32D CONG.....3D SESS. Special Session-United States Bonds Abroad. evidences of debt, held in Europe and other foreign countries, on the 30th June, 1853, specifying separately, so far as the same can be ascertained, the amount of each of the above description of bonds and stocks. CLERKS TO COMMITTEES. Mr. SHIELDS submitted the following resolution; which was considered by unanimous consent, and agreed to: Resolved, That the Secretary of the Senate pay such clerks of committees as have been employed during this extra session, the usual compensation for the time they may be so employed. EXECUTIVE SESSION. On motion by Mr. MASON, the Senate proceeded to the consideration of Executive business; and after about four hours and a half spent therein, the doors were reopened, And the Senate adjourned until Monday. MONDAY, April 4, 1853. Prayer by the Rev. J. G. BUTLER. PERSONAL EXPLANATION. Mr. GWIN. I ask the indulgence of the Senate for a few moments for the purpose of making a personal explanation in regard to what is published in one of the newspapers of this city as part of the report of the Committee on Frauds, &c. It is in reference to a statement made by a late Senator from New Hampshire [Mr. Hale] during the last session of Congress, in which he alleged that individuals outside of Congress had procured the passage of the law giving additional compensation to officers, seamen, and marines serving on the Pacific coast. When the Senator from New Hampshire made the statement-speaking for the Senate and the Naval Committee, to which the subject had been referred at an early period of the last Congress-I pronounced it false, because I knew it was false. I stated at the same time that the subject had been considered in committee at an early period of the first session of the last Congress, and the committee were unanimous in favor of granting the additional compensation, and I will now prove this fact by reading to the Senate the bill I reported on the 24th of February, 1852, six months before the naval appropriation bill was considered in that committee: "That the proper accounting officers of the Treasury be, and they are hereby, authorized and directed to allow to the officers, petty officers, seamen, and marines of the United States Navy who served in the Pacific ocean, on the coast of California and Mexico, dnring the late war with Mexico, such additional compensation as shall be equivalent to the amount of pay accruing to such officers, petty officers, seamen, and marines during the period aforesaid." This, Mr. President, was the deliberate action of the committee more than six months before the clause in the appropriation bill covering the same object was acted on in committee or in the Senate. One of the members of the committee [Mr. STOCKTON] had served on the coast of California; he had commanded the seamen and marines there who aided in the conquest of the country. A large portion of them were my constituents, and that distinguished Senator and myself took a special interest in the matter; and no person ever did approach us on the subject, directly or indirectly, nor, as I believe, any member of the committee. We considered that it was our duty to give this additional compensation to these gallant men, and we needed no prompting to induce us to perform that duty. Subsequently it was determined in committee, as there was a doubt if the bill passed the Senate whether it would be acted on in the other House, that an amendment should be offered to the naval appropriation bill whereby the officers, seamen, and marines who served on the coast of California would be placed on the same footing with the officers and soldiers of the army in service in California and Oregon by the act of 1850. Under the instructions of the committee, I did move the following amendment, which passed, but a single member of the Senate objecting to it: "That the proper accounting officers of the Treasury be, and they are hereby, authorized and directed to allow and pay, out of any money in the Treasury not otherwise appropriated, to the officers, petty officers, seamen, and marines of the United States Navy, and officers and men of the revenue service, who served in the Pacific ocean, on the coast of California and Mexico, during the late war with Mexico, and since that period, the same increased or additional compensation as has been by law directed to be paid to the officers and soldiers of the army who served in California." The Senator from Virginia [Mr. HUNTER] objected to it, but said that he was "willing to give SENATE. UNITED STATES BONDS ABROAD. The Senate proceeded to consider the following last: to them the additional pay, by taking the provis-resolution, submitted by Mr. BRODHEAD on Friday ion as it came from the House." I then read the clause in the Army appropriation bill of 1850, in these words: "For extra pay to the commissioned officers and enlisted men of the army of the United States serving in Oregon or California, $325,854, on the following basis, to wit: that there shall be allowed to each commissioned officer as aforesaid, whilst serving as aforesaid, a per diem, in addi tion to their regular pay and allowance of two dollars each: and to each enlisted man as aforesaid, whilst serving as aforesaid, a per diem, in addition to their present pay and allowances, equal to the pay proper of each as established by existing laws, said extra pay of the enlisted men to be retained until honorably discharged. This additional pay to continue until the 1st of March, 1852, or until otherwise provided." The Senator from Virginia then said: "I am willing to add the fifty per centum which we agreed to in relation to the Army. I have no idea that the House will agree to it." "Resolved, That the Secretary of the Treasury be required to procure, so far as practicable, and furnish the same to the Senate at the commencement of the next session of Congress, the following information, to wit: "The aggregate amount of Federal, State, city, county, railroad, canal, and other corporation bonds, stocks, or other evidences of debt, held in Europe and other foreign countries, on the 30th June, 1853, specifying separately, so far as the same can be ascertained, the mount of each of the above description of bonds and stocks." Mr. BRODHEAD. The information sought to be obtained by this resolution is important, and will be useful not only to the country, but to the Senate, in considering measures which may and probably will be brought forward at the next session proposing a revision of our revenue laws. It can be obtained with some degree of accuracy by circulars addressed by the Secretary of the Treasury to the Governors of States, presidents of rail This was the only opposition the proposition road and canal companies, executive officers of met with in the Senate. The Committee on Naval Affairs acted on this subject in February, 1852, when I reported the bill, a section of which I have read; which was, with a slight modification, to make it more acceptable to the House of Representatives, incorporated in the amendment to the naval appropriation bill; and therefore my statement in reply to the insinuation of the