of the words, he might seem to such as do not attain unto his meaning, that he preferred the church far before the gospel, and that the church hath a free authority over the same; but that godly man never thought so. It were a saying worthy to be brought forth against the Anabaptists, who think the open ministry to be a thing not necessary, if they any thing esteemed such testimonies. I would not stick to affirm, that the more part of the great house, that is to say, of the whole universal church, may easily err. And again, I would not stick to affirm, that it is one thing to be gathered together in the name of Christ, and another thing to come together with a mass of the Holy Ghost going before. For in the first, Christ ruleth, in the latter the devil beareth the swing; and how then can any thing be good that they go about? From this latter shall our six articles come forth again into the light, they themselves being very darkness. But it is demanded whether the sounder or better part of the catholic church may be seen of men, or not? St. Paul saith, 'The Lord knoweth them that are his.' What manner of speaking is this in commendation of the Lord, if we knew as well as he who are his? Well, thus is the text: The foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, the Lord knoweth them that are his; and let every man that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.' Now how many are there of the whole popish church of England, who depart from iniquity? How many of the noblemen, how many of the bishops or clergy, how many of the rich men, or merchants, how many of the queen's councillors, yea, how many of the whole realm? In how small room then, I pray you, is the true church within the realm of England? And where is it? And in what state? I had a conceit of mine own well grounded, as they say, when I began, but now it is fallen by the way."

Objection.

"General councils represent the universal church, and have this promise of Christ: Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.' If Christ be present with two or three, then much more where there is so great a multitude, &c. But in general councils mass hath been approved and used: Therefore, &c."

Answer.

Ridley." Of the universal church, which is mingled of good and bad, thus I think: Whenever they who are chief in it, who rule and govern the same, and to whom the whole mystical body of Christ doth obey, are the lively members of Christ, and walk after the guiding and rule of his word, and go before the flock towards everlasting life, then undoubtedly councils gathered together of such guides and pastors of the christian flock, do indeed represent the universal church, and being so gathered in the name of Christ, they have a promise of the gift and guidance of his Spirit into all truth. But that any such council hath at any time allowed the mass, such an one as ours was of late, in a strange tongue, and stuffed with so many absurdities, errors, and superstitions; that I utterly deny and affirm it to be impossible. For like as there is no agreement betwixt light and darkness, between Christ and Belial; so surely superstition and the sincere religion of Christ, will-worship and the pure worshipping of God, such as God requireth of his, that is, in spirit and in truth, can never agree together. But ye will say, where so great a company is gathered together, it is not credible but there will be two or three gathered in the name of Christ. I answer-if there be one hundred good, and two hundred bad (forasmuch as the decrees and ordinances are pronounced according to the greater number of the multitude of voices) what can the less number of voices avail? It is a known thing, and a common proverb, oftentimes the greater part overcometh the better."

Latimer."As touching general councils, at this present I have no more to say than you have said. Only I refer you to your own experience, to think of our coun

try parliaments and convocations, how and what ye have seen and heard. The more part in my time did bring forth the six articles; for then the king would so have it, being seduced of certain. Afterward, the more part did repel the same, our good Josiah willing to have it so. The same articles now again, alas! another great, but worse part, hath restored. Oh! what an uncertainty is this? But after this sort most commonly are man's proceedings, God be merciful unto us! Who shall deliver us from such torments of mind? Therefore is death the best physician, unto the faithful, whom she together and at once delivereth from all griefs. You must think this written upon this occasion, because you would needs have your paper blotted."

Objection.

"If the matter should go thus, that in general councils men should not stand to the more number of the multitude (I mean of them who ought to give voices) then should no certain rule be left unto the church, by the which controversies in weighty matters might be determined; but it is not to be believed, that Christ would leave his church destitute of so necessary a help and safeguard."

Answer.

