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Sen

I wish to make a statement to the Senate in to fore passed on the subicct of temporarily supply-
regard to a bill that is pending between the ing: vacancies in the Execative Departments, or vi
two Houses on an amendment. It is the bill
which empower the President to authorize any per-

til
son or persons to perform the duties of the bend of
(S. No. 352) to authorize the temporary supply any executive Department, or of any officer in either
of vacancies in the Executive Departments. It of the Departments, in case of a vacaney therein or

po belongs to that class of bills which ought to be

inability of such head of a Department or ollicer to discharge the duties of his office, and all lawsincon

be passed early that it may go to the Executive. sistent with the provisions of this act be, and the st It is pending now on an amendment of the samo are hereby, repealed. House of Representatives, and in the Judiciary The Committee on the Judieiary reported an Committee we have agreed to the House amend. amendment to the House amendipent, to insert th went with a slight amendment which we have at the end of the third section the following: recommended. I do not think it will take And proviled also. That in case of the death, resig

lie three minutes to dispose of it. I was very nation, absence, or sickness of the Cominissioner of

$11 Patents, the duties of said Commissioner, until a suc

Ui anxious yesterday to dispose of it, but the cessor shall be appointed or such absence orsickuess

du Senator from Vermont (Mr. EDMUNDS] wanted shall cease, shalldevolve upon one of the examiners

the to look at it.

in chief in said office, to be designated by the PresMr. BIOWARD. Let us take a vote on this ident.

shi bill Girst.

Mr. TRUMBULL. There is another slight

los Mc. TRUMBULL. If you will lay it aside

amendment before that, to insert the words for a moment after it is taken up in order to * except the Commissioner of Patents” after

the bave this amendment disposed of I will not

the word "thereot,'' in line three of section

two. object.

of Mr. HOWARD. Very well.

Mr. CONKLING. That is really part of Mr. CATTELL. I must object to taking up

the same amendment. the bill of the Senator from Michigan if it is

Mr. TRUMBULL. Yes, sir.

The amendment was agreed to.
to supplant the bill which I have moved that
the Senate proceed to the consideration of. It

The PRESIDENT pro tempore.

Tre is a bill that ought to be disposed of. I have

tion now is on concurring in the amendment of been instructed by the Committee on Finance the House as amended.

pos

COLE to insist upon the consideration of the bill. I

Mr. WILLIAMS. We ought to know what

that is. am sorry ever to interfere with a Senator, but

tho I am constrained, as a matter of duty, to do it

Mr. TRUMBULL. It is printed and on
on the present occasion.
Mr. HOWARD. I have this to say in reply:

Mr. EDMUNDS. If there is no special if I can get this bill up and read that will sat- objection, before this bill passes I should like

deb isfy me for the present, and I will throw no

to offer an amendment. more embarrassinent in the way of other gen

Mr. TRUMBULL. I do not think there is

Nor tlemen; but I want to put this bill in a way so any objection to the amendment the Senator

bids that at the proper time I can bave it passed.

from Vermont wishes to offer. I think it
Mr. CATTELL. Will the Senator from
means that now.

of 1 Michigan give way to this bill afterward?

Mr. EDMUNDS. So do I: but we have had
Mr. HOWARD. After the bill is read I will

so much discussion about these loose and of & yield.

latitudinariau powers that I wish to offer an
The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The ques-
amendment to come in at the end of the second

exn tion is on the motion of the Senator from

section, and which will read as follows: Michigan.

And no appointment, designation, or assignment I si
The motion was not agreed to.

otherwise than as herein provided in the cases inen-
tioned in the first and second sections of this act

that

wis VACANCIES IN EXECUTIVE DEPARTMENTS.

shall be made, except to fill a vacancy happening
during the recess of ibe Senate.

sim
Mr. TRUMBULL. Now I move that the The amendment was agreed to.
Senate proceed to the consideration of the

pres amendment to the bill which I have indicated,

The amendment of the House of Representa

and which I am sure will take but a moment or two. tives, as amended, was concurred in.

othe I assure the Senator from New Jersey that it WASHINGTON TARGET-SIIOOTING ASSOCIATION,

TI will take no time scarcely, and it is important

Mr. HARLAN submitted the following re

of th that it should go back to the House. port:

wher The motion was agreed to; and the Senate The comunittee of conference on the disagreeing proceeded to consider the amendment of the votes of the two Ilouses of the bill (H. R. No. 314) to

duri House of Representatives to tbe bill (S. No.

incorporate the "Wasbington Target-Shooting Asso

ciation" in the District of Columbia, having met, lion 352) to authorize the temporary supply of va- after full and frco conterence have agreed to recom

doila cancies in the Executive Departments. The mend, and do recommend, to their respective louses,

been amendment of the House was to strike out all

as follows:

That the House recede from its disagreement to the of ce of the original bill after the enacting clause amendment of the Senato to the said bill, and agree and to insert in lieu thereof the following:

perio to the silmo with an ameuilment, as follows:

Strike out of said amendment, after the word "proThat in case of the death, resignation, absence, vided,” in the first line, the following words: "The gold or sickness of the head of any executive Department annount of real property or estate to be held by the of the Government, the first or sole assistant thereof sail association shall not exceed in valuo the sum suall, unless otherwise directed by the President of of $50,000; and provided further that."

hunc the United States, as is hereinafter provided, perforın

JAMES HARLAN.

