the resur

rection.

And when he proveth that the saints be in heaven in glory with Christ already, saying: If God be their God they be in heaven, for he is not the God of the dead; there he stealeth away Christ's argument wherewith he M. More proveth the resurrection, that Abraham and all saints destroyeth should rise again, and not that their souls were in heaven, which doctrine was not yet in the world. And with that doctrine he taketh away the resurrection quite, and maketh Christ's argument of none effect. For when Christ allegeth the Scripture that God is Abraham's God, and addeth to, that God is not God of the dead but of the living, and so proveth that Abraham must rise again; I Matt. xxii. deny Christ's argument, and say with M. More, that Abraham is yet alive, not because of the resurrection, but because his soul is in heaven. And in like manner Paul's argument unto the Corinthians is nought worth. when he saith, If there be no resurrection, we be of all wretches the miserablest; here we have no pleasure, but sorrow, care, and oppression. And therefore, if we rise not again, all our suffering is in vain. Nay, Paul, thou art unlearned, go to Master More and learn a new way. We be not most miserable, though we rise not again, for our souls go to heaven as soon as we be dead, and are there in as great joy as Christ that is risen again. And I marvel that Paul had not comforted the Thessalonians with that doctrine, if he had wist it, that the souls of their dead had been in joy, as he did with the resurrection, that their dead should rise again. If the souls be in heaven in as great glory as the angels, after your doctrine, shew me what cause should be of the resurrection?

For 1 Cor. xv.

And when he saith, Whether the saints do it themselves or by intercession made to God, it maketh no matter, so we be holp; it appeareth by his doctrine, that all is good that helpeth, though a man pray unto the devil, by whom many be holp. Now in Christ we have promises of all manner [of] help, and not in them. Where then is our faith to be holp by Christ, when we hope to be holp by the merits

1 Thess. iv.

The more

trust we

have in

saints, the less we

have in

Christ.

of saints? So, it appeareth, that the more trust we have in saints, the less we have in Christ.

And when he bringeth in a similitude, that we pray Physicians. physicians, though God can help us, and therefore we must pray to saints; it is not like: for they have natural remedies for us, which we must use, and not tempt God. But the saints have no natural remedies, nor promise of supernatural. And therefore it can be but a false superstitious faith. And where no natural remedy is, there God hath promised to help them that believe in him.

We must

first call up on God, and then send for the physician.

And moreover when I pray a physician or surgeon and trust to be holp by them, I dishonour God, except I first pray to God, and believe that he will work with their doctrine and medicines, and so receive mine health of the hand of God. And even so when I pray to man, to help me at mine need, I sin, except I complain first to God and shew him my need, and desire him to move one or another to help me, and then when I am holp, thank him and receive it of his hand, inasmuch as he moved the heart of him that holp me, and gave him wherewith, and a commandment to do it.

M. MORE. Christ is not dishonoured because that they which here preach him truly shall sit and judge with him.

TYNDALE. That to be true the Scripture testifieth, but what is that to your purpose that they which be dead can hear us and help us? Howbeit if M. More should describe us those sects, I am sure he would paint them after the fashion of my lord cardinal's holy chair, as he The fleshly doth God after the similitude of worldly tyrants and not according to his own word. For they that be worldly and fleshly minded can but fleshly imagine of God altogether like unto the similitude of worldly things.

minded

cannot

judge the things that

be of God.

M. MORE. The apostles and saints were prayed to when they were alive, and God not dishonoured.

TYNDALE. What helpeth that your carnal purpose? I have answered you unto that and many things more in the

Obedience, and other places against which ye reply not, but keep your tune, and unto all things sing Cuckoo, cuckoo, we be the church and cannot err. The apostles had God's word for all that they did and ye none. And yet many dishonoured God and Christ for their false trust and confidence which they had in the apostles, as thou mayest see by Paul to the Corinthians.

:

1 Cor. iii.

More driv

God.