Senator from New Hampshire was strictly correct, that no outside influence induced the committee to act upon that matter. My remarks were made without having the slightest intimation that any particular individual was implicated in the remarks of the Senator from New Hampshire, for I had paid no attention to what he was saying until I was warned that he was attacking the Naval Committee. Subsequently I was called on by Mr. J. Knox Walker, and informed that he was the person alluded to by the Senator from New Hampshire. I recollected that he had exhibited some activity in regard to the amendment to the naval appropriation bill, but not by way of influencing the opinions of members of the committee, for those opinions had been known to the Senate month's before, on the bill which I have read. As to the particular wording of the amendment, or who drafted it, I was indifferent, if it covered the object of the committee. I had no especial recollection of Mr. Walker's action in the matter; and as he had prepared a statement of the facts which he had or said he was ready to verify by his affidavit, I indorsed its correctness, believing him to be a gentleman of veracity. This had not the slightest reference to the action of the committee, which had been matured more than six months before. The report of the Select Committee on Frauds says that I explained the "discrepancy" in my statements, by saying that I supposed, at the time when Mr. Hale made his remarks, that he alluded to another bill. The report of the committee does not state the facts correctly. There was no discrepancy in what I said in reply to Mr. Hale, and my indorsement of Mr. Walker's statement. The committee had acted upon the subject months before Mr. Walker pretends that he had any intercourse with any member of it in reference to the matter. We reported a bill, which was on our calendar. Did he cause us to report that bill? Did he ever approach a member of the committee when we were deliberating on the subject? It is not pretended that he did. We subsequently incorporated the substance of our bill in an amendment to the naval appropriation bill. In the action of Congress on this question at that period, in his statement he says he did take an active part, not to influence the Senate or its Naval Committee, for both were in favor of giving the increased compensation; but his labors seem to have been directed to the House of Representatives and the Committee of Conference. Neither he nor any other man ever induced the Naval Committee of the Senate, or any member of it, to adopt the principle that this additional compensation should be paid to the officers and seamen and marines who served on the Pacific coast. I merely make this statement that it may go upon the record, to show that there is no discrepancy in anything that I said on the subject. cities, and other municipal corporations, &c. The Federal and State indebtedness abroad can be ascertained with absolute certainty. Notwithstanding the large. importation of California gold, which I fear has done considerable to increase avarice and banish industry, we have contracted a large foreign debt, which is increasing with a fearful ratio of rapidity. The Legislatures of nearly all the States in the Union seem to be devising ways and means to get in debt. Many people and legislators seem to think the world can be legislated into the millennium, and wealth acquired by going in debt. I know this is a fast age, but I regret to see so many people endeavoring to get rich without industry, economy, or frugality-the life-giving principles of a Republic. In view of the speculating spirit of the country and the number of State and corporation bonds sold in Europe, it seems impossible to have anything like stability in our revenue laws. It seems to be impossible to make tariff laws which will stand against the ways of Providence, the course of commerce and trade, and the influence of a speculating mania. What is protection one year is none the next, and what is a revenue standard one year is none the next. I hope, therefore, in view of these and other considerations, that all will hereafter agree to take the subject out of the arena of party politics. and made some estimates, which I will proceed Mr. President, I have collected some statistics, briefly to exhibit to the Senate, for the purpose of showing our commercial and monetary relations with foreign countries, and the propriety of adopting the resolution under consideration. The value of imports into the United States during the fiscal year ending the 30th June, 1852, was.. . . . . . . $207,109,738 The value of exports was... .. . . .. . 166,967,490 Difference against United States..$40.142.248 The above are predicated on the official returns of the custom-houses, but they are of course only approximations to the facts of the case, as there are several deficient elements to insure their accuracy. The imports, for instance, are based on the invoices produced on entry at the custom-houses, and on which duty was levied, and therefore no allowance is made for frauds in undervalued invoices. What this item may amount to it is impossible to say, but I should think ten per cent. on the aggregate declared value would be a reasonable estimate. Nor does the above value of foreign imports embrace the actual smuggling of foreign fabrics, which on our lake and Mexican frontiers, and on the numerous rivers and bays on the Atlantic board, must be very considerable, and probably in the aggregate may amount to four or five millions of dollars. On the other side, the value of our exports is the cost at the shipping ports, and does not embrace the increased value which foreigners pay us for them delivered in their ports, which increased value consists of the freight so far as the merchandise has been conveyed in American vessels, insurance, profits, &c. It is, of course, impossible to arrive at anything like a correct estimate on the 32D CONG.....3D SESS. above points; but, after a good deal of examination and reflection on the subject, I have come to the conclusion that these uncertain items, connected with the imports and exports of the country, probably about balance each other, or, in other words, that the undervaluation of foreign invoices and the value of smuggled goods may be about an equal offset to the difference between the home valuation of our exports and the value which foreigners pay us for the latter delivered at their ports, with the addition of freight, insurance, profit, &c. On this basis, therefore, though the figures given by the custom-house returns may not be correct, yet the result is about the truth, and the real balance against us in our foreign trade for the last fiscal year may be stated at the above sum, or, in round numbers, say $40,000,000; for which we have provided by shipments of specie, or by the transfer and sale of stocks. The balance certainly cannot be less than the sum I have named, because many of our exported articles are taken in foreign vessels on foreign account. But this by no means exhibits the full balance that has been accumulated against us by foreigners during the last fiscal year. Our best