riment of two or three years. He did cotton, silk, wool, and other articles which not think his right hon. Friend realized were reproductive and added to the wealth this fact with regard to spirits, which, of the country, had fallen off. During though he did not undertake to decide the last year they had expended in the the cause to which it was attributable, purchase of articles of food £5,500,000 was nevertheless indisputable - namely, more than they spent during the previous that the consumption of spirits in this year; but upon the materials of industry country was diminishing and not in- they had expended £300,000 or £400,000 creasing, while the consumption of all less. But that did not fully represent the other articles of food was increasing, and falling-off in the quantities of the latter there was, of course, a proportionate in- class of articles imported, because for all crease in the revenue which the duties these articles they were paying enormous upon them yielded to the country. A and ruinous prices. Thus, while the Return, which he (Sir S. Northcote) ob- quantity of cotton imported had decreased tained in the previous year, showed that by 58 per cent, they had paid within 19 in 1841 the consumption of spirits amount- per cent as much for it as they paid the ed, omitting decimals, to 90 gallons for year before. They had imported 31 per every hundred persons; in 1851 it was cent more flax, but had paid 52 per cent 104 gallons; in 1859, 100 gallons; in more for it; they had imported 13 per 1860, 93 gallons; and in 1861 it had cent more hemp, and had paid 40 per cent fallen to 85 gallons, or less than it was more for it; they had imported 17 per in 1841; whereas the consumption of cent more wool and 18 per cent more silk, tea, coffee, sugar, wine, malt and tobacco and had paid respectively 20 and 27 per had in all those years largely increased, cent more for them. That was a state of and had doubled, or even trebled, in the things which, if it continued, must drain case of some of these articles. If the the resources of the country. They were consumption of spirits were generally di- spending much more upon the provisions minishing, it must be expected that it they consumed, and the materials they would, during 1863, fall off more than used, than they could afford, for they usual. During the last year the con- were not making a corresponding profit sumption of tea, sugar, and tobacco had on the articles which they exported to pay increased, while that of spirits had di- for them. They were paying for them minished. It was a time of distress, out of the savings of the country, and and in times of distress, as was ad- his point was, that after such an exmitted by his right hon. Friend himself, penditure there must come a period of people economized by reducing their con- distress. They had entered upon that sumption of spirits. We could not ex- period of distress with a large fund in pect that in the ensuing year the opera- hand; and although they had reason to tives would consume excisable articles thank God that they had been able to bear as largely as they did in the last year, it so well, they must not deceive themand yet the Chancellor of the Exche- selves, or think that the end had come, or quer had based his estimate upon the that the people would not suffer from the assumption that they would consume extraordinary exertions which the country more. They were in a condition of un- had made; and if the people suffered, the easiness with regard to the labouring revenue must suffer also. They were still population. The Trade Returns of the suffering, and likely to suffer, in Lancapast year had kept up wonderfully. The shire and in Ireland; and there were matexports had fallen off much less than ters connected with their foreign relations, might have been expected, and the im- especially in China and the East generally, ports had very considerably increased; which must make them very uneasy as to but if they looked below the surface, the prospects of the coming year. For they would see that was not an unmix- all these reasons he was afraid that his ed good. There was the following very right hon. Friend had over-estimated the striking and, to him, very uncomfort- consuming power of the country, and, in able fact. While they had imported an consequence, had over-estimated the proextraordinary quantity of corn, tea, sugar, bable produce of the Excise. tobacco, and other articles which they had consumed, and which had no reproductive character, the expenditure upon, and the import of, the materials of industry, raw Notwithstanding that, however, he did not think that the Chancellor of the Exchequer's general estimate of revenue was too sanguine. There were circumstances which led him to believe, that taking one thing with another, the estimates of the right hon. Gentleman might be realized, and to expect, that unless a great calamity should intervene, the surplus which he had promised would be obtained. He said that, because the anticipations of the Budget were founded upon the only true, safe, and wise basis of calculation for the reduction of taxation-upon wise and broad reductions of expenditure; and that constituted a great distinction between that Budget and some others which had recently been submitted to Parliament. Nothing could have been more seasonable and more proper than the reductions which the Government had effected in the course of the last year, and upon the Estimates for the ensuing one. He regretted that the Chancellor of the