Trea the duties of such bcad until a successor be ap

GEORGE VICKERS.

The pointed, or such absence or sickness shall cease.

ROSCOE CONKLING,
Sec. 2. And be it further enacted, That in case of

Managers on the part of the Senate.
the death, resignation, absence, or sickness of the

JOHN D. BALDWIN, chief of any bureau, or of any officer thercof whose

M. WELKER,

durin appointment is not in the head of any executive

A. J. GLOSSBRENNER,
Department, the deputy of such chief or such officer.

Managers on the part of the House.

Trea: or if there be no deputy then the chief clerk of such

eight bureau, shall, unless otherwise directed by the Presi- The report was concurred in, dent of the United Statcs, as is hereinafter provided,

idle, perform the duties of such chief or of such officer

TEMPORARY LOAN CERTIFICATES.

rency until a successor be appointed or such absence or Mr. CATTELL. I now move to proceed to econd sickness shall cease. SEC. 3. And be it further enacted. That in any of the consideration of the bill (S. No. 543) to

to thi the cases hereinbefore mentioned it shall be lawful provide for a further issue of temporary loan for the President of the United States, in his disore- certificates, for the purpose of redeeming and tion, to authorize and direct the head of any other executivo Department or other ollicer in cither of

retiring the remainder of the outstanding com- ing 01 those Departments whose appointinent is, by and pound interest notes. with the advice and consent of the Senate, vested in Mr. POMEROY. I do not like to oppose is red the President, to perform the duties of the office vacant as aforesaid until a successor be appointed,

these bills from the Committee on Finance, below or the sickness or absence of the incumbent shall but they have every day after one o'clock, and sals, cease: Provided, That nothing in this act shall au- they will have during the whole session; but highe thorize the supplying as aforcaaid a vacancy for a longer period than ten days when such vacancy shall

for them to occupy the morning hour, and then in the be occasioned by death or resignation, and the officer every day from one o'clock out, seems to me to

city, s
80 performing tbe duties of the oilico temporarily be a little too much.
Vacant shall not be entitled to extra compensation
therefor,

The motion was agreed to ; and the Senate,
Sec. 4. And be it further enacted. That all acts bere- as in Committee of the Whole, resumed the

Gover

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ment more than $10,000,000. It seems to me and the proceeds applied to the payment of our estimates, both for import duties and inthere is no object in keeping the money there ; the public debt, surely it would be the part of ternal tax. This has been largely the case since at least, I know of none. No financial policy wisdom to apply this surplus to the reduction | the close of the war, so much so that estimates has been adopted which requires this money to of the debt upon which we are paying six per made to about cover current expenses and inbe kept in the Treasury.

cent. gold interest. This proposition terest on the public debt have so far exceeded Mr. CATTELL. Mr. President, I listened simple it does not admit of argument. Why, as to furnish a surplus of some three huudred with attention to the remarks of the Senator || sir, we are issuing bonds almost daily in ex- millions to be applied to the reduction of the from Mlinois when he addressed the Senate change for the seven-thirties, with interest at public debt. But it would be unsafe and unwise last week in opposition to the bill under con- six per cent, in gold. Why not use the surplus, in the face of the reductions we have made on sideration, and am surprised at his hostility to if we have any, to take up some of these notes the tax list to depend upon our receipts to pay a measure so obviously advantageous to the at the market rate, and accept a three per the $30,000,000 of compound-interest notes Government.

cent. currency loan to retire the compound. || which fall due between this and 15th October, The provisions of the bill are so simple, its interest notes. The interest on $25,000,000 and of course must be paid. purpose so obvious, and the advantage to the at six per cent. gold, estimating the premium I submit, then, Mr. President, that the Government so apparent, that I am at a loss to at forty per cent., the present rate, would be | posed loan is the simplest, easiest, and cheapaccount for the opposition of the Senator from $2,100,000 in currency, while the interest on est form of providing for these maturing obliga. Illinois. The entire question, and the only ) $25,000,000 at three per cent. currency would | tions, and trust that the Senate will disagree to one involved, is whether the Government, be but $750,000, thus making an annual saving the amendment offered by the Senator from owing as it does something over two thousand of $1,350,000. We have already, in the form Illinois as impracticable and pass the bill as million dollars, for nearly all of which it is of these temporary loan certificates, placed it came from the committee. As I stated on 8 paying six per cent. interest in gold, shall $50,000,000, and when these $25,000,000 are previous occasion, the Committee on Finance accept a loan of $25,000,000 at three per cent. added the annual saving of interest on the are unanimously in favor of the bill

