« PoprzedniaDalej »
1857, it is stated that Sir William Petty headed entered the marriage, on Jan. 26, 1769, of George å pamphlet dedicated to Charles II., with the Townshend Goodenough with Miss Ann Carter, quotation :
of Portsmouth. The Gentleman's Magazine in qui sciret regibus uti
1769 gives G. T. Goodenough as of the Treasury. Fastideret olus.
Was be the owner of Bordwood, in the Isle of Can any of your readers inform me what is Röscher's Wight, and father of Susannah, who married, authority for that statement ? E. G. F. April 28, 1794, Walter Stirling, created a baronet WILLIAM SMITH O'BRIEN (1803–64) is said to his second name Trenchard ? Did G. T. Good
Dec. 15, 1800 ? Is Townshend incorrect; and was have published a pamphlet on Irish Poor Relief in January, 1830. What is the fall title of it, and enough die Feb. 23, 1836, in Hertford Street, Maywhere can it be seen ?
G. F. R. B.
fair, aged ninety-two? His wife appears to have died
March 13, 1832. G. T. Goodenough is stated to VIEW OF THE PARADE IN BATH.-Who was have been collaterally descended from William of the engraver of an oblong folio unsigned print thus Wykeham. I am unable to find any printed lettered? It looks like Rowlandson's work. Goodenough pedigree. ANDREW W. TOER.
REGINALD STEWART BODDINGTON. The Loadenhall Press, E.C.
15, Markham Square, Chelsea. “TO RUSH."~Until within the last few years TORY.—Sir Edwin Arnold, in 'Seas and Lands,' this was an intransitive verb. Military men seem second edition, 1891, at p. 7, remarks, with referto have been the first to make it transitive. They ence to Tory Island :rush a stockade or an entrenchment, instead of
“ The black rocks of that evil-name cape, and the carrying it with a rush, as they used to do; and high white lighthouse on the isle, which has christened now we read of attempts to rush Bills through a great historical party, were the last landmarks for us Parliament. I shall be glad of an early instance of Ireland.” of the verb being used in a transitive form. Has he any authority for this statement; or is it
JAYDEE. à piece of imagination on his part? The usual MEDALLION PORTRAITS.--I should feel grateful
derivations of Tory I am acquainted with, so I do if your readers could give me any information not wish them to appear in your pages. regarding the following personages, whose names,
F. C. BIRKBECK TERRY. with the dates attached, appear on medallion “BUTCHERS'-LEAP."- A curious Sbrove Tuesday portraits by James and William Tassie :
ceremony is still observed at Munich, in Bavaria, Wm. Anderson, surgeon, 1796.
called “Metzgersprung,” according to which the - Bird, physician,
butchers' apprentices, being clothed in lamb’s-skin, Rev. Robert Campbell, 1795.
leap down into a public well, whence they are deRobert Freer, M.D., 1800. James Hare, M.D., 1804.
clared by the masters of the guild to be mates or Rev. Jas. Struthers, 1801.
partners (“Gesellen," or skilled members) of the Robert Wallace, surgeon, 1795.
corporation. How may this strange and ancient Peter Walsb, M.D.,
custom have originated; and why is it performed Lady Anne Poellnitz, 1781.
just on Shrove Tuesday ? Does it, perhaps, allude As the last-named medallion represents a lady to the close of the Carnaval, and to the partial in the prime of life, the sitter can hardly bave been interruption of the butchers' work after Sbrove the widow of the Baron de Poellaitz, who died in Tuesday ?
X. 1775 aged eighty-three. What was the name of the baron's wife; and did he leave any son to OLD ENGLISH SPINNING.-Can any one inform sacceed to his title, whose wife the medallion may me where I can find a description, with illuspossibly represent ? The various mémoires of trations, of Old English spinning? I have someBaron de Poelloitz may perhaps throw some light where seen a representation of a woman spinning on these points ; but I have not at present access with the great wheel, now, I think, entirely out of to any editions of these.
G. use, but I do not recollect where it was.
ARANEOLUS. “THE LEASH.”—In the latter part of the sixteenth century (in or before the year 1584), “The Right
GREAT CA ESTERFORD CHURCH.—Can any of Worshipful Sir Henrie Lee, Knight,""was "Maister your readers belp to discover any account of the of the Leash"; and his“ Worships most humble to original tower of Great Chesterford Church, which commaund, Edward Hellowes “ Groome of fell and broke down the west end of the church, the Leash.”