Then he breaketh forth into open blasphemy, and saith that it behoveth us to pray unto saints and that God will eth from else not hear us, for our presumptuous malapertness. So it is now presumptuous malapertness to trust in God's word and to believe that God is true! Paul teacheth us Heb. iv. to be bold to go unto God and sheweth us good cause in Christ, why we so may, and that God would so have us. Neither is there any cause to keep us back, save that we love him not, nor trust him. If a man say, Our sins should keep us back I say, if we repent and believe in Christ, Christ hath taken them away, and therefore, through him we may be bold. And Christ said at his last supper, (John xvi.) I say not that I will pray for you unto my John xvi. Father, for my Father loveth you. As who should say, Be not afraid, nor stand without the doors as a dastard : but be bold, and go in to my Father yourselves in my name, and shew your complaints, for he now loveth you, because ye love my doctrine. And Paul saith, (Eph. ii.) Eph. ii. We have all an open way in, through him, and are now no more foreigners or strangers but of the household of God. Of God therefore we be bold as of a most loving and merciful Father, above all the mercy of fathers. And of our Saviour Jesus we be bold, as of a thing that is our own and more our own than our own skins, and a thing that is so soft and gentle, that lade we him never so much with our sins, he cannot be angry nor cast them from off his back, so we repent and will amend. But M. More hath another doctrine to drive us from God and to make us tremble and be afraid of him.

He likeneth God to worldly tyrants, at whom no man

We may

be bold to

resort to

God, for he

willeth us

so to do.

M. More is against the pope's profit.

Purgatory.

A purgato

ry visible, and a pur.

gatory invisible.

Canonis.

ing.

How you may know who be saints in heaven.

may come, save a few flatterers which minister unto them all voluptuousness, and serve their lusts at all points, which flatterers must first be corrupt with gifts, ere a man may come at the king. Then he saith, A man may pray to every dead man. That, me thinketh, should be against the pope's doctrine and profit also. For he will have no man prayed to until he have canvassed him, I would say, canonised him, and till God, or at the least way the devil, have shewed miracles for him.

Then he bringeth how one that was dead, and in the invisible purgatory holp another that was alive and in the visible purgatory. This is a strange case, that a man there may help another, and not himself. And a more strange case that God heareth a man here for himself, being in his own purgatory, and helpeth him clean out, or easeth him if it be too sore. But and he be in the pope's purgatory, God will not hear him for himself, and that because the pope might have somewhat to deliver him. And the strangest case of all is, that the pope is Almighty there, and God can do there nought at all, as the pope cannot here in this purgatory. But because this is not God's word nor like God's doctrine, I think it no damnable sin to believe it poetry.

Then how ye may pray for them and to them, till they be canonised and when they be canonised, but to them only, for then ye be sure that they be in heaven. By what token? I may be as sure by the canonising, as I am that all the bishops which the pope confirmeth, be holy men, and all the doctors that he maketh well learned, and that all the priests which he anointeth have the Holy Ghost! If ye say, Because of the miracles; then do men King Hen- wrong to pray for king Henry of Windsor, at Cambridge and Eton. For he, as men say, doth miracles. And also if the miracles certify us, what needeth to buy the pope's canonising?

ry of Wind

sor.

THE NINTH CHAPTER.

doctrine to

IN the ninth he putteth no jeopardy to pray to him A strange that is damned and to stick up a candle to him; nor I trow unto the devil thereto, if he might have a vantage by for help him.

pray to him

that is bad and damn

The Israelites were number

more in

than the Jews.

The Jews

committed

Then he maketh no jeopardy to do and believe what- ed. soever an open multitude called God's church doth and believeth. For God will have an open church that cannot err. For saith he, When the Israelites fell to Idolatry, the true church remained in Jerusalem among the Jews. First I say, if a man had no better understanding than M. More's doctrine, he could not know whether were the true church, the Jews or the Israelites. For the Israelites were in number five times more than the Jews, and worshipped God, though as present in the image of a calf, as the Jews for the most part, present in the ark of testimony. And secondarily he saith false. For the Jews were fallen into open idolatry a thousand times worse than the Israelites, even in their very temple, as it appeareth by open stories and by the prophets so that for their open idolatry, which they would for no preaching of the prophets amend; their priests thereto resisting the prophets and encouraging the people in their wickedness, God sent them captive out of the land. Yea and the people erred in following the scribes and pharisees, and the open multitude called God's church, at the coming of Christ; ast it is to see in the gospel, contrary unto M. More's deceitful poetry. And again, God reserved him a little flock reserveth a little flock. ever in Israel, and had ever prophets there, sometimes openly, and sometimes in persecution, that every man must hide himself and keep his faith secret and even in the houses of the evil kings both of Jewry and also of Israel he had good people, and that among the high officers, but secretly, as Nicodemus among the pharisees. So that the very church was every where oftimes in capti

idolatry.

God ever