informed citizens, and those most conversant with the subject, estimate our present in debtedness to foreigners, principally to Europe, in the shape of Federal, State, city, county, railroad, canal, and other corporation bonds and stocks, is, in the aggregate, not less than $300,000,000, which, at an interest of six per cent., would give an additional annual amount of $18,000,000 to be provided for. The expenditure of our citizens traveling in Europe has been estimated at as high as ten millions annually; but though this class of citizens are among the most wealthy, and make a lavish expenditure abroad, I think this amount is overestimated, and that five millions would be nearer the mark, and certainly does not exceed the actual outlay for that item. The maintenance of the navy on foreign stations, and the diplomatic expenditures, amount to about three millions more. The payment of the indemnity to Mexico under the treaty of peace has for the last few years involved an annual foreign expenditure of three millions more; but, the last of this indemnity having been paid, no future outlay on that score will be required. The remittances by our Irish immigrants to their friends in Ireland involve an amount which makes it an item of national importance. A late English paper states that the receipts from this source are equal to the whole of the poor rates of Ireland. There are large and wealthy firms in our sea-ports who make it a principal part of their business to furnish such parties with small bills of exchange, of from £1 to £5 sterling, for which they charge an extra rate, and realize a heavy profit. The remittances under this head will, at a very low estimate, be at least five millions of dollars per annum. Something considerable is also sent out by German and other immigrants. Against all these items of unrecorded outgoings, I know nothing incoming, except what money may be brought by immigrants, which probably may be estimated at ten millions of dollars per annum. The account current, then, of the United States for the last fiscal year with foreign countries will stand as follows: Special Session-Senate Debates. From present appearances, the probable balance of the current year will not be less, and is likely to be even more, which will make a further drain upon our gold and silver, and add a further amount to our foreign indebtedness by additional transmissions of stock, thus heaping up the European mortgage upon the future labor and earnings of the country. The prospect is anything but agreeable to contemplate. No wise or prudent man would, in my judgment, thus go in debt; nor do I think it sound policy or the true path of duty for a nation to do it. I think I see in this state of things, some of the symptoms, although not all, which preceded the break-down of 1840. For the reasons which I have stated, I hope the Senate will adopt the resolution. Mr. SEWARD. Not only shall I vote cheerfully for the resolution which has been submitted by the Senator, but I also thank him for introducing it. It will bring before the Senate and the country information which will be useful and may become even absolutely necessary. But, at the same time, lest by doing so I might be understood as in some way concurring in the rather somber views which he has taken, I wish barely to say that I do not see in the present state of our affairs anything to excite the apprehension of a speedy commercial revulsion. I know that commercial revulsions must come; and I know that all the circumstances of great commercial prosperity are to be regarded as frequently indicating the approach of a period of decline and disaster. But I think there is a mis-estimate in the statist The SENATE. derstood as expressing the opinion in the few remarks which I submitted, that anything like a commercial revulsion was to be apprehended. It was with a view to prevent such a revulsion either in the proximate future or at some distant day, that I thought it necessary to bring to the notice of the Senate and the country, the facts which I have submitted. I think it proper that we should look the truth in the face, and not proceed in the manner we did prior to 1840, in selling so many railroad and other corporation and State stocks. The resolution was agreed to. NANTUCKET LIGHT-HOUSE REPORT. The following resolution, submitted by Mr. HAMLIN on the 31st ultimo, was considered and agreed to: "Resolved, That one hundred copies of the report of the Secretary of War, with the report of Major Bache, relative to the light-house structure on New South Shoals, off Nantucket, heretofore ordered to be printed for the Senate, be printed for Major Bache." EXECUTIVE SESSION. Mr. MASON. I move that the Senate proceed to the consideration of Executive business. Mr. SHIELDS. I hope my friend from Virginia will withdraw that motion for a moment. I promised the Senator from North Carolina, [Mr. BADGER,] if he was not here this morning, to call up a resolution which he submitted a few days ago. Mr. MASON. What is it? Mr. BRIGHT. I suppose it is the resolution in relation to the employment of an additional messenger. Mr. MASON. Linsist on my motion. The motion was agreed to; and the Senate proceeded to the consideration of Executive business; and after some time spent therein, the doors were reopened, and The Senate adjourned. TUESDAY, April 5, 1853. On motion by Mr. JONES, of Iowa, it was Ordered, That Daniel Knipps and Lewis Ralston have leave to withdraw their papers from the files of the Senate. On motion by Mr. GWIN, it was ics which the honorable Senator has furnished, the correction of which will go far to remove the apprehensions which he has expressed. The item that he sets down in his statistics of the coin brought into this country by immigrants I think is underestimated. If I recollect aright, the number of immigrants to this country has now passed beyond four hundred thousand, and is tending tolittle acquaintance I have with the subject has conwards five hundred thousand per annum. vinced me that the amount of gold and silver brought by these immigrants is much larger than he makes it. The increase of population by immigration is crowding close upon the native nicrease. In the statistics which he has read he has not made allowance for the profits which are made by our own merchants upon the importation of this great amount. There is another item which I think should be taken into the calculation. At the expiration of an average period of five or six years, all these immigrants become producers-resolution, chiefly agricultural producers in the great West; ultimo: and they, with their children and their children's children, are constantly increasing the wealth of the country in a geometrical ratio. There is another point which goes to dissipate any apprehension of a speedy revulsion, and that is, that the amount of gold that we can export is an amount within certain limits subject to our own power of increase. We export now what is wanted. We export no more because Europe wants no more. But if there comes a reShe will take no more. turn of American credits or stocks, or other forms of remittances, the increased amount which we shall