Can any reader_ kindly say what and a new tower, of poor design, was built up of the these titles mean?
Joan W. BONE, ruins ? The only certain entry I can find is as
follows : “New peal of bells came home. Gt. GOODENOUGA. - In a note-book kept by my Chesterford, Nov. 19, 1796." The original tower great-grandfather, Thomas Boddington, I find was certainly standing in 1722, as it appears in an
old engraving of the neighbouring Roman camp by
ST, THOMAS OF WATERINGS. THE ROYAL VETO. - In Hazell's Annual,'
(8th S. iii. 249, 295.) 1893, under “ Parliamentary Procedure,” is found As an inhabitant of the neighbourhood I can the following :
endorse the following statement of Mr. Walford : “The Royal Assent is always given in the House of Lords—more frequently by commission than otherwise part of the Old Kent Road which is intersected by the
“The precise situation was as near as possible that and it is a curious circumstance that the French language Albany Road.....
The Thomas à Becket,' at the corner is still employed in connexion therewith...... If the of the Albany Road,* commemorates the spot where Sovereign thinks fit to refuse approval to a measure the the pilgrims first halted on their way from London to clerk then says Le roi (la reyne) s'avisera. This power Canterbury.”—'Old and New London,' vi. 250, of rejection, it may be noted, was last exercised by Queen Anne in the year 1707."
In Ogilby's 'Britannia' (1698), map 20, showing If this is a gross mistake, it is strange that in a the road from London to Hith," the stream is work of the kind it has remained 80 long an represented crossing the Kent Road immediately noticed. Will one of your readers kindly say how below a road on the left “to Horsley downe," far the above is true or untrue! Is it absolutely
now the Upper Grange Road. In 'Cary's Survey wrong; or must we simply understand from it that of the High Roads’ (1790) the crossing is shown sovereigns after Anne (e.g., George III. surely!) immediately below the “Green Man Pablic House." exercised their right of veto by some other pro
The “Green Man” is directly opposite the Upper codure, the dismissal of their ministers, the dissola- Grange Road, being the corner house of a thoroughtion of Parliament, &c., and so defeated the measure fare named Smyrk's Road, of which the Kent Road before it reached the stage of being presented for- end was designated Brook's Place until a few years mally for the Royal Assent? How many times ago, the stream being further commemorated by the since Aone has the right been practically exercised ? name Brook Terrace (still visible) bestowed on the
houses in the Kent Road between Smyrk's Road
and King (now Kinglake) Street. At the spot in CARLO ALBACINI.-A friend would like to know Ogilby's map referred to above are printed the where he could see any biographical particulars words: “Rill called Se Thomas a Watering and a about this Italian sculptor. He has sent me a stone that parts the Ld May. Lib'ty.” The stone photograph of a statue of Hercules in marble by is no longer there ; instead thereof is a tablet on him, which is in a private collection in the North the facade of the fire-engine station at the north of England, and, judging by the photograpb, a very corner of St. Thomas's Road, bearing the following fine piece of statuary.
L. L. K. inscription : Tindall's TRANSLATION OF The New Testa: the City of London in the town and borough of South
“1818. Christopher Smith, mayor. The jurisdiction of MENT.-A copy of this translation, supposed to be wark ostendeth northward to the River Thames and the only copy remaining which escaped the flames westward to Lambeth, comprehending the parishes of at St. Paul's Cross, was sold at the sale of Mr. St. George's, St. Saviour's exclusive of the Clink Ames's books, May 13, 1760, for fourteen guineas Liberty, št. Thomas, St. Olave, and St. John." and a balf. Mr. Ames had bought it for 15s. The The distance of the “rill” from “the town” is translation was completed in 1526, and the whole incorrectly given by Nares, and repeated by Canon impression, save this one, burnt in the same year VENABLES, as 14 mile, instead of l} mile as in ('Annual Register,' ii. 101). If this be a fact, Ogilby's "Guide '; but the real distance from Lonwhere now is this unique copy to be seen? don Bridge is nearly 1 mile 5 furlongs.
