St John (you say), speaking to the converted gentiles, biddeth them beware of the idols, from whence they were converted. That is true, but not only from them, but from all other idols. Except perhaps you think, that Christians by that text should not abhor the images of Simon Magus, and Selene, and the images of the Valentinians, and Gnosticks, and other hereticks, which worshipped the image of Christ Irenæus, lib. and of St Paul, as Irenæus' and Epiphanius" do testify. And 1. cap. 20. 23, 24. Epiphanius, lib. 1. Tom. 11. H. 27. it seemeth, you so think in deed. For you say soon after, "He [Contemnere autem et idolothyta, et nihil arbitrari, sed sine aliqua trepidatione uti eis: habere autem et reliquarum operationum usum indifferentem, et universæ libidinis. Utuntur autem et hi magia, et imaginibus, et incantoribus, et invocationibus, et reliqua universa periergia: nomina quoque quædam affingentes quasi angelorum, annuntiant hos quidem esse in primo cœlo, hos autem in secundo; et deinceps nituntur CCCLXV. ementitorum cœlorum et nomina, et principia, et angelos, et virtutes exponere. Irenæi, Lib. 1. cap. 23. Opera, p. 102. edit. Venet. 1734.] [* Τί δὲ ἄλλο ἢ πᾶσαν ἀῤῥητουργίαν καὶ τὴν ἀθέμιτον πρᾶξιν ἣν οὐ θεμιτὸν ἐπὶ στόματος φέρειν, οὗτοι πράττουσι; καὶ πᾶν εἶδος ἀνδροβασιῶν, καὶ λαγνιστέρων ὁμιλιῶν πρὸς γυναῖκας ἐν ἑκάστῳ μέρει σώματος, μαγείας τε καὶ φαρμακείας καὶ εἰδωλολατρείας ἐκτελοῦντες. Epiphan. adv. Hær. Lib. 1. Tom. 11. 27. Opera, p. 105. edit. Paris. 1622.] [ De Corona. edit. de la Cerda. p. 678.] custodite vos a simulacris, which is all one, as if he should have said ab imaginibus, (as I have plentifully proved,) "Children, keep yourselves from images." As for the purpose you pretend to have in honouring Christ by images, contrary to his commandment, is indeed nothing but dishonouring of him and destruction of yourselves. W. Fulke, Martin. But the gay confuter with whom I began, saith for further MARTIN, answer, "Admit that in some of our translations it be, Children, 14. keep yourselves from images,' (for so he would have said, if it were fol. 35. truly printed) what great crime of corruption is here committed?" And when it is said again, this is the crime and fault thereof, that they mean by so translating to make the simple believe that idols and images are all one, which is absurd; he replieth, "that it is no more absurdity, than instead of a Greek word to use a Latin of the same signification." And upon this position he granteth that, according to the property of the Greek word, a man may say, "God made man according to his Gen. i. idol," and that generally idolum may as truly be translated an image,” κατὰ τὴν as Tyrannus, a "king," (which is very true, both being absurd;) and here he cited many authors and dictionaries idly, to prove that idolum elowλov. may signify the same that image. εἰκόνα. εἰκών. 14. Fulke. But this scornful replier, with whom I have FULKE, to do, is so accustomed to false and unhonest dealing, that he can never report any thing that I have written truly, and as I have written, but with one forgery or another he will clean corrupt and pervert my saying. As here he shameth nothing to affirm, that I grant that, according to the property of the Greek word, a man may say, God made man according to his idol. I will report mine own words, by which every man may perceive how honestly he dealeth with me: "But admit that in some translation it be as you say, 'Children, keep yourselves from images: what great crime of corruption is here committed? You say, that it is to make simple men believe that idols and images are all one, which is absurd. This is no more absurdity, than instead of a Greek word to use a Latin of the same signification. But you reply, that then, where Moses saith that God made man according to his own image, we should consequently say, that God made man according to his idol. I answer, howsoever the name of idols in the English tongue, for the great dishonour that is done to God in worshipping of images, MARTIN, 15. Rom. viii. 1 Cor. xv. Imaginem. 2 Cor. iii. Heb. x. Col. i. 2 Cor. iv. is become so odious that no christian man would say, that God made man according to his idol, no more than a good subject would call his lawful prince 'a tyrant,' yet according to the Greek word, eidwλov may be as truly translated an image, as Túpavvos a king." Here, if I were disposed to give the rein to affection, as you do often, being unprovoked by me, were sufficient occasion offered to insult against your falsehood. But I will forbear, and in plain words tell you, that if you be so simple, that you cannot understand the difference of these two propositions, edwλov, wheresoever it is read in Greek, may be truly translated "an image ;" and this, wheresoever the word image is used in English, you may use the word idol; you are unmeet to read a divinity lecture in England, howsoever you be advanced in Rhemes. If not of ignorance, but of malice, you have perverted both my words and meaning, let God and all godly men be judge between you and me. My words are not obscure nor ambiguous, but that every child may understand my meaning to be no more but this, that this English word idol is by use restrained only to wicked images. The Greek word eidwλov signifieth generally all images, as Túpavvos did all kings, until kings, that were so called, became hateful for cruelty, which caused even the name tyrannus to be odious. Martin. But I beseech you, Sir, if the dictionaries tell you that εἴδωλον may, by the original property of the word, signify "an image," (which no man denieth,) do they tell you also, that you may commonly and ordinarily translate it so, as the common usual signification thereof? or do they tell you that "image" and "idol" are so all one, that wheresoever you find this word "image," you may truly call it "idol"? For these are the points that you should defend in your answer. For an example, do they teach you to translate in these places thus? "God hath predestinated us to be made conformable to the idol of his Son." And again, "As we have borne the idol of the earthly (Adam,) so let us bear the idol of the heavenly" (Christ). And again, "We are transformed into the same idol, even as our Lord's spirit." And again, "The law having a shadow of the good things to come, not the very idol of the things.” And again, “Christ who is the idol of the invisible God." Is this, I pray you, a true translation? Yea, say you, according to the property of the word: but "because the name of idols in the English tongue, for the great dishonour done to God in worshipping of images, is become odious, no christian man would say so." Fulke. 