send will supply that which comes back upon us. If it is said that that will be a drain from our own country of gold, I answer that the increased demand for gold there and here will be attended by increased facilities to transport to the mines the laborers and the capital which will be necessary to increase the supply of gold. With that will come a reduction of the cost of mining, and an increase of the amount produced. These circumstances, which stand out prominently upon the first view, incline me to believe that for the present there is no serious ground of apprehension. If the remarks of the honorable Senator had gone abroad without being accompanied by some adverse explanation, there might have been a misapprehension excited in the public mind. At the same time, as I stated before, I shall cheerfully support the resolution; for I agree entirely with him, that, instead of sending paper to England, we had better send gold; and ins ead of sending either, we had better send whatever we can produce by cultivating the soil or by manufacturing its products. Mr. BRODHEAD. I did not wish to be un Ordered, That Maria C. J. Johnson, David W. Alexander, and H. P. Dorsey, have leave to withdraw their papers from the files of the Senate. SENATE DEBATES. The Senate proceeded to consider the following submitted by Mr. HAMLIN on the 31st "Resolved, That the Secretary of the Senate be authorized to contract with John C. Rives for a number of copies of the Congressional Globe and Appendix, equal to thirtyseven copies to each Senator, in addition to the number of copies now received by them; and that the price per copy shall not exceed the sum paid under the existing contract." Mr. GWIN. I offer the following as a substitute for the resolution; to strike out all after the word "resolved," and insert: That the Secretary of the Senate be authorized to contract with John C. Rives for a number of copies of the Congressional Globe and Appendix equal to thirty-seven copies to each Senator, and that the price per copy shall not exceed the sum now paid. Resolved, That the Secretary be also authorized to enter into a contract with the editors of the Union and Intelligencer to publish in their respective papers from the commencement of the next session, the revised debates of the Senate, at the rate of seven dollars per column, and to revoke any existing contracts with the editors of the said two papers for reporting and publishing said debates: Provided, however, That the editors of the Intelligencer be paid seven dollars and fifty cents per column for the debates and proceedings of the Thirty-second Congress, published and to be published in said paper. My object is to have these debates published in papers that have some circulation. The reports that have been published in the Intelligencer during the last Congress have been very accurate, and although concise they have contained the substance of the proceedings of the two Houses of Congress, certainly of the Senate, and their insertion has prevented profitable advertisements that would otherwise have been inserted. I hope the proposition will be agreed to. Mr. SEBASTIAN I hope this resolution will be informally passed over for the present. My colleague, [Mr. BORLAND,] who I observe is not now in his seat, takes an interest in the subject, and wishes to discuss it, as he is one of the mem On motion by Mr. MASON, the Senate proIceeded to the consideration of Executive business; and after some time spent therein, the doors were reopened. PRINTING OF A REPORT ON COMMERCE. When the doors were reopened the Senate was engaged in the consideration of a resolution reported by Mr. DODGE, of Iowa, from the Committee to Audit and Control the Contingent Expenses of the Senate, to which a resolution had been referred directing it to report whether the compensation and expenses of the agent employed to procure and compile the information called for by the resolution of the Senate of March 8, 1851, is payable out of the appropriation for the contingent expenses of the Senate, and if not, how the same should be paid. The resolution reported from the committee is as follows: Resolved, That the committee be discharged from the further consideration of the resolution, and that it be referred to the Secretary of the Treasury. Mr. HAMLIN. I would inquire if the Sectetary of the Treasury would, under the resolution, be authorized to make any payment? What appropriation is there out of which it could be made? Mr. BRIGHT. The appropriation asked for is for services in collecting statistical information under the direction of the Secretary of the Treasury. The committee have come to the conclusion that if the contingent fund provided for his Department cannot be applied to the purpose, certainly the contingent fund of the Senate ought not to be applied to the payment of this claim, amounting as it does to $12,000. It should be provided for properly, in an appropriation bill, under the recommendation of the Secretary of the Treasury. The Committee on Contingent Expenses could not consent that such a claim, and one of such size, should be paid out of our contingent fund. Mr. HAMLIN. I know something about this matter, and I agree fully with the Senator from Indiana, that it is a case in which an estimate should have been furnished by the Department, and there should have been an appropriation made for it in a regular appropriation bill. I think there was an estimate, or something resembling one, furnished to the chairman of the Committee on Finance, at a late hour of the last session-so late an hour that he was not able to give it that investigation which it demanded, and no appropriation was made. Mr. Andrews has collected a mass of facts which will be valuable to the country in its commercial relations. He has presented a statement of the commerce of the surrounding colonies and the domestic commerce of some portions of this country, together with a statement of the productions of some of the southern sections of the country, which will render his work very valuable; and it is clearly right that he should receive his pay. He was employed by the late Secretary of the Treasury. I have no objection to his being paid out of the contingent fund of the Treasury Department. I think it would be somewhat more proper; but inasmuch as it was purely an oversight that an appropriation was not made for it, and as the Senate has taken the document and printed it, I think we should pay some portion of the expense out of the contingent fund which could be reimbursed at another session. However, if the payment can be made in the way suggested by the report of the committee, I have no objection; but I would much rather pay a portion of the claim out of the contingent fund than allow the man to go unpaid entirely. Mr. DODGE, of Iowa. I agree with the Senator from Maine, that the work is a valuable one. I think, however, that this is not a charge that ought to be made on, and not one cent should be paid out of our contingent fund. If we establish the precedent it will add very greatly to the embarrassments which are now occasioned by calls upon that fund, and originate claims the extent of