W. P. The “ Thomas à Beckett occupies the site of Sir THOMAS PATE HANKIN. -Can any of your
Albany House, where a boarding and day school readers instruct me as to the genealogy of Sir was conducted for many years by Mr. Thomas
Thomas Pate Hankin, wounded as major in the Walton, who died in 1858, according to the inscripScots Grays at Waterloo? The names Hankin and tion on his monument in Forest Hill cemetery, Pate bave once been common, according to the and whose
son is the Rov. Thomas Isaac Walton, * History of Hertfordshire,' at Baldock, and I once school is that it numbered among its day scholars
An interesting fact about this thought of consulting the parish church registers there, but found the fees demandable prohibitive in 1847 Sir Charles Bowen and his brother the to mere curiosity. I venture
to ask further, Who Harrow master, their father, the Rov. Christopher was Thomas Hankin, the last Custos Breviam? The Bowen, having been appointed four years predefective registers of Stanstead and Ware pre- dalen's in Clarence (lately renamed Massinger)
viously the first incumbent of St. Mary Magvent the possibility of proving him, through them, to belong to the Stanstead (New Hall) family of
• Wrongly written by CANON VENABLES Arundel that date.
C. W. HANKIN, B.A. Road. It is the thoroughfare in which I dwell,
Street, Old Kent Road. The stream (then a According to this information, the “Dan Cow" common sewer), coming from beyond Walworth on public-house marks the spot where the execations the west, and called by Walworth boys the Mont-were carried out; and readers will not fail to note pelier ditch, flowed in rear of the houses on a curious coincidence between the tavern sign and the north side of the Albany Road, parting them the Grange dairy farm.
F. ADAMS. from the parish of Newington—a portion of the 105, Albany Road, S.E. choked-up bed* is still visible from the boundary mark in Bagshot Street (formerly York Road)
SALZBERY AND "SOMBRESET" IN 1502 (Alb skirted the north boundary of Walton's school s. iii. 101, 197, 272).—I must confess that until garden, which was of ample extent, and thence Mr. Thos. Williams raised the question, I was crossed the Kent Road underground. The map of under the impression that there was a Candale in Surrey in Cary's ' English Atlas' (1787) exhibits France. Hungarian historians, I found, always its discharge into the Thames exactly at the spot spoke of the consort of Wladislaus II. as Anne of where a modern map marks 3 river-miles from Candale, and one of them, quite recently, stated London Bridge.t
Not until 1866 does the that Candale was a comté belonging to Gascony," “Thomas à Beckett" take the place of Albany basing his assertion, as he led me to believe, on House, which was closed in 1864, and the short the authority of Émile de Bonnechose's 'Géothoroughfare, St. Thomas's Road, is of very recent graphie Historique' (Paris, 1847). I was further construction; but prior to the great reform of confirmed in my error by the knowledge of the street nomenclature half a dozen houses in the fact that as lately as 1621 King Louis XIII. made Kent Road immediately south of the Albany General Henry de Nogaret d'Épernon “ toute à la Road were distinguished by the name “St. Thomas fois duc de Candalle et pair de France." Since Place." These were built probably about 1820.
your correspondent, however, has raised a doubt, With respect to the executions performed in this I have looked up the matter and find that I was locality, we learn from Manning and Bray (“Surrey,' mistaken, and that at least one historian—Prof. iï. 402) that “the gallows was erected where is Wentzel, of the Budapest University—correctly now  a garden belonging to the house built calls thé Hungarian queen Anne of Kendal, in by Mr. Rolls," and that the last persons hanged England. here were a father and son for murder about 1742.
With regard to Appe's grandmother, MR. In a note it is explained that
WILLIAMS's authority (is it Dugdale ?) states that "Mr. Rolls was son of one who had acquired a large her pame was Margaret, and that she was the fortune as a cowkeeper. I. After expending a great sum daughter of Michael de la Pole, Earl of Suffolk ; in completing this house (which had been nearly finished but the latter, if not also the former, statement is pulled it down in 1812, selling in lots' the materials as evidently incorrect. True, one of the articles of they stood."