Ridley." Christ, who is the most loving spouse of his church, who also gave himself for it, that he might sanctify it unto himself, did give unto it abundantly all things which are necessary unto salvation; but yet so, that the church should declare itself obedient unto him in all things, and keep itself within the bounds of his commandments, and further not to seek any thing which he teacheth not, as necessary unto salvation. Now further, for determination of all controversies in Christ's reli. gion, Christ himself hath left unto the church not only Moses and the prophets, whom he directs his church in all doubts to go unto, and ask counsel at, but also the gospels, and the rest of the body of the New Testament; in which whatsoever is heard of Moses and the prophets, and whatsoever is necessary to be known unto salvation, is revealed and opened. So that now we have no need to say, Who shall climb up into heaven, or who shall go down into the depth, to tell us what is needful to be done? Christ hath done both, and hath commended unto us the word of faith, which also is abundantly declared unto us in his written word; so that hereafter if we walk earnestly in this way, to the searching out of the truth, it is not to be doubted, but through the certain benefit of Christ's spirit, which he hath promised unto his, we may find it, and obtain everlasting life. Should men ask counsel of the dead for the living? saith Isaiah. Let them go rather to the law and to the testimony, &c. Christ sends them who are desirous to know the truth, unto the scriptures, saying, 'Search the scriptures.' I remember a like thing well spoken by Jerome: 'Ignorance of the scriptures, is the mother and cause of all errors.' And in another place, as I remember in the same author: The knowledge of the scriptures, is the food of everlasting life.' But now, methinks, I enter into a very broad sea, in that I begin to shew, either out of the scriptures themselves, or out of the ancient writers, how much the holy scripture is of force to teach the truth of our religion. But this it is, that I am now about, that Christ would have the church, his spouse, in all doubts to ask counsel at the word of his Father, written, and faithfully left, and commended unto it in both Testaments, the Old and New. Neither do we read, that Christ in any place hath laid so great a burthen upon the members of his spouse, that he hath commanded them to go to the universal church. Whatsoever things are written,' saith St. Paul, are written for our learning.' And it is true that Christ gave unto his church, some apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, to the edifying of the saints, till we all come to the unity of the faith, &c. But that all men should meet together out of all parts of the world, to define the articles of our faith, I neither find it commanded of Christ, nor written in the word of God.

Latimer. "There is diversity between things pertaining to God or faith, and politic and civil matters. For in the first we must stand only to the scriptures, which are able to make us all perfect and instructed unto salvation, if they are well understood. And they offer themselves to be well understood only to them, who have good wills, and give themselves to study and prayer. Neither are there any men less apt to understand them, than the prudent and wise men of the world. But in the other, that is, in civil or politic matters, oftentimes the magistrates do tolerate a less evil, for avoiding of a greater, as they who have this saying oft in their mouths; Better an inconvenience than a mischief.' And it is the property of a wise man, saith one, To dissemble many things; and he that cannot dissemble, cannot rule.' In which sayings they betray themselves, that they do not earnestly weigh what is just, and what is not. Wherefore forasmuch as man's laws, if it be but in this respect only, that they are devised by men, are not able to bring any thing to perfection, but are forced of necessity to suffer many things out of order, and are compelled sometimes to wink at the worst things seeing they know not how to maintain the common peace and quiet otherwise, they do ordain that the more part shall take place. You know what these kinds of speeches mean, I speak after the manner of men.' 'You walk after the manner of men.' 'All men are liars.' And that of St. Augustine, If ye live after man's reason, ye do not live after the will of God.'"'

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How many

Ridley." From may be, to be indeed, is no good argument; but from being, to may be, no man doubteth but it is a most sure argument. But now that councils have sometimes erred, it is manifest. How many councils were there in the eastern parts of the world, who condemned the Nicene council? and all those who would not forsake the same, they called by a slanderous name (as they thought) Homousians. Were not Athanasius, Chrysostom, Cyril, Eustachius, men very well learned, and of godly life, banished and condemned as famous heretics, and that by wicked councils? things are there in the canons and constitutions of the councils, which the papists themselves do much dislike? But here, peradventure one man will say unto me; 'We will grant you this in provincial councils, or councils of some one nation, that they may sometimes err, forasmuch as they do not represent the universal church; but it is not to be believed, that the general and full councils have erred at any time.' Here, if I had my books of the councils, or rather such notes as I have gathered out of those books, I could bring something which should serve for this purpose. But now seeing I have them not, I will recite one place only out of St. Augustine, which (in my judgment,) may suffice in this matter instead of many. Who knoweth not,' saith he, that the holy scripture is so set before us, that it is not lawful to doubt of it, and that the letters of bishops may be reproved by other men's words, and by councils, and that the councils themselves, who are gathered by provinces and countries, do give place to the authority of the general and full councils; and that the former and general councils are amended by the latter, when as by some experience of things, either that which was shut up is opened, or that which was hid, is known?' Thus much out of St. Augustine. But I will plead with our Antonian, upon matter confessed. Here with us when as papistry reigned, I pray you how doth that book, which was called the bishops' book, made in the time of King Henry the Eighth, whereof the bishop of Winchester is thought to be either the first father, or chief gatherer; how doth it, I say, sharply reprove the Florentine council, in which was decreed the supremacy of