which we cannot foresee. Another reason why Special Session-Mexican Boundary. we should not pay it out of the contingent fund is, that the committee has not investigated it. Having decided primarily that it was not proper to be paid out of the contingent fund, we did not investigate it all, and are, therefore, not able to pronounce what the amount ought to be, or what portion of it the Senate should pay. The work was done entirely under the direction of the Treasury Department. The instructions issued from it. The report was made to it, and it is therefore proper that it should be paid for there and not here. It should, in my judgment, be provided for by an appropriation at the next session of Congress. Mr. BRIGHT. The resolution under which the services were performed was introduced into the Senate by the late Senator from New Hampshire, [Mr. HALE,] and was adopted on the 8th of March, 1851, and is as follows: "Resolved, That the Secretary of the Treasury be requested to communicate to the Senate as early as possible at the next session, full and complete statements of the trade and commerce of the British North American Colonies with the United States and other parts of the world, inland and by sea, for the years 1850 and 1851, with such other information as can be procured of the trade of the great lakes." That shows clearly that the work should be paid for either out of the contingent fund of the Treasury Department, or by an appropriation specially made for the purpose. It is evident to my mind that it should be paid by an appropriation from the Treasury, for the reason that the account, as any one will see by referring to it, is made up of various sums, such as postages and miscellaneous items generally; and referring it to the Committee on Contingent Expenses would be nothing more nor less than giving them power to pass a law authorizing the payment of the several items. But the Senate is already aware that there is some prejudice existing in consequence of the amount of expenditures from our contingent fund, which has gone up to an amount over $300,000 per annum. The object of the committee is to rule out every claim which is not legitimate and proper to be paid out of that fund; and this is clearly such a claim. The question was taken on the resolution, and it was agreed to. OPEN EXECUTIVE SESSIONS. Mr. CHASE submitted the following resolution for consideration: Resolved, That all sessions and all proceedings of the Senate shall be public and open, except when matters communicated in confidence by the President, shall be received and considered, and in such other cases as the Senate by resolution from time to time shall specially order; and so much of the 38th, 39th, and 40th rules as may be inconsistent with this rule is hereby rescinded. CHARGES AGAINST GOVERNOR RAMSAY. Mr. SEBASTIAN submitted the following resolution; which was considered by unanimous consent, and agreed to: Resolved, That the President be, and he is hereby, requested to cause to be investigated the charges of fraud and misconduct in office alleged against Alexander Ramsay, Superintendent of Indian Affairs in Minnesota, and which were referred to the Committee on Indian Affairs by a res olution of the 10th January last, and to report the results of such investigation to the Senate at the next session of Congress, and that the record of the proceedings of said commmittee under said resolution be referred to the President, and be subject to such order as he may make therein. THE MEXICAN BOUNDARY. The Senate proceeded to consider the following resolution, submitted by Mr. HousTON on the 30th ultimo: "Resolved, That John R. Bartlett, late Commissioner, and A. B. Gray, late United States Surveyor of the Mexican Boundary, be authorized to furnish a report and plans to the Senate of the explorations made by them and by others connected with the Commission under them, on the topog. raphy, geography, and natural history of the regions adjacent to the line, with such information as was collected relative to the Indian tribes through Texas, California, and New Mexico; and that the work be executed under the supervision of the Department of the Interior in a style and form corresponding with the publication of "The History, Condition, and Prospects of the Indian Tribes" of H. R. Schoolcraft, now in course of publication, and Owen's Report on the Geology of Lake Superior: Provided, That the same shall not exceed two volumes: That one thousand copies be published for the use of the Senate, at as early a period as practicable, and the Secretary of the Senate is hereby authorized to contract for the publication thereof, and to defray the expenses out of the contingent fund.” Mr. HUNTER. This is an important matter. I hope we shall not go into it now. There is no SENATE. It is a proposi pressing necessity for doing so. tion to print another very expensive book. I do not know how far it comes in conflict with the provision of the deficiency bill passed at the last session in regard to the distribution of books. I should like to look to that. I hope it will be laid over, and I will look into it by to-morrow. Mr. HOUSTON. I do not know that the expense is a matter of any great importance if the information is important, as I think it is. The gentlemen referred to in the resolution are both scientific men. They have had a long time to make their observations. They have had an opportunity of digesting and putting them in the best form for presentation to the world. I think that the character of the information proposed is as important as any that can come before the Senate, and there is no other opportunity of obtaining it. The American people are interested in it; and if some expense shall be the consequence of it, I do not see that that is any particular objection to it. I hope the resolution will be adopted. I would not call for the information unless I believed it of importance, and unless I was convinced that there was no other way of obtaining it. If there is another way of obtaining it, and gentlemen are satisfied that it can be obtained in a better way, I will accede to anything they propose. But if there is no other plan proposed, I shall certainly insist upon this plan, on the ground that the information is important, needful, and necessary. Mr. BORLAND. I would suggest that we should pursue the plan in this case which is usually pursued. I believe a person engaged in an exploration is to report to the Department, and if the Department, upon examining the report, deems it of public interest and value, it can be sent to either House of Congress with a recommendation for its publication, and the mode in which it is to be published can then be determined. That I think is the usual mode; and it would be better for us to pursue that mode in this case; for when we come to look at the expense which this work will involve, and our experience in publishing books of this kind, we will find that the contingent fund of the Senate would not be one fourth large enough to publish it. The cost of the publication alone of the work of Schoolcraft, to which the resolution refers, was something like $100,000. We have got three