impeachment against William de la Pole, Duke of This Mr. Rolls I take to be John Rolls, grandfather Suffolk, the brother of the above Michael, was of Jobo Allan Rolle, who was created Baron Llan that he had “ for the singular enrichyng of his gattock last September. Lord Llangattock owns (Captal), caused the king to make the said son
neece, and hir husband, sonne to the Capidawe" and is my landlord. Mr. J. R. Dickins, bis estate This passage was pointed out in 1622
Earl of Kendal (Parl. Rolls, 28 Henry VI., art. 31). agent, has kindly favoured me with a note saying Vincent, Rouge Croix Pursuivant of Arms, in his that he believes he is correct in stating that the
* Discoverie of Errors,’in the first edition of Ralphe site of the house which was demolished by Mr. Rolls in 1812 is on the east side of the Old Kent But had the above Michael de la Pole a daughter
Brooke, York Herald's, Catalogue of Nobility.' Road and the north side of Upper Grange Road.
of the name of Margaret? In the pedigree of the * About eighty paces from the front of my house,
De la Pole family printed by Frost in bis ' Early which is situated on the south side of Albany Road.
History of Hull' (facing p. 31), three daughters of † In the Post Office Directory' map for 1857 this our Michael are mentioned, namely, 1, Katharine, spot is marked Earls Sluice, and I am told that the who became a nun on Sunday (? Saturday), May 9, stream whose course I have been tracing is the river
1 Henry VI. ; 2, Elizabeth, who died unmarried Earl, called the Earl Ditch by the drainage authorities, who enclosed it in a twelve-foot pipe some years ago.
Dec. 26, 9 Henry V.; and 3, Isabella, who died Hence, I suppose, the name Earl Road, given to the
unmarried Jan 12, 9 Henry V. Several genealofirst thoroughfare crossed by the stream, after flowing gists, Mr. Doyle (in his ‘Official Peerage') among past the Kent Road, beneath a bridge still remembered. the rest, state tbat John de Foix, Earl of Kendal, Perhaps this unwholesome ditch had something to do with a bad outbreak of fever at Albany House, said to
married the Lady Elizabeth de la Pole, niece of bave brought the school to an end.
William, Duke of Suffolk. But if the above-men1. Presumably at the Grange Farm, Bermondsey, or, tioned pedigree is correct, we must accept the as it was usually called, The Grange. See Burke's conclusion arrived at by Frost, namely, that as • Peerage' for the present year,
Katharine was only twelve years old when she became a nun, and Elizabeth and Isabella died as own plain shield. When the arms of Anne were children, the former at the age of nine, the latter displayed at her wedding, they proved, we are told at the age of six years, it must be assumed that by the author of the French MS., that she was the Countess of Rendal was a niece of Duke related to two royal families. But her seal is William, not by his brother Michael, but by further charged with what seems to be the remnant another brother, or by one of his sisters, of whom of a chevron between the two sinister fleurs-de-lys there were several. In the latter case, of course, in the bottom shield, the rest being absconded. her pame would not have been De la Pole.
As regards the date of the wedding of Anne, The authors of the French dictionary quoted at there cannot be any doubt about it that it took the first reference, too, call the lady in question place in the year 1502. Saputo, in his diary, supMargaret, and give the name of her father as plies a long description of the festivities given in Richard ; but Duke William, so far as we know, honour of Anne at Venice on her way from France had no brother of that pame. Her mother was, to Hungary at the end of July and beginning of they state, “ Marie dite de Sicile," and she herself August, 1502. Then we have the official reports bore a coat which may be recognized easily as of the Venetian ambassadors at the Court of Buda Quarterly, 1 and 4 De la Pole, 2 and 3 Wingfield, to the Signory announcing the birth of little Anne though the tinctures of the latter coat—"d'azur, à on July 23, 1503—the same princess who subla bande d'argent, chargée de trois vols [wings in sequently became the consort of Ferdinand I. of lure] de sable liès de gueules ”—are not given cor- Hungary and Bohemia, and whose portrait, as rectly. Their authority is evidently Father An- Mr. George Scharf bas conclusively proved it, selme's 'Hist. Gén. et Chron. de la Maison Royal figures in the English House of Lords among those de France' (1728), vol. iii. p. 383. In this work of the wives of Henry VIII., having been mistaken we are further told that the names of the parents for that of Anne Bullen. So if we accept the sugof this Margaret de la Pole, daughter of Duke gestion of your correspondents and translate Richard, are given “suivant une preuve d'un "doyen" as "dean” the difficulty is not yet solved, chanoine de Saint Jean de Lyon. [Elle] fat as at the date of the wedding of Anne there was marriée environ l'an 1440."
no Dean of Salisbury, if MR. WILLIAMS's dates Dugdale dames her Margaret (p. 228), and refers are correct. Besides, Somerset Herald, if I reto the “Par). Rolls," which do not give her Chris member rightly, was busy on some errand in Scottian name.
