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the cost of the production of whisky, which Mr. HOLMAN. The gentleman has spoken | branch of manufacture have been ntterly proswould be somewhere in the range between once on this subject and I have not.

trated. By the unreasonable tax imposed on twenty-five to fifty cents per gallon. By this Mr. INGERSOLL. I have not spoken on distilled spirits 'our industrial interests have reduction

you drive the illicit distiller from his this proposition to increase this tax to two been destroyed, and fraud has transferred this occupation, for crime is always more or less dollars.

branch of manufacture to the great cities. In experisive, and in proportion as you increase The CHAIRMAN. Technically the gentle- my own district gentlemen of unquestionable the profits of crime to that extent you increase man from Illinois is right, though the debate integrity have been engaged in the distilling crime itsell.

has been upon the general subject. The Chair business. The leading tirm engaged in the Nor will this reduction have the effect of therefore recognizes the gentleman from Illi- business are gentlemen of as high character as reducing the general revenue, but rather to nois.

any business men of the Northwest, and have increase it, for we see that with the present Mr. INGERSOLL. I desire to hold it, then. } for twenty years commanded the highest de. tax of two dollars per gallon we realize only I wish to correct a statement made by my col- gree of respect and confidence. They assure about thirteen million dollars of revenue, while | league, " that since the passage of the law last me that unless the tax is greatly reduced all our experience has proved that with a much | January in reference to the export of whisky honorable men will be driven from the busiless tax we bave heretofore been enabled to the manfacture of it in the Peoria district has ness, that a tax of twenty or twenty-five cents collect a much greater revenue.

ceased." It had nearly all ceased long before. per gallon while putting an end to the stupenBelieving, therefore, that public morals as Out of some twenty manufacturing houses in dous frauds which have disgraced this business well as the public revenue will both be sub- that district pot more than four or five have would manifestly increase the revenues of the served by a change of the tax on whisky, I been in eration for the past year.

country. They believe that in a country like shall vote to fix that tax at the lowest sum Now, sir, I propose to show that sixty cents ours no system can be devised to prevent named, to wit: twenty-five cents on the gal- cannot be collected at the distillery. I do not extensive fraud when the motives are so great, lon, and failing in that, shall vote for such believe that any distiller in the West can raise and when, by reason of the enormous tax, the other sum in reduction of the present tax as the necessary amount of capital with which to profits of successful fraud are so enormous. shall finally be able to command a majority run a fifteen hundred bushel house, and there It has been said that when the tax of twenty of the votes of this House.

are many larger.. A fifteen hundred bushel cents was imposed in 1862 frauds were perMr. STEVENS, of New Hampshire. Mr. house will produce six thousand proof gallons petrated. I never heard that suggested before. Chairman, I am in favor of the reduction of per day; at fifty cents per gallon tax, he will On the contrary, the universal impression in the tax on distilled spirits for the reason that have to pay $3,000 per day.

New York is the my section of the country has been ihat during the attempt to collect any considerable portion great market. He ships to New York, and he the time that tax was in operation it was faithof the two-dollar tax has proved a failure. This cannot expect to receive returns from the sale | fully and honestly collected. tax and the attempt to enforce its collection of the wbisky sooner than thirty days, if you I hold in my hand an article from a leading have defrauded the revenue, debauched the ad- grant that he finds the price in the market commercial paper in the Northwest, the Cinministration of public affairs, and sapped the satisfactory. He will have to run his house ciunati Gazette, discussing this subject fully, very foundations of official and private morals. thirty days before he gets any return. It will urging a tax of twenty cents, and protesting, Why is it, sir? In my opinion these results are l be seen ibat he has paid $90,000 tax in the in the name of the business men aod manufacthe direct consequence of a wide departure from thirty days. The actual cost of the production turers, against imposing restrictions, endless that sound maxím of political economy which