volumes, and they have not cost less than that amount. And Dr. Owen's book, which is a very valuable one, I think cost over $30,000, and it is perhaps the cheapest book ever published vision of the General Land Office, and Dr. Owen by Congress. It was published under the superhas been permitted to supervise it and make all the contracts; and to my astonishment he has reduced the cost to less than four dollars per volume, as he informs me; but he has done it by pursuing a course which nobody else has ever done He has gone in person to examine the engraving establishments, so as to procure the eng.avings and wood-cuts on the best terms, and in the best manner, and made contracts lower than anybody else has ever done. Then if we look at the publication of Mr. Wilkes's book, which has been in progress for some ten or twelve years-I say look at the cost, not at the book, for I believe very few have an opportunity to see the work at all-we have been paying $25,000 or $30,000 for that. I mention this, I wish the Senator from Maryland to understand, not to assail the work or its character, but as an instance of the expense of publication. It will, however, be understood that these have been in the form of reports made, and then it has been a matter of discretion with the Departments and with Congress as to the mode of publication. I think that will be the better course to pursue in this case. Mr. PEARCE. I think this resolution had better not be passed now. The Commission on the Mexican Boundary has not yet closed its labors, and a large amount of information can probably be obtained which has not yet been reported; and I suppose a large amount will be included in the report of the Commission. I think it better in every point of view to get all the information we can, if we are to make the publication, and that therefore it will be better to postpone it until the whole survey shall be completed. We shall then have the labors of all the different officers together with the probable amount of the 32D CONG.....3D SESS. expense of the publication, and shall be enabled to act with more light upon the subject. I therefore think it inexpedient to act now. Mr. BRIGHT. Before I vote upon the resolution, I should like to know from the honorable Senator from California, [Mr. WELLER,] who was formerly the Commissioner on the Boundary, whether he has not in contemplation for publication a work also? I should not like to give a vote in conflict with his wishes, and I therefore should like to hear from him. [Laughter.] Mr. MASON. I agree entirely with the suggestions made by the Senator from Arkansas in regard to the plan adopted for the publication of works of this description. We should at least have some notice in advance of what is to be published. Now, the Commissioner and the Surveyor on the Boundary Commission were responsible to the Department of the Interior, and it was their duty to make a report to that Department of all the official matters committed to their charge. The duty prescribed by law was simply to run and mark the boundary line between the United States and Mexico; but I see by the instructions from the Department, which perhaps were very proper, they were instructed further to make as far as they could an examination of the natural history of the country, its productions, &c. How far those gentlemen were competent for the discharge of this incidental duty, is a matter which I would be very sorry in my place in the Senate to determine, unless the work is first submitted to us, and we have some information about it. As has been said, and properly said, by the Senator from Maryland, [Mr. PEARCE,] this work is unfinished; and the action that has been taken on the work of the late Commissioner is of a character, I should think, very little to recommend it to the confidence of the Senate. We were obliged to withhold the appropriation for the continuance of the Commission because, in the judgment of the Senate, the Commissioner had departed from his proper duties in fixing the boundary line; and I am informed from an official source, since that Commission has been broken down and returned home, that the Surveyor, Mr. Emory, who was there conducting the survey, never had the pleasure of an interview with the Commissioner during the whole time he held office-more than twelve months. He was in the line of his duty prosecuting the survey while the Commissioner was, God knows where, exploring I suppose the interior of Mexico and finding the materials for this work. I want information on all these subjects before I can sanction anything done by that gentleman. I do not mean to prejudge him. I have no information to enable me to do it. But let him make his report to the Department of the Interior, and then if the work is of sufficient merit, after bringing it along side of, and collating it with the works of his predecessor and successor, let them be published as a whole; but I should regret extremely to take any step now to publish it when I do not know what it is. Mr. HOUSTON. I think the remarks of the honorable Senator from Virginia strengthens the position which I have taken. He says that the Commissioner was absent from the particular duty of running the line God knows where in Mexico I have no doubt in the world that he has collected and collated some very interesting facts which will make a very interesting work, if we had all the minutiae which he would be enabled to give. It appears to me that it more strongly urges the resolution than what I had said before. I think it very important that we should have it. Mr. MASON. I will ask the honorable Senator a question. The resolution requires the officers to report to the Senate. Now, I will ask the Senator if he has any information why the officers have not reported to the Department of the Interior? may be suppressed for years, and not brought That is my reason for wanting the book. I want A SENATOR. And Major Emory. Mr. BUTLER. Yes, sir, and Major Emory. Those gentlemen ought to be consulted. It seems to me entirely premature to take a book in the gross in this way without the indorsement of some literary person who has examined it. The best way, I suppose, is to edit the book, and then look at it, for that is the proposition. One word upon these books which are so much praised. I would like to know how so many of them get into the bookstores? I would like to know how so many of the documents published by the authority of the Senate get into the bakers' shops, to wrap up the bread with? [Laughter.] How many books are sold by the pound in many shops and stores of this District? Sir, they do not even go to the mail. They leave the hands of members of Congress and go into those shops, or into the bookstores. How they get there I cannot tell; but that they are there everybody knows; whether they are purloined by some subordinate or the members of Congress are indifferent to them, and let them be distributed in that way. I suppose the honorable Senator from Texas when he spoke of the books being stolen out of the mail, did not allude to the mail that goes south, and did not suppose that they would be purloined in