, and it is currency, thus reducing the interest on that $75,000,000, as compared with our six per warmly approved by the Secretary of the Treasamount more than one half.

cent. gold loans, will be $4,050,000. Has the ury and the Comptroller of the Currency. Now, Mr. President, if there is one subject Senator from Illinois any objection to this Mr. TRUMBULL. Mr. President, I cannot which more than any other is engaging the saving of over four million dollars annually, || permit the manifest fallacy of the statement attention of the American people, and chal- or does the arithmetic he uses give a different of the Senator from New Jersey to go unchallenging the consideration of both statesmen result?

lenged. It is a most remarkable way of stating and politicians, it is how the Government can, I submit, therefore, Mr. President, that even a balance in the Treasury to compute all the while maintaining its faith with the public cred. || if we have a surplus in the Treasury it does payments that will have to be made out of the itor, reduce the interest on the public debt, and not make against the proposition to accept a Treasury and say nothing about the receipts. thereby lighten the burdens of taxation. This loan at three per cent., which may be applied The Senator from New Jersey tells us that we has been a fruitful theme for discussion in to the payment of bonds upon which we are are liable to pay $7,000,000 for Alaska ;

that Congress and out of Congress, and it has been | paying more than twice as high a rate of there is a maturing indebtedness of the United declared to be the duty of Congress to work in interest.

States which we may be called upon to pay. this direction by the great political party with But have we this large surplus of coin of Mr. CATTELL. It is paid. which the Senator and myself affiliate.

which the Senator speaks now in the Treas- Mr. TRUMBULL. That we have to pay I commend the fifth article of the Chicago | ury? If the Senate will give me their atten- interest on the debt. Surely we do. We would platform to the consideration of the Senator tion I think I shall be able to show that the not want this gold if there were none of these from Illinois. It reads :

Senator has not been as careful as he should obligations. But did the Senator tell us bow 5. The national debt, contracted as it has been for

be when he deals with figures as connected much gold we were receiving? He told us the preservation of the Union for all time to come, with the national finances; and I cannot con- he was afraid, in consequence of the reducshould be extended over a fair period for redemp- sent that his statement shall go to the country tion, and it is the duty of Congress to reduce the

tion of the internal revenue taxes, that our rate of interest tlcrcon whenever it can possibly be

without correction. The Senator proceeds upon receipts would be less. What has that to do done.

the assumption that we have something over with the receipts from customs? Did the Sen And I desire to say in this connection that ) eighty millions of gold in the Treasury belong. ator from New Jersey tell us that the duties while I hold it to be the first duty of the Gov. ing to the United States. Now, what are the had been reduced ? 'He did not say a word crnment to maintain at all hazards the faith of | facts in the case? I read from a statement about that. I stated the other day, and the the nation and meet all its obligations to the prepared for me by the Secretary of the Treas- official report of the Secretary of the Treasury public creditor, not only according to the let- ury himself on Friday last, which is as follows: will show the facts which I state, that the reter, but the spirit of the laws under which they Amountofgold in the Treasury July 1, 1868..$99,914, 105 ceipts from customs for the year ending June were contracted, I also hold that it is the From which deduct

30, 1867, were upward of $176,000,000 in Interest payable July 1, 1868. bounden duty of Congress to avail itself of all

31,000,000 Bonds of 1818 maturing July 1, 1868. ... 6,893,441

gold. What does the Senator from New Jer. honorable means to reduce the rate of interest Gold certificates.......

17,678,610 sey propose to do with that? I stated that by negotiating, if possible, a loan at a lower

during the last year, for which we had full re rate, as is proposed in the funding bill of my

$55,572,081 ports, as shown by the report of the Secretary friend from Ohio, by exchanging the five- Leaving a balance July 1........... .$44,342,024

of the Treasury in his last angual report, there twenty bonds, with the consent of the holder, Now, if you deduct also from this amount were received in gold from customs for the year for a longer bond with more distinct and deti. the $7,000,000 for Alaska it would reduce the ending June 30, 1867 ; the report for the year nite terms as the equivalent for a lower rate of amount of coin in the Treasury to about thirty- ending June 30, 1868, in full ) bave pot seen; interest, or by any other method consistent seven millions, a sum below that to which the but that is the report made to us at the with the perfect maintenance of the public faith | Senator from Illinois proposes by his amend

commencement of the present sesssion of Conand honor. ment to reduce it. Under this statement will

gress---$176,417,810 88. What does the Sen. And yet when the Finance Committee brings not the Senator from Illinois admit that his ator from New Jersey propose to do with that? to the Senate a feasible proposition to convert

amendment would prove a poor dependence Mr. CATTELL. answer the gentleman a debt upon which we are paying six per cent.