At another place (pp. 180-189 of land in the autumn of and,“not being a bird," vol. ii.) of his 'Baronage' he correctly states her to could not have been present in two places at once. have been the piece of Duke William.
L. L. K. The Lady Margaret to whom Holinshed refers is another lady altogether.
“ YETMINSTER" AND “OCKFORD" (8th S. iii. According to H. A. Napier's 'Swyncombe and 327): – I venture to think that my incidental Ewelme,' the most complete collection of material allusion to Yetminster and Ockford as meaning for a history of the De la Pole family, the parents « dictatorial" than the tone in which Prof. SKEAT
“at the minster,” and “at the ford” was less of Anne's grandmother are unknown. Queen Addo's arms appear on a seal affixed to a had taken the trouble to refer to the most obvious
demands the authority for the statement. If he document dated 1506, the year of her death. The of authorities, the Dorset Domesday, he would seal is reproduced in Geo. Pray’s ‘Syntagma have found Yetminster recorded as Etiminstre, historicum de Sigillis Regum et Reginarum Hun- and Ockford Fitzpaine as Adford. The first corgariæ’ (Buda, 1805); but it is a very crude piece ruption is not unusual, the Domesday, names of dranghtsmanship. It shows the arms of Wladis- Everslage, Eiford, and Ednodestune having, for laus II. impaling those of Anne. Those of the instance, become Yearsley, Yafforth, and Yedqueen are party per fess; in the top shield paston. The more curious change of Adford to Navarre impaling Foix ; the greater portion of the Ockford may have been helped by assimilation ; bottom shield is covered by an inescutcheon in Child Oakford, which, though not in the same chief charged with the two “ lions léopardés", in hundred, is not far from Ockford FitzPaine, appear, pale for Bigorre, and a greatly distended shield in ing in Domesday as Acford. But six hundred the third quarter charged with two cows in pale for Béarn. What remains visible of the field itself years after Domesday was compiled the assimila
tion was still imperfect. ISAAC TAYLOR. is charged with three fleurs-de-lye, one each in the dezter and sinister chief and one in the sinister “We Do’set” always thought that yet means base, the last, probably, displaced to make room gate. And op referring to Hutchins's 'Hist. of for the Béarn shield, which occupies about two-Dorset,' third edition, iii. 445, I find, “ In ancient thirds of the width of the field. The three fleurs- records it is often written Gateminster...... Tradi. de-lys probably_stand for France, as Anne was tion says that it was a principal gate into the related to the French royal family through her Forest of Blackmore.” On the other hand, Domesancestor D'Albret, who quartered France with his day has it (Hutchins says) Estminstre; and Coker,
“Eatminster, or more truly, Eastminster.” Is not Prof. Skeat adduced from Halliwell“ Lucern, a Ockford = Oakford ? In Domesday it is Ackford. lynx," and I find the following account in Coles's
H. J. MOULE. English Dictionary':Dorchester,
“ Lucernes, a beast almost as big as a wolf, of a very
rich fur in Russia." ROBERT AUGUILLON (8th S. iii. 327).—To Robert Aguollon, March 11, 1267, Henry III. granted
Attention has not yet been drawn in this dis"a tonicle, dalmatic, chasuble, and all ornaments cussion to an item in Du Cange :of vestments pertaining to a priest” (Close Roll,
“ Lucia, Animalis genus, quod facile prærupta ascen51 Hen. III.); and at the request of his mother, dit: Hist. Cortusiorum apud Murat. tom. 12. col. 809 : May 24, 1280, Edward I. pardoned to Robert equum ascendisse et omnes milites suos vigorose per. Aguillon and Margaret, Countess of Devon, bis transire et ascendere ripam, quam prius non putassent wife, all her offences committed during widowhood lucias aut muscipulas facere posse,' &c.” (Edit. Favre.) (ibid., 8 Edw. I.). Robert died Feb. 15, 14 Edw. I. The verbal likeness is curious; but what animal is (Inq. Post. Mort., 14 Edw. I., No. 16), leaving meant, whether quadruped or quadruman, is a Margaret, his widow, and Isabel, his daughter and matter for speculation. heir, the latter aged twenty-eight (ibid.).