North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, or Mississippi. I hardly know in what portion of the country through which the mail runs, there is such a literary mania. It may be on the road to Texas itself. [Laughter.] mend him to consideration, no man is more reliable, more truthful than Mr. Gray, and for these reasons I wish to see his production. I do not, to be sure, agree with Mr. Bartlett in relation to the fixing of the initial point for the running of the boundary line between Texas and Mexico, but still I would like to know his general information; and if he was peregrinating throughout Mexico, when he ought to have been engaged in something else, we shall find out the reason of his absence, and the result may be something very interesting and amusing. The report will inform us of various matters connected with Mexico, about which I would like to know something; but I am pèrfectly willing to submit to the decision of the SenI am not a great reader of books. In the reading of documents published by order of the Senate, I have confined myself pretty much to the Patent Office Report. [Laughter.] I have obtained a great deal of useful information from itleaving out of view the mechanical branch of it, for I do not understand that. [Laughter.] ate. The PRESIDENT. The question is on postponing the further consideration of the resolution until to-morrow. Mr. HUNTER. Since it has been taken up, I think it had better be disposed of. I believe that this habit of printing books for the purpose of gratifying the personal desire, of individuals or officers connected with the Government, for distinction, has led to a great deal of mischief. I am not surprised that persons should desire to obtain for nothing books printed at the public expense. The Senator from Texas says that the demand for books is increasing. Of course it is; and we shall not be able to satisfy it, if we go on in this manner printing any book which any public officer may choose to write for the purpose of placing his name favorably before the public. We not only give him an advantage over all other literary men, but we produce a demand for books which will not be satisfied, and this demand is to be met out of the contingent fund of the Senate. I ask again as I asked the other day, how long can we expect the House of Representatives to be satisfied with our separate and single control of that fund, if we saddle it with such expenses as this? Again, as has been properly remarked by the Senator from Arkansas, and my colleague, who knows anything about this book? Has the Senator from Texas examined it? Has he read it? Does he know anything of the materials which compose it? Have we any opinion passed upon it from any source upon which we can rely? Has it been examined by any Department of the Government, or by any committee of this body? Who can say what it is to cost; of how many volumes it is to consist; under whose direction it is to be executed? Are we to publish whatever Mr. Bartlett or Mr. Gray may choose to write and ask to have published at the public expense, and make a book which is likely to be so costly, as one of this sort containing costly engravings? It seems to me that this is such a proposition as has never been presented here before. We have already gone too far; and it is asking us to go further than we have ever done before. I move that the reso Mr. HOUSTON. I certainly intended to cast Mr. HOUSTON. It is understood that the Department of the Interior is supposed to suppress very important facts, and not give them to the world. I want those facts. They relate principally to the section of country which I in part represent. They relate to the entire country be-tunity to purloin. tween Texas and California. They are very important to the region of country, and not only to that region, but to the whole country. It is important to obtain the information which otherwise But I am furnished by the Senator from South Carolina, with an argument in favor of the resolution. He says the proposition is to print a book which not one Senator knows anything about. Mr. HOUSTON. I hope the Senator will withdraw that motion for a moment to let me say a few words. Mr. HUNTER. I withdraw it. Mr. HOUSTON. My friend from Virginia asks me if I have read the work? Sir, I desire to see it in print that I may read it. I do not like to read manuscript. [Laughter.] It ought to be printed, so that I and the Senate and the country may see it. 32D CONG.....3d Sess. Mr. HUNTER. I will ask the Senator if the book has been written? Mr. HOUSTON. The reports have been written. They are waiting the order of the Senate. -They have been ready for some time. I insist that the Senator shall not move to lay the resolution on the table. He had better move to postpone it indefinitely. I have no objection to its lying over until to-morrow. Mr. HUNTER. I desire to dispose of the resolution as it is up. We can dispose of it now, as well as to-morrow; and I hope my motion will be a test question. Mr. HOUSTON. to do to-morrow, and subject to talk upon. much about the book. We may have nothing else it will be a very profitable [Laughter.] I do not care I am as little fond of books as anybody; but I have no doubt that this work will contain a great deal of valuable information. As to the amount of expense, I think that very inconsiderable. I do not think the book ought to be regarded in the light in which some gentlemen seem to look at it. It will be a book of great value. We are to have an interesting and important relation hereafter to the section of country to which it refers; and if it referred to no other subject than the topography of the country, and the condition of the Indians, their numbers, &c., it would be a matter of great importance. Mr. HUNTER. I am informed by gentlemen who are likely to know, that the Senator from Texas is perhaps mistaken as to this book having been written. The report has not been written. The resolution will merely give authority to the officers to write as much as they choose. The Senator from California, who is acquainted with these matters, thinks it is not written. So does the Senator from Maryland. Mr. HOUSTON. If the Senate will postpone the resolution until to-morrow, I will ascertain that fact. If it is not written, I shall not insist upon the resolution. Unless it has been prepared as an official document in relation to this particular subject, under the instructions given to them by the Department for the prosecution of their work, I shall not insist upon it. Mr. PEARCE. If this report is written, it has been done since the 4th of March last. I know efforts were made about that time to get hold of materials for writing it. I suppose it has hardly been prepared since that time. with it, but the Secretary of the Senate is to pay for it out of the contingent fund. I am satisfied, judging from our experience with other books of this sort, that the contingent fund is not one fourth large enough for it, and the payment of it, will fund for any other object. Mr. MASON. I move to postpore the further consideration of the resolution until to-morrow, for the purpose of going into Executive session. Mr. HOUSTON. I know