for providing $30,000,000 to meet a maturing just here. The constant practice of the Sex

obligation of the Government. compound interest into a three per cent. cur

Beside the currency in the Treasury on the

retary of the Treasury is to sell the gold down rency loan, the astute Senator from Illinois

to a point which he thinks is safe and convert 1st July was but $27,377,751, quite low enough objects, and expresses his surprise that so

it into currency and use it for current ex: in the when we consider the magnitude of the Treasimportant a bill should be called ury operations, and the fact that we owe

penses. Further, wbile I am on my feet, let morning hour. Is the Senator from Illinois $10,000,000 payable on demand and liable to gold from duties were only about one bait for

me say to the Senator that the receipts of opposed to the Government taking money at

be called for any day. three per cent. if it can get it, and reducing to

Moreover, we have at this session of Con

the month of June, 1868, what they were for that extent the loans upon which we are pay

June, 1867. The receipts have fallen off and gress made very important reductions of ining six per cent. in gold?

have been falling off, and the probabilities are ternal revenue taxes. We have taken off the that they will continue to do so. The Secre Now, the question of how much or bow

tax on cotton, and also on all manufactures, little balance shall be held in the Treasury, so making an estimated reduction of some fifty

tary of the Treasury told me that you could largely discussed by the Senator, has no bearor sixty million dollars; and although we ex

not compute at the extreme the income to ing upon this bill. That is entirely a different

at more than from ten to twelve millions per question, one which I am aware is a source of pectu so me bien crease from other sources the month. great distress to the honorable Senator, and I the next fiscal year is somewhat problematical,

Mr. TRUMBULL. I have a little informa: sincerely wish he could obtain relief in some and we ought not, therefore, run the Treasury ceipts from customs were for the fiscal year

tion on that subject. I stated what the it form. But the Senator will find that there are differences of opinion on this question ) too close.

I do not, however, sympathize with the views

ending June 30, 1867. The Secretary in his which seems so clear to him, even in this entertained by many that we shall have a

report gave us one quarter's receipts during Chamber, and it ought not to be mixed up with

the last fiscal year. The receipts from customs a proposition such as that now before the deficit at the end of the next fiscal year. The development of our great country is so rapid

for the quarter ending September 30, 1861 Senate. and its resources so immense, the enterprise

were $48,081,907 61; so that the receiptis But suppose, for the sake of the argument,

were much larger that quarter of the fiscal year that we are holding more coin in the Treasury and energy of our people so wonderful, that ending June 30, 1868, than they were the ses

our receipts are almost uniformly in excess of before.

thau is wise, that the surplus ought to be sold

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Mr. CONKLING. That would be $192,- public debt; and I do not see any project 000,000 a year.

offered that looks better than this. We have, Mr. TRUMBULL. Yes; that would be I believe, about one hundred million dollars $192,000,000 for the year if it kept on at that lying in the Treasury idle. We have certainly rate. But the Senator from New Jersey says had about that amount there lying idle for the the receipts were very small for last June. Pos- last three years. That does not appear to me sibly they may have been, I have not those to be wisdom. It is not the way an individual figures before me, but it appears from the last would manage his own affairs. An individual official report to which I had access that we whose credit was not very good, and who wished were receiving duties at the rate of $192,000,- to restore it and get it on a proper basis, would 000 a year in gold during the last fiscal year begin by paying every surplas dollar that he that ended only a few days since. Certainly had to his creditors, thereby convincing them during the first quarter of that year we received | of his honesty and his belief in his own ability more than forty-eight millions. The Senator, to pay his debts. If we sell ten millions of when I ask him what is to be done with this gold per month, as proposed by the Senator money, says the Secretary is to sell it. Well, from Illinois, we shall pay off with it fourteen I want him to sell it down to $40,000,000. || millions of our debt, taking gold at an average My amendment would do no harm, let me say | of about forty per cent. premium. In place to the Senator from New Jersey, if there is no of that we suffer this money to remain idle in gold more than is required.

the Treasury, in the vain hope, as I believe, Mr. CATTELL. You do not provide for that men who are now getting six per cent, for the payment of the $30,000,000 of compound the obligations of the Government which they notes.

hold, will give up the right to demand six per Mr. TRUMBULL. I think you will find cent. and take three per cent. enough to sell. The Senator from New Jersey I object to all these expedients. They are did not tell us what the receipts for July were. like the constitutional drunkard trying to cure We had eighty-three millions of gold on the himself by taking a little each day. The only 1st day of July belonging to the Government. cure for him is to leave off immediately. The If any of it has gone out since, it has been only cure for our troubles is for us to get back paid since this report, which was made by to a regular system and not resort to these the Secretary of the Treasury at my instance expedients. It would have been better, in my within a few days.

opinion, if the Committee on Finance had given Mr. CATTELL. That was made up to June us a general system of finance, one which would 1, I think.