the bishop of Rome, and that with the consent of the emperor of Constantinople, and of the Grecians? So that in those days our learned ancient fathers and bishops of England did not stick to affirm, that a general council might err. But methinks I hear another man despising all that I have brought forth, and saying, these which you have called councils, are not worthy to be called councils, but rather assemblies, and conventicles of heretics. I pray you, sir, why do you judge them worthy of so slanderous a name? Because, saith he, they decree things heretical, contrary to true godliness and sound doctrine, and against the faith of Christian religion. The cause is weighty, for which they ought of right so to be called. But if it be so that all councils ought to be despised, which decree any thing contrary to sound doctrine, and the true word, which is according to godliness; forasmuch as the mass, such as we had here of late, is openly against the word of God, therefore it must follow of necessity, that all such councils as have approved such masses, ought of right to be avoided and despised, as conventicles and assemblies of men that stray from the truth. Another man allegeth unto me the authority of the bishop of Rome, without which, neither can the councils, saith he, be lawfully gathered, neither being gathered determine any thing concerning religion. But this objection is only grounded upon the ambitious and shameless maintenance of the Romish tyranny and usurped dominion over the clergy; which tyranny we Englishmen long ago, by the consent of the whole realm, have expelled and abjured. And how rightly we have done it, a little book set forth de utraque potestate (that is, of both the powers) doth clearly shew. I grant that the Romish ambition hath gone about to challenge to itself and to usurp such a privilege of old time. But the council of Carthage, in the year 417, did openly withstand it, and also the council at Milevia, in which St. Augustine was present, did prohibit any appellations to be made to bishops beyond the sea.'

Objection.

"St. Augustine saith, the good men are not to be forsaken for the evil, but the evil are to be borne withal for the good. Ye will not say, I trow, that in our congregations all be evil."

Answer.

Ridley."I speak nothing of the goodness or wickedness of your congregations; but I fight in Christ's quarrel against the mass, which doth utterly take away and overthrow the ordinance of Christ. Let that be taken quite away, and then the partition of the wall that made the strife, shall be broken down. Now as to the place of St. Augustine, for bearing with the evil for the good's sake, there ought to be added other words, which the same writer hath expressed in other places; that is, if those evil men do cast abroad no seeds of false doctrine, nor lead others to destruction by their example."

Objection.

"It is perilous to attempt any new thing in the church, which lacketh example of good men. How much more perilous is it to commit any act, unto which the example of the prophets, of Christ, and of the apostles are contrary? But unto this your act, in abstaining from the church by reason of the mass, the example of the prophets, of Christ, and of the apostles are clean contrary: Therefore, &c. the first part of the argument is evident, and the second part I prove thus. In the times of the prophets, of Christ, and his apostles, all things were most corrupt. The people were miserably given to superstition, the priests despised the law of God; and yet, notwithstanding, we read not that the prophets made any schisms or divisions, and Christ himself frequented the temple, and taught in the temple of the Jews. St. Peter and St. John went up into the temple at the ninth hour of prayer; St. Paul after the reading of the law, being desired to say something to the people, did not refuse to do it. Yea, further, no man can shew, that either the prophets,

Answer.