for that time is not less than $45,000 more, regulations, and infinite details, such as are seeks to keep the tax below the cost of produc- which makes $135,000; and this is only for one proposed in this bill, which would cripple this tion. Here is a tax which bears to the cost of month. Now, it often happens that the dis- branch of business and other branches of busiproduction the ratio of one to six and a half. tiller does not find the market price satisfac- ness indispensably connected with our prosSuch a disproportion cannot fail to stimulate tory, and is compelled to hold ihe whisky for perity. It is manifest that if the tax is fixed fraud and corruption to an alarming, extent, a year, and in this event he would require over at twenty cents, to be paid at the distillery, even under the most favorable administration one million five hundred thousand dollars capi- we may abandon at once the embarrassing of our revenue luws. How inuch greater and tal to do business on for oue year. At the and complicated system of regulations preinore alarming have been the frauds under the present time no distiller can draw on his com. scribed in this bill, and when the spirit has paid corrupting influences of the present Executive! mission merchant for advances on whisky the tax at the distillery it will pass untrammeled On the one hundred million gallons of whisky shipped, for the reason that the whisky is con- into the market. It is unjust to the Northwest made in the United States we collect now tinually liable to seizure, and is thereiore no that this business, connected as it is with the $12,000,000, six million gallons only paying a security.

grain-growing interest, the great interest of the tax, while ninety-four millions escape collec. Now, a word in reply to the gentleman from Northwest, should be so loaded down and tion entirely. Such is the operation of the pres- Massachusetts, [Mr. BOUTWELI..] New Eng: 1 hedged in by a systein of regulations which is ent law; and while all admit the unfortunate land has little interest in the manufacture of the inevitable consequence of the imposition influence of the Executive upon its collection, whisky. That may account for the position of of an enormous tax. Dispense with the high I am free to confess that this excessive tax is that gentleman. Now, seven eighihs of the tax; impose a tax on this article about equal wrong in principle and vicious in its practical | capital invested in distilleries is invested in to the value of the article itself, and then, the resulis. Distilled spirits, as an article of luxury, the middle and western States. Hence it is pro- motive for fraud being gone, business will should be taxed to the utmost limit consistent | posed to throw all this burden of taxation on the resume its natural and proper relations, the with its collection. Beyond that you cannot West, while the manufacturers of New England revenues of the country will be collected, and safely go, beyond that limit your law becomes have been relieved from the burden of the five the fraud and public demoralization which now worse than a failure.

percent. taxon manufacturers. This will not do. curses the whole land, rendering our legislation The Committee of Ways and Means, after | The burden of taxation should be distributed odious and disreputable, will cease. struggling to invent some method of collecting with the strictest regard to equity and justice; (Here the hammer fell.] at least a moiety of the present tax, have all bearing their fair proportions.

Mr. ALLISON. I rise to oppose the amend reluctantly acceded to the general demand My remarks in reference to the fifty-centment, and I wish to say a word or two with for its reduction. Their bill proposes a special tax are based upon the assumption that i he tax reference to the rate of tax which may be tax of sixty cents on the gallon with incidental is collected at the distillery. If one removal in fixed here by the committee. I want to call taxes bringing it up to about seventy cents.

bond shall be allowed, which ought to be done, attention particularly to this fact, that if we This is indeed a great concession. Still, I fear it would enable western distillers to do busi- fix the tax this year at twenty-five cents or that in its practical results it will be found

twenty cents we will be compelled to come to be too largely in excess of the original cost [Here the hammer fell.]

back here at the next session of Congress and of production and violation of the principles

Mr. WOOBRIDGE. I withdraw the amend. raise the tax again. If there is any one thing to which I have adverted. Therefore, sir, I ment to the amendment.

that honest people want it is stability and perhope the tax will be reduced still further, leav. Mr. HOLMAN. I move to amend the

manence, and not to be shifted and drifted ing less inducement to fraud and converting amendment by striking out “ fifty'' and insert. about by speculators who may want a high tax the stimulus that now exists, and must under

ing“ forty.

I think the tax ought to be to-day and a different tax to-morrow. I want a high tax always exist, to evade its payment. lower than forty cents a gallon. I think the gentlemen, therefore, to fix the rate of tax that We ought, perhaps, to be able to collect a tax interests of the country would be promoted if we will be willing to stand by as a permanent of bfty cents per gallon. This would give us the tax were fixed at twenty cents a gallon. measure of legislation to go into our statute. an annual revenue of $50,000,000 from this In my judgment the tax ought to be fixed at book, and that will raise the amount of revenue source alone, a sum nearly double the amount twenty cents, and in making the motion to fix that we require from these articles of luxury. which has been collected under existing laws