have recommended itself to the common sense Mr. TRUMBULL. No, sir; made up to of everybody here, and which would have conJuly 1, and if any money has been paid, if vinced the country that we were going to do any thirty millions have been paid for interest, | something toward paying our debts. I do not it is since the 1st of July.

believe that except in a few cases anybody will Mr. CATTELL. It was not due till the 1st give up an obligation of the Government drawof July.

ing six per cent. interest for a certificate bearMr. TRUMBULL. We all know it has been ing but three per cent. There are a few cases very much the custom to anticipate the interest where it will be done. Banks that want to hold and to pay it out before the 1st day of July. I these certificates as part of their reserve will do not know whether any of the interest was do it because in that way they get three per paid in this particular instance before the 1st cent, upon their surplus capital, and it will be Jay of July; but on the 1st day of July, very convenient for some of the banks to use according to this official report, there were these three per cent. certificates. It will have $82,235,465 95 of gold coin in the Treasury || but little effect beyond here and there a bank belonging to the Government, and $17,000,000 that will be glad to use them. more for which certificates of deposit had As I have said frequently, I would much been issued. In round numbers, there were rather leave this whole business until we come $100,000,000 of gold in the Treasury ou the back next winter. Let us go before the country 1st day of July last.

on no new questions, allowing us to devote our What do you want to keep $40,000,000 of whole time to convince our constituents that the gold in the 'I'reasury at all for, except to guard || country is in a condition to be reconstructed, against a contingency? As I said the other | if we do our duty, relying also for ourselves day, my own judgment was that it was wholly | upon our acts here, upon the disposition we unnecessary to keep such a large sum as that. have shown to meet every public engagement, I think $25,000,000 would be ample, but out and our determination to keep the public faith of deterence to the opinions of others who and pay fully the public obligations. have insisted upon keeping this amount in the I have not paid much attention to the subTreasury for the last year, I have put it at ject immediately before us; but I am satis$10,000,000. How does the Senator from New || tied, as a plain business man, that if I had Jersey meet it? The official report of the money lying in my vaults, and I had creditors Secretary of the Treasury says that there have pushing me daily and doubting my intention been in the Treasury during the last two years to pay, the first thing I would do would be to more than eighty millions all the time, not with: 1) give them every cent that I had in my possesstanding the interest we have to pay. Now, I sion; and especially would I do so if I had propose that we shall sell this gold monthly in || daily and hourly large sums of money coming the manner proposed, until we reduce it down into my treasury. We are receiving money to $40,000,000. That is my proposition, and from imports and from taxes all the time, and I do not think it is fairly met by telling us what | yet we leave this money lying in the Treasury we have got to pay, and not saying a word in the vain hope that keeping it there will enaabout the receipts. The receipts in coin greatly ble us to meet specie payments. To my mind, exceed the payments in coin, and have done as the Senator from Vermont said on another so for the last two years, and I have not the occasion, that is ridiculous. When the counleast doubt will greatly exceed the payments try is in a condition to resume specie pay. in coin during the present year.

ments, this little sum of $100,000,000, much The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The ques- as it may sound, will be very small.

Let us tion is on the amendment offered by the Sen. get clear of the greenbacks, as we shall after ator from Illinois.

a while when our credit is restored, and there Mr. TRUMBULL. I should like to have will be very few demands upon the Treasury; the and nays on that.

but above all things let us have all the States Mr. CONKLING. Is it a substitute or an of the Union here in the Senate acting together addition?

with one heart and one mind for the restoraMr. TRUMBULL. It is a substitute. tion of the credit of the country, and there will

Mr. HENDRICKS. I should like to hear be no difficulty about it. I object to this measthe amendment read.

ure entirely because it is one of those tempoThe Secretary read the amendment.

rary expedients; one of those things which are Mr. CAMERON. Mr. President, it seems put forward by those who do not look at the to me proper that we should begin to pay the whole subject before them, and is unfit, il

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The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The morn- charters of the national banks continue ; and

ation which is possessed by Senators, and they ing loor having expired, the unfinished busi- in this opinion the Secretary of the Treasury | judge from general appearances; and the fact ness of yesterday is regularly before the Senate. concurs, the Comptroller of the Currency con- that there is in the Treasury of the United

Mr. CATTELL. I trust the chairman of curs, and the Finance Committee concur, all States seventy-five or one hundred million dol. the Committee ou Finance will allow this bill of whom have paid some particular attention lars in gold is a fact that imparts confidence to be disposed of. The discussion must be to the subject. . In the nature of things there to the people of this country and to the people nearly exhausted. This bill is from the same will not be a call for the redemption of these

elsewhere who hold the securities of the Unicommittee. certificates.

ted States. People generally are not sapMr. SHERMAN. If the Senator really Mr. HOWE. I cannot express any opinion posed to be acquainted with the necessities thinks we can soon get a vote on this proposi. about that. I am not a banker; I am not a or the contingencies that may arise in the transtion I shall not object : but I am inclined to Secretary of the Treasury ; I am not a finan. actions of the Government, and if the amount think the discussion will go on.