Exchequer in his statement had passed rather lightly over the reductions of the past year, and had not, as was the usual practice, stated to the Committee the amounts of expenditure in each particular Department. This general result, however, came out-that the Government had last year expended £800,000 less than the amount of the Estimates. He should have liked to hear how that £800,000 was saved; but it was a proper and creditable act on the part of the Government to have saved it, and was entirely in accordance with the policy which the Opposition pressed upon them last Session, when they urged them, after the Estimates had been voted, to take into consideration the state of the country, and, if possible, to save some portion of the sums which had been granted. It was upon that policy that the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Cambridge University (Mr. Walpole) founded his Motion. The noble Lord did not give them much hopes at the time that he should be able to adopt that course, but said, "If you press the Resolution you will force us to get rid of the House, or quit our seats on the Treasury Bench." That threat terrified them, or at least some of them, so much that it was impossible to bring the question to an issue; but he was happy to find that the noble Lord, though he then regarded the Resolution as so formidable, when he came to consider how he should act, found that the policy which it recommended was a proper one; and he rejoiced that that Resolution, which for the moment came to nothing, had borne its fruit, and had led to a reduction of expenditure which had had its effect upon the Budget for the coming year. That was very satisfactory; but he hoped that the Government would not think that they had reached the limits of reduction. They had done as much as could reasonably be expected in one year; nobody could wish that there should be any sudden, violent, or miscalculated reductions; but at the same time the optional expenditure of the country, as the Chancellor of the Exchequer described it, was still considerably above what it was three or four years ago, and he believed that there was a margin of two, three, or even four millions upon which reductions might yet be effected. He did not wish to press the Government to go faster than they had done, but he trusted that they would not think that they had quite reached the end of the policy of reduction. He was not quite prepared to admit the entire correctness of the balance-sheet for the last four years which had been laid before the House by the Chancellor of the Exchequer. It included, he thought, certain sums which ought not to be included, while it excluded others which it ought to contain. The result of a correct balance-sheet would, he thought, be found to be far less favourable to the policy of the right hon. Gentleman than that which he had submitted to their notice; but, in the absence of his right hon. Friend, he would not enter into a controversy upon this subject. There was another point also on which he wished to say a few words. sented in the newspapers, no doubt very kindly, but at the same time very erroneously, as having, in the course of the financial statement the evening before, made use of an expression of which he was not the father. The Chancellor of the Exchequer happened to ask how the great development in the prosperity of the country was to be accounted for, and his right hon. Friend the Member for Droitwich (Sir J. Pakington) had suggested the possibility that Australia was at the bottom of the prosperity; upon which the Chancellor of the Exchequer took occasion to deliver a lecture on the political heresy into which he said the right hon. Baronet had fallen. Now, he did not wish at that moment either to endorse or to dispute the justice of the view which his right hon. Friend sought to convey by his ejaculation "Australia;" but, as the word had been assigned to himself, he wished to take that opportunity of stating that it had in reality He had been repre fallen from another Member. He might cellor of the Exchequer, indeed, had said add, however, that there were figures that those receipts were not to be conwhich his right hon. Friend, if he had sidered as forming part of the revenue; happened to have them by him, might but at the same time he estimated on have quoted in support of his opinion, £2,500,000 of Miscellaneous receipts, and and which showed, that while the ex- it would be well to know of what those portation of British and Irish produce £2,500,000 consist, because then they to Australia during the five years pre- could form some opinion as to whether the ceding the gold discoveries averaged item was likely to come in another year. £1,200,000, it amounted, during the last His right hon. and gallant Friend the three years, to £10,776,000 a year. He Member for Huntingdon (General Peel), could not help thinking, therefore, that for instance, had just asked him if in those the great development of the Australian £2,500,000 were included the £500,000 colonies which had followed the discovery which he said would be due on account of gold had had some bearing on our pros- of certain Votes with respect to the perity during the last few years. At the China war. He was not able to give his same time he was, of course, prepared to right hon. Friend the information he readmit that there were other causes at quired, and which he said it was importwork. He had no wish to deny that the ant the House should have, inasmuch as policy of free trade formed