the tax at forty cents I am influenced by the || I submit that twenty or twenty-five cents a gal. and four times as much as we are now realiz- belief that the majority of the committee have lon is not a sufficient tax to raise the amount ing: I am willing to try the experiment of determined not to reduce the tax below forty of revenue that must be raised from the article such a reduction, in the belief that it will cents. I am, indeed, apprehensive that a

of distilled spirits. We raise to-day ten cents operate to break up the swindling rings which reduction to forty cents cannot be obtained. a gallon from oil. We have raised bitherto

twenty cents a gallon and collected every dollar all over the country, and yield such a revenue to largely engaged in the

manufacture of distilled of that tax. Gentlemen are mistaken in say. the Government as ought to be derived from spirits, and I know that not only has that intering that these indirect taxes affect this question.

est been almost destroyed by the unwise legisla i These indirect taxes have nothing whatever to Mr. INGERSOLL and Mr. HOLMAN rose. tion of Congress, but other important interests do with the amount of specific tax to be levied The CHAIRMAN recognized the former. of industry incidentally connected with that upon distilled spirits.

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What is the tax? The first is in the nature hoped, therefore, that the Committee of Ways Tellers were ordered; and Mr. Holmax and
of a license or special tax, and is distinct and and Means would have adopted some such plan. | Mr. ALLISON were appointed.
separate from a specific tax. If a man under

I find, upon an examination of the English, The committee again divided ; and the tellers
takes to manufacture whisky at all he must pay | Spanish, Italian, and many other systems, that reported that there were-ayes 34, noes 79.
the tax of four dollars per barrel before he can those two plans are found to be perfectly feasi. So the ainendment to the amendinent was
set up and run a distillery. If he runs an ble. As regards the amount of tax to be placed not agreed to.
illicit distillery then he incurs the penalty of upon this article, I regard that as a matter of The question recurred upon the amendment

sin its forfeiture of all the real estate upon which the very little importance. Under the plan here of Mr. VAN WYOK, to strike out “sixty" and distillery is situated. Under this bill a distill. || proposed, if the tax be one dollar you will not-|| insert "fifiy.”: ery cannot be run without the owner of it also collect it; if it be a half a dollar you will not Mr. INGERSOLL. I move to amend the owns the real estate upon which it is located. collect it. Suppose the tax be fixed at a half amendment by striking out “fifty" and insert

Todo Avd if an illicit distillery is permitted to be a dollar a gallon and you send out to collect it, | ing ** twenty-five.' run all title to the real estate is forfeited. how much will you collect? Probably one The question was taken upon the amend

And so in regard to the tax on dealers. That fourth, and that one fourth will be two thirds ment to the amendment; and it was not agreed is levied upon the wholesale dealer after the less than the amount which really ought to be to, there being upon a division-ayes 35, specific tax of fifiy, forty, sixty cents, or what. collected. Therefore, as I said before, the

noes 77. ever it may be per gallon, has been collected amount of tax put upon this article is a matter Mr. INGERSOLL. I move to amend the and paid. It does not go into the general of no importance. I shall vote for whatever amendment by striking out“ fifty" and insertaccount upon which frauds can be committed. sum the Committee of Ways and Means desire, ing " thirty.” Manufacturers have pa the tax of live per because I am willing to gratify their tastes-1 TI amendment to the amendment was not cent. upon their sales for the last three years. do not mean their appetites--I am willing to agreed to. Now we propose to collect a tax of only three gratify their tastes, believing that it cannot

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Mr. INGERSOLL. I now move to amend per cent. upon wholesale liquor dealers. Is it possibly make one farthing of difference whether to be presumed that there will be any great we put this tax at a dollar or at fifty cents | inserting “thirty five."

the amendment by striking out " fisty and evasion of that lax? And yet that is a distinct per gallon. That is about all I had to say on

| Urd and separate tax, entirely separate from the ihat point.

The question was taken upon the amendment specific tax opon distilled spirits, and has noth. I have tried for three years past to get one

to the amendment; and it was not agreed to, ing to do with the frauds upon the revenue. of these systems adopted. I myself introduced

there being upon a division-ayes 40, poes 79. Therefore, whatever tax is levied by law upon a bill and sent it to the Committee of Ways

Mr. HOLMAN. I move to amend the distilled spirits as a specific tax, is separate and Means ; but it is not there now. I ought || amendment by striking out “Gifty'' and insertand distinct from any other tax. Therefore not, perhaps, to speak of it, because it may be ing. twenty. my friend from Wisconsin (Mr. PAINE] makes regarded as offensive. But I beg that com.