15. No man denieth (you say) that eldwλov may, FULKE, by the original propriety of the word, signify an image. It is well, that being convicted by all dictionaries, old and new, you will at length yield to the truth. But you demand, whether the dictionaries do tell me that I may commonly and ordinarily translate it so, as the common usual signification thereof. Sir, I meddle only with the translations of the scripture; and the dictionaries tell me that so it usually signifieth, and therefore so I may translate in the scripture, or any other ancient Greek writer, that useth the word according to the original propriety thereof. Peradventure some later Greek writers, restraining it only to wicked images, may so use the term, as the general signification thereof will not agree to the meaning in some odd place or other. But that is no matter to plead against our translation of the scripture, when in that time it was written the word was indifferent, to signify any image. Further than this, you ask of me, if the dictionaries do tell me, that image and idol are all one, and wheresoever I find the word imago, I may truly call it idol? No, forsooth, Sir, they teach me no such thing: neither do I say that the word image and idol may be confounded; but the clean contrary, if your mastership had not mistaken me, because it was not your pleasure to take me either according to my words, or according to my meaning. Why, Sir, "these are the points you should defend in your answer: for an example, do they teach you to translate in these places thus, 'God hath predestinated us to be made conformable to the idol of his Son'? and again, 'We have borne the idol of the earthly,' &c." I pray you, Sir, pardon me to defend that I never said nor thought: you yourself confess in the end, that I say, that no christian man would say so: wherefore when you say that I affirm, this is a true translation according to the propriety of the word; can I say less? Then you lie like a popish hypocrite. Martin. First, note how foolishly and unadvisedly he speaketh here, MARTIN, because he would confound images and idols, and make them falsely 16. to signify one thing: when he saith the name of "idol" is become odious in the English tongue because of worshipping of images, he should have said, the dishonour done to God in worshipping idols made the FULKE, 16. name of idols odious. As in his own example of "tyrant" and "king," he meant to tell us that "tyrant" sometime was an usual name for every king; and because certain such tyrants abused their power, therefore the name of tyrant became odious. For he will not say, I trow, that for the fault of kings the name of tyrant became odious. Likewise the Romans took away the name of Manlius for the crime of one Manlius, not for the crime of John at Nokes, or of any other name. The name of Judas is so odious, that men now commonly are not so called. Why so? because he that betrayed Christ was called Judas; not because he was also Iscariot. The very name of "ministers” is odious and contemptible. Why? because ministers are so lewd, wicked, and unlearned ; not because some priests be naught. Even so the name of "idol" grew to be odious, because of the idols of the Gentiles, not because of holy images. For if the reverence done by Christians to holy images were evil, (as it is not,) it should in this case have made the name of images odious, and not the name of idols. But, God be thanked! the name of images is no odious name among catholic Christians, but only among heretics and image-breakers, such as the second general council of Nice hath condemned therefore with the sentence of anathema: no more than the cross is odious, which to all good Christians is honourable, because our Saviour Christ died on a cross. Fulke. Nay, first note how falsely, and then how foolishly, and yet how impudently, he continueth a slander against me of his own devising, that I would confound those English words, "images" and "idols." For first he will teach me to speak English, that where I said the name of idol is become odious in the English tongue, because of worshipping of images, I should have said, "the dishonour done to God in worshipping of idols made the name of idols odious." And what, I pray you, were those idols, the worshipping of which made the name odious, but images? May I not be so bold, under your correction, to use the general name images, which you say are not idols, until they be abused? When the image of Jupiter, king of Crete, was first made, and nothing else done unto it, would you call it an image, or an idol? Sure I am, you called the brasen serpent first an image, and then an idol. Even so I trust I may, without offence of Englishmen, say, that the abuse of images, called first without note of infamy eidwλa, "idols," made the name of idols to be odious, and therefore not applied, but to such abused images: and the example I brought of tyrannus, which first did signify a king, is very plain and like, but that you are disposed |