a very ma- it might find itself £500,000 short when terial element in the progess of the na- the Vote came on. He hoped, therefore, tion, while the introduction of railways some more definite information, with referand the great progress of colonization ence to Miscellaneous receipts, would be must also be taken into account. The furnished. Having made these observaChancellor of the Exchequer was, he tions, he begged again to express his genethought, somewhat in a hurry to mag-ral approval of the financial scheme which nify the results of recent operations as the right hon. Gentleman had submitted tending in that direction. He had, of to the House. course, a right to say that the repeal of the paper duty conduced to the prosperity of the country; but when he adduced facts to prove that such was the case, he ought to be careful as to the evidence which he selected. He had, for example, stated that there had been a great increase in the introduction of rags for the purpose of making paper; but it did not appear perfectly clear that they were introduced altogether for that purpose, inasmuch as-if he were rightly informed-they were extensively used in the manufacture of a material which was somewhat irreverently termed shoddy." There was one other point with respect to which he might, in conclusion, be allowed to say a few words. It was, he thought, extremely desirable that hon. Members should have before them the Estimates of the revenue in such a form as to enable them to collect as far as possible what might be the receipts, not only for the present year, but for the next. They could not, of course, have the Estimates of the revenue from the Excise and Customs for the next year, but those were matters on which they could arrive at a tolerably fair conclusion for themselves. MR. CHILDERS said, there were disBut there was another and a very import- tinet accounts kept of the import of woolant element in the calculation-he meant len rags and of linen and cotton rags. the miscellaneous receipts, on which they There had been a great increase in the possessed no such information. The Chan-import of woollen rags, from which shoddy con MR. FERRAND said, he could confirm the statement of the hon. Gentleman that a very large quantity of rags was stantly arriving in the country for the purpose of producing "shoddy," or "Devil's dust.' They were submitted to some chymical process, by means of which the cotton was burnt out of them, and the rags were then converted into a sort of paste, from which the cloth in question was manufactured. MR. LOCKE said, the hon. Baronet had misconstrued what was said by the Chancellor of the Exchequer with regard to rags. The right hon. Gentleman had said, it had been supposed that there would not be a sufficient quantity of rags to carry on the paper trade, but the export of paper from this country had largely increased, and there must be a sufficient supply of rags to make that paper. It appeared that in addition to the rags necessary for making paper, rags were introduced to make " shoddy" and "Devil's dust," but that did not interfere with the statement of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. was made; but it was from the account | respect of Clauses 31 and 32,"-instead of the import of cotton and linen rags that thereof. the Chancellor of the Exchequer took his figures in reference to rags. Resolutions agreed to. Bill ordered to be brought in by Mr. MASSEY, Mr. CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, and VISCOUNT PALMERSTON. TELEGRAPHIS BILL-[BILL 78.] THIRD READING. Order for Third Reading read. MR. MILNER GIBSON moved that the Bill be read a third time. Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Bill be now read the third time." MR. AYRTON said, he rose to appeal to the right hon. Gentleman to have the Bill re-committed for the purpose of re-considering some of the Amendments agreed to after the Easter recess in a House much less full than when the Bill passed through Committee, because he doubted whether they carried out the views which were then expressed. He understood that the main object of the Bill was to protect persons against wires being carried over their lands without their consent. Certain telegraph companies had obtained private Acts by which, without notice, they derived powers contrary to every principle of right and justice; but he maintained that they took these Acts at their own peril, and that upon the oversight being discovered the House had a right to reverse the decision. He complained of the 31st and 32nd sections as erroneous in principle, and not carrying out the views expressed when the House was full and the Bill was in Committee. If the right hon. Gentleman did not assent to the re-commitment, he should not enter into contention with him; but he hoped when the Bill reached the other House, that it would not be said that the House of Commons had assented to the Bill as it stood. In that case the Bill would go to the other House in an erroneous condition and at variance with the opinions expressed in Committee. For the purpose of appealing to the right hon. Gentleman, he would move that the Bill be re-committed for the purpose of considering the objectionable clauses. Amendment proposed, to leave out the words "now read the third time," in order to add the words "re-committed in Question proposed, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Question." MR. HUMBERSTON said, he should be reluctant to offer any opposition to the Bill, which he thought was