The question was taken upon the amendment a mistake when he proposes to make the spe- mittee, between this and the next session of

to the amendment; and, upon a division, it was cific tax thirty-five cents per gallon. He says Congress, to go into some cave where the

not agreed to--ayes 23, noes 78. he is willing to make the total tax fifty cents good old Monongabela is made, and take care

Mr. BROOMALL. I move to strike out per gallon, including all the taxes. This indi- not to have with them any man who drinky | "fifty cents and insert one dollar." rect tax is a different tax entirely from, and too much; and by experiment they will find The amendment to the amendment was not has no reference whatever to, the specific tax that they can adopt an instrument that will agreed to. of sixiy cents.

save the tax on nine tenths of all the distillation. Mr. BUTLER, I move to amend the amend. The Committee of Ways and Means have The CHATRVAN. Debate has now closed ment by striking out “fifty" and inserting reported sixty cents per gallon as the specific by order of the House. The gentle!pan from " forty-two. or direct tax. I do not know that the com- New York [Mr. VAN WYCK] moves to strike The question was taken upon the amendment mittee are wedded to that particular sum. For out “ sixty," and insert“ fifty,'' as the tax per to the amendment; and it was not agreed to, myself, I am willing that the tax shall be reduced gallon. And the gentleman from Indiana [ Nr. || there being upon a division--ayes 36, noes 73. to finy cents per gallon, if that will harmonize || HOLMAN] moves to amend the amendment hy

Mr. HARDING. I move to amend the the views of members upon the subject. Now, striking out " fifiy,'' and inserting "forty." I submit that can be collected, and will be paid | The question is upon the amendment to the

amendment by striking out“fifty" and insertas any tax upou distilled spirits will be paid. amendment.

ing “forty five." There will be evasions of the law always, I Mr. SCHENCK. I have a proposition to

The amendment to the amendment was not do not care what the tax may be. There are make to the committee which I trust will be

agreed to. men in the mountains and valleys and out-of- agreed to by unanimous consent; that is, that

Mr. MULLINS. I move to amend the the way places who will seek to evade the tax,

we vote first upon sixty cents,' then on amendment by striking out “fifty' and insertlet it be whatever it may. But we can collect "fifty," and so on successively upon each

ing " forty-eight.'' a greater amount of tax at fitty or sixty cents proposition down until some amount is agreed

The amendment was not agreed to. per gallon than we can at a lower rate. upon by the committee.

The question recurred upon the amendment [Here the hammer fell.]

Mr. İNGERSOLL. I want to modify the of Mr. Van Wyck, to strike out “sixty" and Mr. STEVENS, of Pennsylvania. I desire proposition, so that we may begin at “twenty- insert “ fifty ;' and being taken, it was agreed to say but a few words. five," and vote up.

to, there being upon a division--ayes 87, The CHAIRMAN. But one minute is left The CHAIRMAN. Any proposition which

noes 37. of the time allowed by the House for debate is contrary to the ordinary parliamentary course The CHAIRMAN. The question now reon the portion of this section relating to the will require unanimous consent.

curs on the amendment of the gentleman from tax per gallon on distilled spirits.

Mr. SCHENCK. That is what I asked. Kentucky, [Mr. Beck,] to add io the end of the Mr. STEVENS, of Pennsylvania. I merely The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from

section the following: want to say a few words.

Illinois [Mr. INGERSOLL] objects. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will permit

Or said distilled spirits shall be sold and removed Mr. SCHENCK. Very well; then let the

from the premises according to law. the gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. STE- question be taken in the regular way.

Mr. BECK. Mr. Chairman, my object in vers) to proceed until some member objects. The CHAIRMAN. The question, then, is moving that amendment was this, and I think

Mr. HOLMAN, I hope there will be no upon the amendment to the ainendment. it will strike the committee as being a proper objection by any one.