Ridley." I grant the former part of your argument, and to the second part I say, that although it contain many true things, as of the corrupt state in the times of the prophets, of Christ, and the apostles, and of the temple being frequented by Christ and his apostles; yet notwithstanding, the second part of your argument is not sufficiently proved. For you ought to have proved, that either the prophets, either Christ or his apostles, did in the temple communicate with the people in any kind of worshipping, which is forbidden by the law of God, or repugnant to the word of God. But that can nowhere be shewed. And as for the church, I am not angry with it, and I never refused to go to it, and to pray with the people, to hear the word of God, and to do all other things whatsoever may agree with the word of God. St. Augustine, speaking of the ceremonies of the Jews, (I suppose in the epistle ad Januarium) although he grants they grievously oppressed that people, both for the number, and bondage of the same, yet he calleth them burdens of the law, which were delivered unto them in the word of God, not presumption of men, which, notwithstanding, if they were not contrary to God's word, might after a sort be borne withal. But now, seeing they are contrary to those things which are written in the word of God, whether they ought to be borne of any Christian or not, let him judge who is spiritual, who feareth God more than man, and loveth everlasting life more than this short and transitory life. To that which was said, that my act lacketh example of the godly fathers that have gone before, the contrary is most evident in the history of Tobias: of whom it is said, that when all others went to the golden calves, which Jeroboam the king of Israel had made, he himself alone fled all their companies, and got him to Jerusalem unto the temple of the Lord, and there worshipped the Lord God of Israel. Did not the man of God threaten grievous plagues both unto the priests of Bethel, and to the altar which Jeroboam had there made after his own fantasy? Which plagues King Josias, the true minister of God, did execute at the time appointed. And where do we read, that the prophets or the apostles did agree with the people in their idolatry, when the people went a whoring with their hill altars? For what cause, I pray you, did the prophets rebuke the people so much, as for their false worshipping of God after their own minds, and not after God's word? For what was so much as that was? Wherefore the false prophets ceased not to malign the true prophets of God: therefore they beat them, they banished them, &c. How else, I pray you, can you understand what St. Paul allegeth, when he saith, what concord hath Christ with Belial? Either what part hath the believer with the infidel? or how agreeth the temple of God with images? For you are the temple of the living God, as God himself hath said; "I will dwell among them, and will be their God, and they shall be my people." Wherefore, come out from among them, and separate yourselves from them, saith the Lord, and touch no unclean thing; so will I receive you, and will be a father unto you, and you shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. Judith, that holy woman, would not suffer herself to be defiled with the meats of the wicked. All the saints of God, who truly feared God, when they have been provoked to do any thing which they knew to be contrary to God's laws, have chosen to die, rather than to forsake the laws of their God. Wherefore the Maccabees put themselves in danger of death for the defence of the law, yea, and at length died manfully in the defence of the same. If we do praise, saith St. Augustine, the Maccabees, and that with great admiration, because they did stoutly stand even unto death, for the law of their country; how much more ought we to suffer all things for our baptism, for the sacrament of the body and blood of Christ, &c.? But the supper of the Lord, such a one, (I mean), as

Latimer.-"Who am I, that I should add any thing to this which you have so spoken? Nay, I rather thank you that have vouchsafed to minister so plentiful armour to me, being otherwise altogether unarmed, saving that he cannot be left destitute of help, who rightly trusteth in the help of God. I only learn to die in reading of the New Testament, and am ever now and then praying unto my God, that he will be an helper unto me in time of need."

Objection.

"Seeing you are so obstinately set against the mass, that you affirm, because it is done in a tongue not understood of the people, and for other causes, I cannot tell what, therefore is it not the true sacrament ordained of Christ? I begin to suspect you, that you think not catholickly of baptism also. Is our baptism, which we do use in a tongue unknown unto the people, the true baptism of Christ, or not? If it be, then doth not the strange tongue hurt the mass. If it be not the baptism of Christ, tell me how were you baptized. Or whether will you, as the Anabaptists do, that all who were baptized in Latin, should be baptized again in the English tongue ?"

Answer.