I have no cier; but I do not understand for my life how of gold was wholly withdrawn from the Treas. objection to letting the unfinished business be that opinion can be reconciled with the opinion | ury is it pot probable that such a fact would, laid aside informally for a short time.

of all those authorities expressed at the time to some extent, affect public confidence in the The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The unfin. these banks were organized. Then it was securities of the United States? I know, as to ished business of yesterday will be laid aside thought essential that this reserve should be in persons who have access to the records of the inforrnally, if there be no objection.

the vaults of the bank ; essential to the security | Treasury, who understand the condition of the Mr. HOWE. I was about saying that the of the bill-holder

finances of the country, and know exactly what Senator from New Jersey represents this merely Mr. CATTELL. It never has been required its receipts are, and what its obligations are, as a provision by which we are to borrow money to be in the vault.

this fact may not be of any considerable con at a less rate of interest than we are paying Mr. HOWE. A certain per cent. has not sequence; but in the estimation of the people,

Of course that would be desirable. If been in ihe vault of the individual banks, to be who judge generally without particular informwe can substitute a loan at three per cent. for sure, and has been provided for elsewhere, ation on the subject, the fact that there is in one at seven and three tenths or any higher but it has always been in lawful money ready the Treasury of the United States a largeamount rate of interest, that would seem to be desirable to meet the calls of the bill-holders. I can of surplus gold to meet any of the necessities of if that were all there were of it; but I do not only say it is not worth while to spend any

the Government that may arise, or any continunderstand that that is the extent of this prop- time in discussing which of those opinions is gencies that may occur, is a circumstance which osition. I do not understand that a man who true and sound; the two opinions do not har. imparts confidence to the people in the credit is borrowing money at six per cent. on time monize with each other. If this reserve is not of the Government; and it may be that if this can always afford to change that for a loan at essential to the security of the bill-holder, then gold was withdrawn from the public Treasury two or three or four per cent. on demand if he you imposed an unnecessary burden on the the securities would fall in price more than has due regard forliis credit.

banks when you incorporated them. If it is enough to counterbalance the supposed injury Mr. President, the money we borrow under essential to the bill-bolder, is seems to me you the public may receive from the retention of this bill we are to borrow on demand; and we do a wrong to the bill-holder when you take this money in the Treasury. That may not be are to borrow it not of individuals, but to bor- twenty-five millions of that security away and a very important consideration in a financial row it of banks, as I understand, practically, substitute something very different. But the point of view among those who study correctly and we are to assume a very grave obligation. real question which I wish to put to the Sena- aud carefully the condition of the Government; In addition to paying the three per cent. in. tor from New Jersey and to the Senate is | but it has appeared to me that that was a conterest which is required to be paid, we assume this : can the Government afford to become sideration which was entitled to some weight the obligation under this bill of furnishing a directly responsible, and to hold itself so, for in determining as to the value of the amendfund amounting to the whole amount of the the redemption of twenty-five millions of bank ment proposed by the Senator from Illinois. loan. $25,000,000, and we are to become re- circulation in order to save the difference be- The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The ques. spousible for the redemption of the bank cir- | tween the interest to be paid on these tempo. tion is on the amendment of the Senator Trun culation to the exact amount of this loan. So rary certifates and the interest payable on ihe || Indiana [Mr. Mortox) to the amendment of it seeing to me a proposition by which we pay compound-interest notes? If it is the opinion the Senator from Mlinois, (Mr. TRUMBULL] three per cent. for the privilege of becoming of the Senate that the Government can afford Mr. MORTON called for the year and nays; respousible for the redemption of the bank to do that, this is a good bargain to make; and they were ordered. circulation to this amount. It is true we are but I take it there is no man who has regard Mr. CONKLING. Compelled as I am to released from the payment of a larger rate of for his own credit who would assume that ob- vote against this amendment of the Senator interest on the same amount of money. That ligation upon those terms; and I should not from ludiana, I dislike to do it without assignadvantage we get. Can we afford, can the want to jinpose an obligation on the Govern- | ing briefly my reasons. As a proposition by Government afford, to assume this obligation ment that I would not think it safe for a capi- itself, looking, as it seems to me, to replacing at that rate? Mr. President, suppose we do talist to assume hiinself. It seems to me if the greenbacks with coin, I should approve it assume the obligation. When you provided || Government assumes this obligation the Gov. | but we bave legislated, and that recently, that for these banks you thought it necessary to the ernment will think it necessary to retain some greenbacks are not to be canceled or retired security of the bill-holders that they should means in the Treasury to meet this liability, gradually or otherwise, but that the volume of have a certain reserve of lawful money in their perhaps not the whole twenty-five millions, greenbacks now out is to be left outstanding. vaults at all times, to be used for the redcmp- for that is the extent of the liability ; but will In the presence of that legislation, and pro. tion of their bills when returned to them. You not the Government retain something for that posing no change, the proposition is to lay thought and you said that was necessary to the purpose ? If so, how much? Will it be half? | away idle and dead all ibe gold which shall security of the bill-holder. Now, this meas- If so, then one half of that interest is sacri- | accumulate in the Treasury beyond the cura ure proposes to take away that security, or ficed; instead of saving foor and three tenths, rent gold expenses; and with what view? $25,000,000 of that security, from the bill- you save but one half of that. If you retain Why, to leave it for some possible by-and-by ; holder, and to substitute something which is not seventy-five per cent, in the Treasury to meet for some time, we know not whet, that the lawful money, to substitute the obligations of this obligation you only make one fourth of hands of the Secretary may be untied, and he the Government, demand obligations to be the difference. That the Government should be permitted to take up greenbacks with gold