Mr. INGERSOLL. When will I have an one: Distillers do not object to being held Mr. STEVENS, of Pennsylvania. I think opportunity to vote on the “twenty-five" cent responsible in the manner which this bill seeks this is one of the most difficult questions that proposition ?

to hold them, so long as the whisky remains ever arose in legislation. I think the object to The CHAIRMAN. If the amendment to in their possession, so long as it is under their be considered is not so much the amount of the amendment is not adopted, the amend- control and remains unsold ; but there are pro: tax which you levy as the mode of collecting ment will then be open to amendment.

visions in this bill-and if they are stricken the tax. My judgment is ebat if you would Mr. INGERSOLL. I ask unanimous con- out this amendment will fall-permitting diso collect the tax by one of two ways you would sent that the voting be first on “twenty-five,"

tihed spirits to be removed from the bonded be able to collect it either by virtue of the and so on up till something is agreed to. warehouses for rectification, for exportation, capacity of the still or by virtue of the capacity Objection was made.

for scientific purposes, and for other purposes, of the mash, which would, perhaps, be a little Mr. COBB. Has the word "sixty:: been more accurate. Now, from the most thorough stricken out of the section, and a blank created

by substituting other bonds. Now, it does seem

to me that while the distiller should be held examiuation to give to there to be filled ?

responsible with his distillery, his real estate,

propadoption of either of these plans you would losition of the gentleman from New York (Mr.

and everything connected with the distillery, be able to collect the tax on at least four fifths Van Wyck] is to strike out “ sixty" and

so long as the whisky remains in his possesof all the liquor in the country. Now there is insert "fifty." The amendment to the amend

sion, yet as soon as he sells it and it passes

out of his hands and out of his distillery, then not one fourth collected.

ment is to strike out “fifty' and insert" forty." neither le nor his property onght to be bound I believe, too, that if that were done there

The question was then taken upon the could be no general evasion of the law. It amendment to the amendment; and upon a

for any frauds which may afterward be comcould be so arranged that every dollar of it division there were - ayes 29, noes 63; no

mitted in reference to that whisky. He has to

sell in order to realize the tax he pays to the could be collected, except what was necessarily quorum voting.

Government.

He sells in the open market to lost by the borings of the instrument. I had Mr. HOLMAN called for tellers.

the highest bidder. He should be responsible

en is suger, I have no doubt at all that by tie the The Chaikaan. It has not. The

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so long as the property remains in his posses: practically the enactments which we repealed desire that they shall have an opportunity of sion and upon his premises ; but when removed at the beginning of the session.

paying their tax directly as they manufacture and it becomes the property of the purchaser, Mr. SCHENČK. No approach to it. the liquor, and I trust the exception proposed then the distiller and his property ought to be Mr. JUDD. The gentleman says,

to be stricken out will be permitted to remain. relieved. That is the object of my amendment. approach to it." I answer that under the 1 yield the remainder of my time to the chairThe committee can very well see that a distil- former law distilled spirits, before they paid man of the committee. ler, when he has sold his whisky, in good faith the tax, were allowed to be transported to Mr. SCHENCK. I rise to oppose the removed it according to law and it has been bonded warehouses B, and changed under bond amendment. There is no question but that carried to New York for export, for rectifica- from warehouse to warehouse ; and the chair- frauds have prevailed in all the different States tion, or any other purpose, and fraud begins man of the committee well knows, from the in the manufacture and disposal of whisky. The there under this bill he would have his dis 11 evidence before the committee, what fraud's gentleman is mistaken as to where the greatest tillery and other property held responsible were perpetrated on the revenue by this trans- amount of fraud is to be found. I believe that until the tax was paid. He ought to be re- portation system. Seventy-five out of every far more whisky bas escaped the payment of lieved from responsibility as soon as it passes one hundred per cent. of the frauds against the tax at the distillery by not getting into the disout of his warehouse and beyond his control, revenue occurred in that business of transport- tillery warehouse, but by being spirited away, and the purchaser has given other bonds. ation. When once in motion and under the smuggled off, than from any other canse. He

Mr. JUUD. Trise for the purpose of oppos- control of the parties, you never see it again. is altogether wrong in supposing that this bill ing the amendment, and indicating a substitute And the records of the Department are full of **under the pretext,as he says-that was which I think should be adopted.

fictitious, false, forged, and valueless bonds. not a very good word to use in reference to the Mr. ALLISON. Let me suggest this is not Now, then, to be sure in this bill as draughted, committee the place for the gentleman's amendment. The bonded warehouses B, under the old law, are Mr. JUDD. I used the words without any committee have provided for this in another called “ export warehouses." But under the intention of imputing anything to the compart of the bill.

language of the bill every gallon of distilled mittee. Mr. JUDD. I want to amend by inserting spirits that is made in Peoria, Chicago, or Mr. SCHENCK, I supposed he did not after the word "thereof,”' in the sixth line, the anywhere else can be transported without hav. mean to impute any purpose of the kind to the words * before the distilled spirits leave the ing to pay the tax to any part of the United committee. He is entirely mistaken, however, distillery warebouse."