Ridley." Although I would wish baptism to be given in the vulgar tongue, for the people's sake who are present, that they may the better understand their own profession, and also be more able to teach their children the same, yet notwithstanding there is not like necessity of the vulgar tongue in baptism, as in the Lord's Supper. Baptism is given to children, who, by reason of their age, are not able to understand what is spoken unto them, what tongue soever it be. The Lord's Supper is, and ought to be given to them that are of age. Moreover, in baptism, which is accustomed to be given to children in the Latin tongue, all the substantial points, as a man would say, which Christ commanded to be done, are observed. And therefore I judge that baptism to be a perfect and true baptism; and that it is not only not needful, but also not lawful for any man so christened, to be christened again. But yet, notwithstanding, they ought to be taught the catechism of the christian faith, when they shall come to years of discretion; which catechism whosoever despiseth, or will not desirously embrace and willingly learn, in my judgment he playeth not the part of a christian man. But in the popish mass are wanting certain substantials, that is to say, things commanded by the word of God to be observed in the ministration of the Lord's Supper; of which there is sufficient declaration made before."

Latimer.-"Where you say, 'I would wish,' surely I would wish that you had spoken more vehemently, and to have said, it is of necessity, that all things in the congregation should be done in the vulgar tongue, for the edifying and comfort of them that are present, notwithstanding that the child itself is sufficiently baptized in the Latin tongue."

Objection.

"Forasmuch as I perceive you are so stiffly, I will not say obstinately bent, and so wedded to your opinion, that no gentle exhortations, no wholesome counsels, no other kind of means can call you home to a better mind, there remains that which in like cases was wont to be the only remedy against stiff-necked and stubborn persons, that is, you must be hampered by the laws, and compelled either to obey whether you will or not, or else to suffer that which a rebel to the laws ought to suffer. Do you not know that whosoever refuseth to obey the laws of the realm, he betrayeth himself to be an enemy to his country? Do you not know that this is the readiest way to stir up sedition and civil war? it is better that you should bear your own sin, than that, through the example of your breach of the common laws, the common quiet

should be disturbed. How can you say you will be the queen's true subject, when you do openly profess that you will not keep her laws?"

Answer.

Ridley." O, Heavenly Father, the Father of all wisdom, understanding, and true strength, I beseech thee, for thy only Son our Saviour Christ's sake, look mercifully upon me, wretched creature, and send thine Holy Spirit into my breast, that not only I may understand according to thy wisdom, how this pestilent and deadly dart is to be borne off, and with what answer it is to be beaten back, but also when I must join to fight in the field for the glory of thy name, that then I, being strengthened with the defence of thy right hand, may manfully stand in the confession of thy faith, and of thy truth, and continue in the same unto the end of my life, through the same our Lord Jesus Christ! Amen.

"Now to the objection. I grant it to be reasonable, that he who by words and gentleness cannot be made to yield to what is right and good, should be bridled by the straight correction of the laws; that is to say, he that will not be subject to God's word, must be punished by the laws. It is true, what is commonly said, he that will not obey the gospel, must be tamed and taught by the rigour of the law. But these things ought to take place against him, who refuseth to do what is right and just according to true godliness, not against him, who cannot quietly bear superstitions, but doth hate and detest from his heart such kind of proceedings, and that for the glory of the name of God. To that which you say, a transgressor of the common laws betrayeth himself to be an enemy of his country, surely a man ought to look unto the nature of the laws, what manner of laws they are which are broken. For a faithful chris. tian ought not to think alike of all manner of laws. But that saying ought only truly to be understood of such laws as are not contrary to God's word. Otherwise, whosoever love their country in truth, that is to say, in God, they will always judge if at any time the laws of God and man be contrary the one to the other, that a man ought rather to obey God than man. And they that think otherwise, and pretend a love to that country, forasmuch as they make their country to fight, as it were, against God, in whom consisteth the only stay of their country, surely I do think that such are to be judged most deadly enemies, and traitors to their country. For they that fight against God, who is the safety of their country, what do they else but go about to bring upon their country a present ruin and destruction? But they that do so are worthy to be judged enemies to their country, and betrayers of the realm. Therefore, &c.