a useful one. He wished to ask, however, if the interpretation clause would give a retrospective effect to the 16th clause, and whether that clause had any reference to the Telegraph Acts already in existence. MR. MILNER GIBSON, in reply, said, that the powers of the 16th clause would only be retrospective with respect to the future exercise of powers already possessed by companies under their special Acts. In Member for the Tower Hamlets he thought regard to the observations of the hon. the hon. Member was labouring under a misapprehension as to the clauses referred to not carrying out what was understood to be the sense of the House. He adopted the one clause word for word as it was constructed before the passing of this Act, proposed. It dealt exclusively with works and he thought that when they dealt with works constructed under powers obtained by Act of Parliament they ought to deal with the parties fairly and even tenderly. In the other clause they gave powers to parties who wanted to use their land for purposes not contemplated when the telegraph works were constructed. In such cases he felt that it was desirable that there should be some third party to decide how far an injury was inflicted, and how far powers legally conferred ought to be interfered with. The wording of the clause was not his, but it had been drawn stood at the time, carried out the wishes by an able draughtsman, and, as he underof all parties. SIR JOHN SHELLEY said, he thought that the Bill would be very useful with regard to future companies, but the difficulty was with regard to the powers which companies had already obtained, and by been done. The Magnetic Telegraph Comwhich in many cases great injustice had pany, for instance, in the exercise of their existing powers, had prevented building on his land near Preston. Certain parties had agreed to erect a house on that land, but they discovered afterwards that the company had used their powers to erect posts and put up wires directly opposite what would be the drawing room windows of the new building. He strongly objected the second reading of this Bill, the object to the appeal being given to the Board of of which was to enable the services to be Trade, and thought that alleged injuries performed in the English language, with should be determined by the local magis- the consent of the bishop, in those parishes tracy. The Bill was better than none at in Wales where Englishmen resided in all, but he trusted it would be thoroughly great numbers. An objection had been sifted in the other House. raised to the bishop being empowered, MR. LYGON said, that many cases of without the consent of the incumbent, to injury had been inflicted by wires passing require that the services should be so perbefore the windows of villas. The powers formed. He had determined, if possible, given under Clause 31 would not be suffi- to remove that objection, and for that purcient to prevent annoyance, because there pose he would introduce Amendments to were cases of annoyances which no pecuni- the effect that bishops should licence the ary compensation could meet. It was a buildings and the ministers, who were great hardship that persons so annoyed to officiate in the English language with should be put to all the expense of coming the consent of the incumbent; but if the up to the Board of Trade. Whenever incumbent declined to consent, he should there was a serious interference with the send a proper statement of his reasons to rights of property, an appeal should be the bishop; and that if the bishop decided allowed to a local authority to determine against him, then there should be an apwhether there was bona fides in the com-peal to the archbishop of the province, plaint. He should support the Motion for re-commitment, in order that Clause 31 might be re-considered. MR. LOCKE said, the interests of the public were not sufficiently protected in the Bill. Telegraph companies would still, he understood, have power to come on private property without notice. He also objected to the provision for referring disputed cases to the Board of Trade. In his opinion persons injured should be permitted to revert to their common law rights, and go before the magistrates. MR. MILNER GIBSON said, he could assure the hon. and learned Gentleman that the Bill provided that in the case of future works due notice must be given to the parties interested, who could then object, or who, even if they did not object at that time, could on some future occasion come forward and apply for the removal of the posts or wires. MR. LOCKE said, that was not intelligibly stated in the Bill. Question put. whose decision should be final. There was every reason to suppose that those Amendments would be satisfactory to the parties concerned. MR. LYGON said, that as one of those who objected to the Bill in its then form, he was glad that his right hon. Friend intended to introduce Amendments, which he hoped would sufficiently protect the rights of Welsh incumbents. Bill read 2o, and committed for Monday next. House adjourned at a quarter before HOUSE OF LORDS, Monday, April 20, 1863. The House divided:-Ayes 19; Noes MINUTES.] 25: Majority 6. Words added. Main Question, as amended, put, and agreed to. Bill re-committed, in respect of Clauses 31 and 32, for Tuesday next. ENGLISH CHURCH SERVICES IN SECOND READING. Order for Second Reading read. MR. WALPOLE said, he rose to move SELECT COMMITTEE — Report - PUBLIC BILLS-First Reading-Office of Secre- Royal Assent-Salmon Exportation [26 & 27 с |