States where there is a port of entry, and the as to the effect of the bill. It is not a revival Mr. ALLISON. That is not in order to the Secretary of the Treasury may establish an

of the old warehouse “B” system. You could pending amendment.

export warehouse. The moment you take out carry distilled spirits fron the distillery to The CHAIRMAN. The Chair sustains the the spirits and set it on wheels the experience | warehouse “B”and there pay the tax and take point of order.

of last year shows that it is beyond the reach it out and put it into market, and not only The committee divided Mr. Beck's of law. Neither the fact nor the effect of this ll that, but from warehouse to warehouse. Now, amendment; and there were-ayes 29, noes

is changed by saying that it must be declared. what does this bill propose? That under no 54; no quornm voting.

that it is set in motion for exportation. It is circumstances shall spirits be more than once Mr. BECK demanded tellers.

in motion and forged bonds and straw bail are removed in bond, and that under stringent Tellers were ordered; and Mr. Beck and no guaranties that it will ever reach a foreign regulations, defining the route by which it is to Mr. JUDD were appointed. clime.

go, the conveyance by which it is to be carried, The committee again divided; and there Take, for instance, a lot of spirits at Detroit, and the means by which it is to be transported, were-ayes 30, noes 64.

wh ch is a port of entry. If there is any

dis- and various other regulations are thrown about So the amendment was rejected.

tillation there all taxes are avoided by stor- it. Next to that, it can only go from the disMr. SCHENCK. The committee have in. ing it in export warehouses and then exporting tillery warehouse to the export warehouse, and structed me, in order to remove all ambiguity

it across to St. Clair, in Canada; next you when it goes to the export warehouse it is to that may be supposed to exist, to move the

hear of it it is in Portland, Maine, on its way be actually exported from the country, There

by vessels to be landed at New York. It escapes are only three other instances in which it can Insert after the word "thereof," " before removal

just as the Dubuque whisky did, becomes lost leave the distillery warehouse without payment. from the distillery wirehouse, except as ocberwise

in the mazes of the network of transportation, One is for redistillation into alcohol, which is provided by this act;" so it will read:

paying no tax whatever. Now, you say it is to be exported; another is to go into medical That there shall be levied and collected on all dis- | only for parposes of export. That sounds very preparations and compounds that are to be tilled spirits on which the tax prescribed by law has not been paid a tax of fifty cents on each and every

well; but under the pretense of exportation exported; and the other is to go to scientitic proof-gallon, to be paid by the distiller. owner, or any every gallon escapes paying tax. Now, I am institutions, for the preservation of objects of perso having possession thereof, before removal from the distillery, warebouse, &c.

not prepared for that. I desire no exception in natural science; all these being guarded in

favor of spirits. Let it pay the internal revenue such a manner as to prevent the possibility of Mr. Chairman, the object of that amendment tax the same as other manufactures.

those frauds, which are easy uuder the present is apparent. I do not believe the amendment In addition to this “ehange of base' in dis

law. is necessary. If gentlemen will look at page | tilled spirits the bill allows it to be taken from Now then, if the gentleman's amendment 31 and succeeding pages they will find the only the warehouse of the distillery to any other prevails, what does it mean, and what will be exceptional case in which whisky can be removed warehouse for redistillation. And here you ihe effect? Simply that you shall strike down from the distillery warehouse is amply provided | find the little joker hiding in a new place. This the whole export trade of the country, and the for . But to remove all question about it the

bill provides for its return to the manufacturer's ll question is whether this House is prepared to committee propose to insert in the first section warehouse. It goes out "distilled spirits,' do that. We are sending abroad now some a provision declaring in express terms that the and it coines back water, perhaps, or may be four or five million gallons of alcohol-it has tax is to be paid at the distillery warehouse, good corn juice is turned into molasses ruin. run up now to above four millions—and two. except in such cases as may be otberwise pro- Who knows or can tell what changes it takes million gallons of rum spirits. This has been vided for in this act.

on? And can you guard against this by bond l gradually increasing. Up to 1867 there never Mr. JUDD. I move to amend the amend. and penalty? I think not. At any rate if you had been more than three million gallons carment by. striking out the words " except as get your tax before it moves you have no neces. ried abroad in any one year.