can,

"But this is the readiest way, you say, to stir up sedition, to trouble the quiet of the commonwealth; therefore are these things to be repressed in time, by force of laws. Behold, Satan doth not cease to practise his old guiles, and accustomed subtleties. He hath ever this dart in readiness to hurl against his adversaries, to accuse them of sedition, that he may bring them, if he in danger of the higher powers. For so hath he by his minister always charged the prophets of God. Ahab said unto Elijah: Art thou he that troubleth Israel?' The false prophets also complained to their princes of Jeremiah, that his words were seditious, and not to be suffered. Did not the scribes and pharisees falsely accuse Christ as a seditious person, and one that spake against Cæsar? Did they not at the last cry: 'If you let this man go, ye are not Cæsar's friend?' The orator Tertullus: how doth he accuse St. Paul before Felix, the high deputy? We have found this man,' saith he, a pestilent fellow, and a stirrer up of sedition, unto all the Jews in the whole world,' &c. But I pray you were these men, as they were called, seditious persons, Christ, St. Paul, and the prophets? God forbid But they were of false men falsely accused. And wherefore, I pray you, but because they reproved before the people their guiles, superstition, and deceits? And when the other could not bear it, and would gladly have had them taken out of the way, they accused them as

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seditious persons, and troublers of the commonwealth, that being by this means made hateful to the people and princes, they might the more easily be snatched up to be tormented and put to death. But how far they were from all sedition, their whole doctrine, life, and conversation, doth well declare. For that which was objected last of all, that he cannot be a faithful subject to his prince, who professeth openly that he will not observe the laws which the prince hath made; here I would wish that I might have an impartial judge, and one that feareth God, to whose judgment in this cause I promise I will stand. I answer, therefore, a man ought to obey his prince, but in the Lord, and never against the Lord. For he that knowingly obeyeth his prince against God, doth not a duty to the prince, but is a deceiver of the prince, and an helper unto him to work his own destruction. He is also unjust, who giveth not to the prince what is the prince's, and to God what is God's. Here cometh to my remembrance, that notable saying of Valentinian, the emperor, for choosing the bishop of Milan: Set him,' saith he, in the bishop's seat, to whom if we, as man, do offend at any time, we may submit ourselves.' Polycarp, the most constant martyr, when he stood before the chief rulers, and was commanded to blaspheme Christ, and to swear by the fortune of Cæsar, &c. he answered with a mild spirit: 'We are taught,' saith he, to give honour unto princes; and those powers which are of God; but such honour as is not contrary to God's religion.'

"Hitherto you see, good father, how I have in words only made, as it were, a flourish before the fight, which I shortly look after, and how I have begun to prepare certain kinds of weapons to fight against the adversary of Christ, and to muse with myself how the darts of the old enemy may be borne off, and after what sort I may smite him again with the sword of the Spirit. I learn also hereby to be used to the armour, and to assay how I can go armed. In Tindal, where I was born, not far from the Scottish borders, I have known my countrymen to watch night and day, in their harness, such as they had, that is, in their jacks, and their spears in their hand (you call them northern-gads), especially when they had any privy warning of the coming of the Scots. And so doing, although at every such bickering some of them spent their lives, yet by such means, like brave men, they defended their country. And those that so died, I think that before God they died in a good quarrel, and their offspring and progeny were beloved by all the country the better for their fathers' sake. And in the quarrel of Christ our Saviour, in the defence of his own divine ordinances, by which he giveth unto us life and immorta lity; yea, in the quarrel of faith and christian religion, wherein resteth our everlasting salvation, shall we not watch? shall we not go always armed, ever looking when our adversary, who, like a roaring lion seeketh whom he may devour, shall come upon us by reason of our slothfulness? yea, and woe be unto us, if he can oppress us unawares, which undoubtedly he will do, if he find us sleeping. Let us awake, therefore. For if the good man of the house knew at what hour the thief should come, he would surely watch, and not suffer his house to be broken up. Let us awake, therefore, I say. Let us not suffer our house to be broken up. Resist the devil,' saith St. James, and he will flee from you.' Let us, therefore, resist him manfully, and taking the cross upon our shoulders, let us follow our Captain, Christ, who by his own blood hath dedicated and hallowed the way which leadeth unto the Father, that is, to the light which no man can attain, the fountain of the everlasting joys. Let us follow, I say, whither he calleth and allureth us, that after these afflictions, which last but for a moment, whereby he trieth our faith, as gold in the fire, we may everlastingly reign and triumph with him in the glory of the Father, and that through the same our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ; to whom with the Father and the Holy Ghost, be all honour and glory, now and for ever. Amen, Amen.

"Good father, forasmuch as I have determined with myself, to pour forth these my cogitations into your bosom, here, methinks, I see you suddenly lifting up