The following description of the Skinners' arms, The Inquisition of Margaret is 20 Edw. I., 20. from a work referred to as "New View' , She was an Italian princess, the daughter of ii. p. 619," is quoted in Herbert's 'History of the Tomaso I., Count of Savoy, by his second wife, Livery Companies,' ii. 300:Beatrice of Faucigny. On April 4, 1286, dower “Ermine, on a chief gules, three crowns or, with caps was granted to her to the amount of 431. 68. 27d. of the first. Crest, a leopard proper, gorged with a (Close Roll, 14 Edw. I.); and she is mentioned as chaplet of bays or. Supporters, a lucern and a wolf, dead July 7, 1292 (ibid., 20 Edw. I.).
both proper. Motto, ‘To God only be all glory.'" Isabel Bardolf, the only child of Robert Auguil. An engraving of the arms, including the lucern and lon, was not Margaret's daughter, for she was the wolf, is given by Mr. Herbert on p. 299, 80 born, according to her father's Inquisition, on that any of your readers who wish to see what a March 25, 1258, while Margaret's first husband lucern is like may easily gratify their curiosity, was living until 1262. She married Hugh, first in a private note to me ProF. SKEAT says : “I Lord Bardolf, and died before May 28, 1323 have no doubt at all that both luce and lucern (Fines Roll, 16 Edw. II.), leaving issue two sons, meant 'lynx'; though, of course, luce Thomas, Lord Bardolf, born at Watton, Oct. 4, much commoner." There are luces (pikes) in the 1282 (Inq. patris, 32 Édw. I., 64), and William, Fishmongers' arms.
F. ADAMS. who died s.p. in his mother's life, according to
105, Albany Road, Camberwell, S.E. Mr. Stapleton.
Lucern seems to bave been used as an equivalent The usual spelling of Robert's name on the rolls for lynx at least two hundred years before the time is Aguillon or Aiguillon, the last i being sometimes of the quotation given by Nares and Halliwell. changed to y. I do not remember ever to bave see the Ayonbite of Inwyt' (E.E.T.S., p. 81): found it Auguillon.
HERMENTRUDE. “Thanne buo thet hedde the zygthe ase beth the
lynx, thet me clepeth otherlakor leucernere." “ ARM-GAUNT” (8th S. ii. 426).-My consor
E. S. A. varies from “ Arme-gaunt" to Armenian; even 80 may one journey from Monmouth to Macedon.
KINGSLEY'S Last LINES : “BARŮM, Barum, This probably is intended as a withdrawal of the BAREE (74 S. xi. 387, 479). —The following pasfore-arm quasi foro-leg theory, which seemed about sage, which I have just met with in ‘Consuelo,' the lowest depth of bathos. Éowever, I still adhere chap. lxxiv. seems to me to throw some light on to the suggestion that “ Arm-gaunt” means bear. the meaning of the mysterious refrain, “Barùm, ing, or clad in armour.
Barum, Barùm, Barùm, Barùm, Barum, Baree, The suffix gaunt has been compared with the in this song or ballad. The similarity' between French gante-en-fer, as in our borrowed word
· Barùm, Barùm," and "broum, broum" is, at gauntlet. I assume, however, that Sbakspeare all events, striking, and is, I think, worth noting. conjoined arma with gero, aiming at armigerent, “Il y en avait, dit-elle, un quatrième qui restait but shortened to “Arm-gaunt" for the sake of auprès du cheval et qui ne se mêlait do rien. Il avait metre.
une grosse figure indifférente qui me paraissait encore
plus cruelle que les autres ; car, pendant que je pleurais 13, Paternoster-row.
et qu'on battait mon mari, en l'attachant avec des cordes
comme un assassin, co gros-là chantait, et faisait la LUCE (8th S. č. 328, 353, 391, 435, 511 ; iii. trompette avec sa bouche comme s'il eût sonné une 93, 156). – In reply to the original query I sent in fanfare: broum, broum, broum, broum. Ah ! quel coeur & note which might have passed for a replica of de fer!” PROF. SKEAT'S ; but, as I made its insertion condi- Since writing the above I have, curiously tional, it did not appear. At the second reference enough, met with “ broum, broum" again in con