation therefore is nothing like your vain supposal of new-fangled companions, which to deny "apostles," "angels," and "baptism," would turn the words into "legates," "messengers," and "washing." Whereas we have no purpose to deny any office or function of the church appointed by Christ, but to distinguish in name, as his Spirit in the scriptures doth always, the sacrificers of the Old Testament from the ministers of the New Testament. The word clerus, 1 Pet. v. which we translate "parish" or "heritage," yourselves in your notes of that place confess to comprehend in signification "all Christians," which you are not able to prove, that in St Peter's time it was transferred unto the "college of ecclesiastical ministers," as Beza saith it was afterward: wherefore it is one of your accustomed slanders, to say we translate it so of purpose to take away MARTIN, 28. Chap. vi. FULKE, 28. all distinction of clergy and laity; when all men know, that wheresoever our churches are established, we retain the distinction, and so think it necessary always. Martin. But, alas! the effect of this corruption and heresy concerning priests, hath it not wrought within these few years such contempt of all priests, that nothing is more odious in our country than that name; which before was so honourable and venerable, and now is among all good men? If "ministry" or "eldership" were grown to estimation instead thereof, somewhat they had to say: but that is yet more contemptible, and especially "elders" and "eldership;" for the queen's majesty and her councillors will permit none in government of any church in England; and so they have brought all to nothing else but profane laity. And no marvel of these horrible inconveniences: for as the sacrifice and priesthood go together, and therefore were both honourable together; so when they had, according to Daniel's prophecy, abolished the daily sacrifice out of the church, what remained, but the contempt of priests and clergy, and their offices? so far forth, that for the holy sacrifice' sake priests are called in great despite "massing priests," of them that little consider, or less care, what notable holy learned fathers of all ages since Christ's time this their reproach toucheth and concerneth, as by the testimonies before alleged is manifest, and whereof the reader may see a peculiar chapter in the late Apology of the English Seminaries. Fulke. A marvellous corruption, for us to call them "elders," whom you in your translation call "ancients," and the vulgar Latin before us both called seniores! But what is come to pass, I pray you, by this wonderful corruption? The name of "popish priests" is so contemptible, that nothing is more odious in England. And good cause, why; both for their blasphemy against God, and traitorous practices against the honourable state of the realm, and our most gracious queen. But " elders" and "eldership" (you ween) is more contemptible, because "the queen's majesty and her councillors will permit none in government of any churches in England, and so they have brought all to nothing else, but 'profane laity.'" This traitorous slander of yours is as true as all the rest: for although the queen's majesty and the council do not permit such consistories of elders for only discipline and government, as be in some other churches; yet do they not only permit, but also maintain and reverence such elders, being signified by the Greek word πρεσβύτεροι, as are necessary for the government of the church in doctrine, sacraments, and discipline, to the salva tion of God's people. The daily sacrifice mentioned in Daniel was the morning and evening sacrifice of the old law, whereunto your blasphemous sacrifice of the mass hath no resemblance. You may not therefore look to recover the credit of massing priests by that sacrifice, which, being once instituted by God, was at length taken away by the only sacrifice of Christ's death; against which all the apologies in the world shall never be able to defend your massing priesthood. As for the chapter of Allen's Apology, whereunto you refer us, [it] containeth certain quotations, and a few sentences of the ancient writers, which have been answered an hundred times, to justify massing priests; but all in vain: for never shall he prove that any one, from the eldest which he named unto Beda, which is the youngest, was such a massing priest in all points, as those traitors are, which by the queen's laws and edict are proscribed and prohibited: I mean not, for their manners, but for their mass and all opinions incident thereunto. MARTIN, 1. Calvin's In stitutiors, lib. 2. c. 16. sect. 10. and in his Catechism. FULKE, 1. CHAPTER VII. Heretical Translation against Purgatory, Limbus Patrum, Martin. HAVING now discovered their corrupt translations for defacing of the church's name, and abolishing of priest and priesthood; let us come to another point of very great importance also, and which, by the wonted consequence or sequel of error, includeth in it many erroneous branches. Their principal malice then being bent against purgatory, that is, against a place where christian souls be purged by suffering of temporal pains after this life, for surer maintenance of their erroneous denial hereof they take away and deny all third places, saying that there was never from the beginning of the world any other place for souls after this life, but only two; to wit, heaven for the blessed, and hell for the damned. And so it followeth by their heretical doctrine, that the patriarchs, prophets, and other good holy men of the Old Testament, went not after their deaths to the place called "Abraham's bosom," or limbus patrum, but immediately to heaven: and so again by their erroneous doctrine it followeth, that the fathers of the Old Testament were in heaven before our Saviour Christ had suffered death for their redemption; and also by their erroneous doctrine it followeth, that our Saviour Christ was not the first man that ascended and entered into heaven; and moreover by their heretical doctrine it followeth, that our Saviour Christ descended not into any such third place, to deliver the fathers of the Old Testament out of their prison, and to bring them triumphantly with him into heaven, because by their erroneous doctrine they were never there; and so that article of the apostles' creed concerning our saviour Christ's descending into hell, must either be put out by the Calvinists, as Beza did in his confession of his faith, printed anno 1564; or it hath some other meaning, to wit, either the lying of his body in the grave, or (as Calvin and the purer Calvinists, his scholars, will have it) the suffering of hell pains and distresses upon the cross. Lo the consequence and coherence of these errors and heresies! Fulke. We may be bold to say with St Augustine, We believe, according to the authority of God, that the kingdom of heaven is the first place appointed for God's elect, and that hell is the second place, where all the reprobate, and such as be not of the faith of Christ, shall suffer eternal punishment. Tertium penitus ignoramus, imo nec esse in scripturis sanctis invenimus: "The third |