, assume this obligation, and make no provision or redeem greenbacks with gold. If it looks Mr. CATTELL. Is lawful money of the wbatever for it, seems to me to be rather risky to a restoration of specie payments it is a Government anything else but the demand | fiuanciering. obligation of the Government, and is not this This is the objection I have to the proposi

mere exceptional spasmodic effort in that direc

tion; it will have no tendency to aceelerate or the same thing?

tion of the Senator from New Jersey. Of approach to specie payments without other Mr. HOWE. It is very different. Lawful course I should bave more confidence in the things being done as cognate measures ; cer money is not only an obligation which the Govo Senator's opinions than I would in my own tainly not without removing repugnant and inernment is bound to respect and receive on ordinarily on a question of this kind, and I do consistent provisions of law. Therefore it demand, but which each Senator and every not know but that I should defer to him; but seems to me that the sole effect of the propo: business man in the country is bound to respect I have not heard him or any one else meet this sition is to bury in the ground this amoant of and to receive as lawful money on demand. objection, and therefore I have thought it proper gold, with the premium for which it might be You cannot say that of these three per cent. to state it. certificates. The Government is bound to meet Mr. WILLIAMS. Mr. President, one idea right to dispose of the gold in the mean time them when presented ; but when will they be has occurred to me bearing on the amendment until some unfixed and indefinite future period presented? Just when the holders of the bank proposed by the Senator from Illinois to which which, in point of fact, may never comes circulation want lawful money; then they will call on the banks and the banks will not be able that is as to the effect which the retention of agree with the motive, if I understand it, of to respond, because their money is in the this amount of gold in the Treasury of the Uni- this amendment, because it seems to me en: hands of the Government, and the bill-holder ted States has upon the public securities. Now, tirely inadequate to the end and not wisely must wait until the bank can collect of the Gov. is it quite clear that if the amount of gold in adapted to it, I am compelled to vote against it, ernment. How long that will take I am sure the Treasury is greatly reduced the bonds and lir. MORTON. Mr. President, one word I do not know,

other securities of the United States will be in explanation of this amendment. I stehen Mr. CATTELL. Allow me to say a word. I expressed the opinion the other day that the lie credit is very sensitive, and the people

who specie paymenis was to fix a day when the loan in this form can remain as long as the own our bonds have not that particular inform- Government would begin the redemption of its

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notes. The Government cannot redeem the ground on this subject wben it declared in these
notes without gold any more than a man can impressive words:
pay his debts without money, and the gold "We denounce all forms of repudiation as a na-
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payment of the public indebtedness in the utmost

M. good faith to all creditors at home and abroad, not What day that shall be, what time shall be only according to the letter, but according to the fixed to begin this work, I am not now pre

spirit of the law under which they were contracted." pared to say; but we are prepared to say that “Notonly according to the letter, but accordWe will begin the work of reserving the gold ing to the spirit," "the utmost good faith," for that purpose.

are the expressions of our pa rty. We have now in the Treasury a large amount one deny that, when that convention met, there of surplus gold. We have sold within one were some in the country who insisted that our year back perhaps $40,000,000 that might securities might lawfully be paid in promises for also have been reserved for this very purpose. to pay in greenbacks; and can any one deny pre We shall collect in the next year at least that tbat delaration of the convention was made $40,000,000 of gold that may be reserved for for the express purpose of negativing the idea pal this purpose ; and in the course of a year from that they were to be paid in anything else than iha this very large If coinThat was purpose provis cle a reserve for the purpose of redeeming these country with acclamation ; and I think that I notes, it would at once give the notes a credit wherever a leader undertakes to commit this had they have never had, as I believe. I heard party to any other doctrine than that we are to ury one of the ablest financiers in the country-it pay all our securities as those who took them ury was his suggestion--say that the very exist- understood they were to be paid, he goes con: the ence of a large surplus of gold in the Treasury, trary to the avowed principles of his party and had although there was po declared purpose for does it great injury. And while my distin- tise which it was held, gave a strength and sup. guished friend from Indiana [Mr. MORTON] and port and credit to the legal-tender notes from would be selected by me, perhaps, sooner than expectation of the people that at some time any other Senator to be my leader, he cannot trac that gold would be applied to their redemp- represent me or my constituents in holding the tion.