nothing about the intention which may be had in regard to the pub-deprive the Senate of the use of the contingent lication of this work. I am satisfied from the source from which I have derived my information that it will be a valuable work, and that has induced me to offer this resolution. I am satisfied that it has no object to promote the interest of any bookseller or bookmaker; and the individual from whom it emanates is as far from doing a thing indirectly as any man in America. It was Mr. Gray, who has been suppressed in the expression of his intelligence, that suggested this; and it was for the purpose, not only of vindicating himself against the imputation of having been discharged for disobedience of orders, but for the purpose of showing on what ground he acted; the amount of information that he obtained and the labor that he Mr. BORLAND. In the remarks which I way. Mr. HAMLIN. From what I know of this subject I am inclined to agree with the Senator from Maryland. I think that the report, or book, or whatever you call it, has not been written. I think the language of the resolution is against that. It does not speak of it as a thing completed, but it is an invitation to those two officers to prepare a report, or I choose rather to say, to write a book; and it is, in my sober judgment, for the benefit of a certain publishing house in a city not a great many miles distant from this. We have, in my judgment on many occasions, gone too far, much too far in the publication of what are really books, which did not relate to the commercial, agricultural, or manufacturing interests of the country. A scientific gentleman in the Army or Navy gets attached to some expedition and he writes a report. He makes that report to some one of the Departments-the Department under which he may have been sent out; and in that way every individual who has been desirous of publish-pared ing a book, if he could get attached to a survey of any kind, had the opportunity of publishing it at the expense of the contingent fund of the Senate. Now, sir, this resolution proposes to go one step further. There has been no report even made to the Department; but the resolution is an invitation to the two officers to prepare a report which may or may not have been collected in the proper sphere of their duties, and which is to be, if made, a book relating to various subjects specified in the resolution, but which had no legitimate connection with their duties on the survey. If we should take this step, I do not know why we should not go into any subject in science. I believe that we should dispose of this matter now. I see that Senators are desirous of going into Executive session, and as the matter has been fully discussed, I move as a test question that the resolution do lie upon the table. I am satisfied that the report has not been prefor publication. The materials are on hand out of which the gentleman proposed to make it. As to Mr. Bartlett's connection with it, I know nothing further than this: that he called upon me with a part of the manuscript which I did not have time to examine, and told me that his object was to show me a part of the materials, and expressed his solicitude for its publication. I do not know what Mr. Gray has to do with it; but Mr. Bartlett is not only cognizant of what is proposed to be done, but he is making the most pressing solicitations to have it done; and I understand that he is a book publisher; certainly it was rep. resented at the time he was appointed Commissioner that he was a bookseller and book publisher. I take it for granted, seeing the anxiety which he exhibits to have the work printed, that he expects to have the job, because the terms of the resolution leaves it entirely discretionary with them-no committee is to have anything to do Mr. DOUGLAS. I think we had better put an end to this discussion, and I shall therefore move that the resolution lie upon the table. I will, however, make one remark before 1 submit the motion. It is probable that when this report shall have been made to the Senate, and a motion shall have been made to print it, and that motion shall have been referred to the Committee on Printing and received a favorable report from that committee, I may be able to go for the printing of it; but I cannot go for it without that action. I cannot do it before I know what the report is. I therefore move that the resolution lie upon the table. If they desire the report to be printed, let it be submitted to the Department, laid before the Senate, referred to the Committee on Printing, and favorably reported upon. The motion to lay upon the table was agreed to. EXECUTIVE SESSION. On motion by Mr. MASON, the Senate proceeded to the consideration of Executive business; and after some time spent therein, the doors were reopened, and the Senate adjourned. WEDNESDAY, April 6, 1853. Prayer by the Rev. J. G. BUTler. The PRESIDENT laid before the Senate two copies of the laws of New Mexico, which were referred to the Committee on the Judiciary. DIFFICULTIES AT SAN JUAN. Mr. SEWARD submitted the following resolution; which was considered by unanimous con sent: Resolved, That the President of the United States be requested, if in his opinion it shall be compatible with the public interest, to communicate to the Senate such official information as he may have received touching the recent transactions between Captain Hollins of the sloop of war Cyane and the authorities of Greytown or San Juan de Nicaragua, together with the orders and instructions which have been given to Captain Hollins in relation to the affairs at that place. Mr. DOUGLAS. I hope the Senator will modify the resolution by striking out "Greytown or." I dislike to recognize that English name. The place was never known as Greytown, but always as San Juan, from the first discovery of the continent up to the 8th of February, 1848, when it was seized by the British, and the name changed. Mr. SEWARD. I accept the modification. DEBATES IN THE SENATE. The Senate resumed the consideration of the resolution submitted by Mr. HAMLIN in relation to the purchase of thirty-seven extra copies of the Congressional Globe and Appendix for each Senator, the pending question being on the amendment of Mr. GWIN. On motion by Mr. HAMLIN, the further consideration of the subject was postponed until the first Monday in December next. The PRESIDENT. The next resolution in order is the following, which was submitted by the Senator from North Carolina [Mr. BADGER] on the 10th ultimo: "Resolved, That the Secretary of the Senate have published in the Daily National Intelligencer, the full debates and proceedings of the Senate for the late legislative session, and pay the same compensation therefor as is allowed to the Union and Globe, and pro rata for what has been reported and published in the Intelligencer during the present Congress." Mr. GWIN. I hope that will be postponed. Mr. BORLAND. I think it had better be considered and disposed of. It is a proposition which in my opinion should not be agreed to, and we had better lay it on the table or reject it at once. We can have no better time to act upon it than the present. |