doctrine that the bonds of this country are pay: Mr. President, the Senator from New York | able in any other mode than those who received war says that we resolved that contraction should | the bonds understood and had a right to under- into What kind of contraction? Not con- stand they were to be paid ; and I am satisfied

rejo traction by redeeming our notes in gold and that any party which holds a contrary doctrine | try, then building up the credit of the Govern- | underrates the integrity of the American peo- cacy ment; but contraction by taking in these ple; the honor of this country is sacred to plat notes and putting out gold-bearing bonds. || them. They have invested their money for the paid That did not restore the credit of the country; || purpose of saving this country, and it has been to th it simply gave one form of paper for another. wrung from the sweat of honest toil at the loom

ME That kind of contraction ceased, and ought to and anvil and plow; and the people are ready a vo have ceased some time before it did. But, sir, to pay the last farthing of it.

N let us hold the gold and collect inore, and My learned friend in his argument said that be ta then say that at a certain time, a year bence the law does not require that these securities M or iwo tears hence, whatever time Congress in should be paid in coin. I do not agree with

TI its wisdom next winter may say, the Gov. him. I understand that by the custom of tion erument shall begin to redeem these notes; this and of every other Government, its promand my prediction is that before you get to ises were always payable in coin; and unless nays the time fixed the premium on gold will be some declaration is made in the law contra- TE down to almost nothing, and a green back will | vening that custom, when this country makes be as good as gold, and when a greenback is a promise it is by strict legal construction YE as good as gold it settles the question as to payable in coin. I have examined these stat- born, how the bonds are to be paid and it settles utes. The statutes says that the interest shall

Wande a hundred other difficult and troublesome be payable in coin, without saying the princi- || ler, cquestions.

pal. Why? Because it was at a time when Harla Sir, we have a debased and depreciated cur- | specie payments were suspended ; and it was

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shire, rency to-day not worth more than seventy only to give the assurance that notwithstand. bull, cents on the dollar. This lies at the founda- ling specie payments were suspended else- Wilso tion of all our financial troubles, and I believe where, and as to other contracts, this interest

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Cragi the way to begin is to begin at the foundation, as it accrued should be paid in coin. It does Grim to take some step directly in the direction of not say the principal, because that would be l Norte returning to specie payment. a work of supererogation; and no one doubted

Wink to day that we pledge the surplus gold in the that if the country was saved before the prin

So Treasury and that which shall accumulate this cipal fell due, being twenty years after date, rejec financial year and the next to the redemp- we would have resumed specie payment, and To tion of the legal-tender notes, and the very I do not doubt it now. We find, too, by looking | tion i moment that declaration becomes a law, in my | at the act of February 25, 1862, that the Gov. from opinion the premium on gold will go down one ernment has by law provided that both the Mr half.

principal and interest shall be paid in coin, for sever Mr. FRELINGHUYSEN. Mr. President, that act expressly declares that there shall be so as I understand the argument of the Senator from a sinking fund set aside, not to pay the interIndiana to be that the best mode to improve est of these bonds alone, but also to pay the and n our financial condition is to incrrease the public principal.

ment eonfidence in our ability and intention to pay. But it is argued that because the act of | lating I agree that this is the grand idea to our finan. | March 3, 1863, authorizing the issue of what third cial recovery.

We want to give confidence to are known as ten-forties, provides that the prin- 1 and 1 the people; and the suggestion made by the cipal as well as the interest shall be paid in intere Senator from Oregon [Mr. WILLIAMS] that the coin, that the omission of such a provision as twent gold in the Treasury has some value in that to the principal in the prior acts is very sig- com: regard is well taken. But, Mr. President, | nificant. The fact that the law creating the crued nothing can do so much to check the confidence ten-forties states that the principal is to be Mr. of the American people in the purpose of the paid in coin has no significance.

know Government to deal fairly with its creditors as Mr. SHERMAN. I ask my friend to allow | posed suggestions every now and then thrownout that the funding bill to be taken up. It is manifest of acc we are not legally bound to pay as the people of that the other bill is lost sight of and we canthe United States understand that we under: not get a vote on it to-day, and then his speech mode took to pay that debt. Nothing is so injurious would be nearer the question before the Senate. to this country as the suggestion that our secur- Mr. FRELINGHUYSEN, I shall detain into ti ities are to be paid in promises instead of in the Senate but a minute or two longer.

the de dollars, as made in the Senate yesterday. The Mr. SHERMAN. It is manifest that a vote || quire. Republican party at Chicago took the true cannot be obtained on this bill to-day.

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