But within the otherwise provided by this act. Adopt my sity for such enactments. It is no answer to last two years it has been increasing-to say amendment, Mr. Chairman, and the annend say you will destroy the export business. Let nothing of any frauds that may have been commeut proposed by the chairman (Mr. SCHENCK) this manufactured article like all other manu- mitted, swelling the apparent quantity carried will be in the exact language of the amendment factured articles that have paid an internal abroad-until the actual exportations of these proposed by me as a substitute when the gen. revenue tax, when complete evidence of its spirits have been contributing some five million ileman from Kentucky (Mr. BECK) had the actual exportation is furnished, be entitled to dollars or more toward paying our debts abroad, floor. It presents to the committee the direct have that tax refunded. The chances for fraud with a probability of a grenter increase. The question whether distilled spirits shall pay the are too great to authorize us to try again the Committee of Ways and Means have desired, tax at the place of manufacture, and before any experiment of "transportation in bund" for while they closed every avenue as much as legis. removal for any purpose, or whether the com any purpose whatsoever.

lation perhaps possibly can close it against fraud, modity shall be allowed to start on its errand (Here the hammer fell.}

at the same time not to strike down this interof dodging the law and avoiding taxation under Mr. MAYNARD. Iflunderstand the amend- est in the country. If the gentleman's motion the delusive expectation that when once in ment to the amendment I am opposed to it. prevails, then every gallon of whisky must pay motion dishonest officials will even reach it. The only interest that I have as an immediate The tax at the distillery, and there can be no lithe chairman of the committee [ Mr. Schenck) representative on the subject of distillation export trade whatever from this country in will detail to this committee the evidence the relates to some very small manufacturers, mak- spirits, because, the tax being paid, we cannot Committee of Ways and Means has accumu- ing whisky by what are known as copper stills compete with the production of alcohol and lated showing the transportation frauds, there at the rate of perhaps not more than fifty bar- rum abroad, would not be one moment's hesitation in adopt- rels a year. So far as they are concerned I [Here the hammer fell.] ing the amendment I propose. In my opinion, || do not desire to exempt them from any im- Mr. JUDD. I withdraw the amendment. Mr. Chairman, the safety of the revenue from position

that is proposed to be placed on • Mr. LOGAN. I renew it. It is well known this source absolutely demands the prohibition this business generally. I simply desire that to the committee that on this point I reserved of transportation until the taxes are paid they should have the privilege of manufactur- the right to differ from them. I will commence Tliere is no disguising the fact that the provis- ing on precisely the same terms as those who by saying that the exportation of whisky is a ions of this bill, as they now stand, restore manufacture in larger quantity: Therefore I ll thing unknown. Hence there is no necessity

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for an export warehouse for whisky. That is off, and that collectors and assessors shall not

from the bonded warehouse for other purposes the simplest proposition in the world.

pass from one district to another as they have than export. Under this bill it can be iaken Mr. LYNCH. Do I understand the gentle | been permitted to do heretofore, to exercise out for only one purpose, that is, for export, man to say that there is no such thing as the doubtful authority

When it once gets the export stamp upon it exportation of distilled spirits to be provided [Here the hammer fell.]

and goes into the export warehouse, it cannot
for in this bill?

Āir. BUTLER. I think I may speak on this be removed thence under the provisions of this
Jr. LOGAN. I said whisky, sir.

question with as little feeling as any gentleman, bill, except to go out of the country.
Mr. LYNCH. That is distilled spirits. for the reason that I do not know of a single Mr. LOGAN. It can be taken out for redis.

Mr. LOGAN. Well, I understand that distiller in my district. I agree with the gen- tillation,
whisky is distilled spirits, if you

will allow me. tleman from Illinois [Mr. LOGAN) that whisky The CHAIRMAN. Debate is exhausted. BLOGA Mr. LYNCH. I want to inform the gentle || is not exported as an article of export; but Mr. FARNSWORTH. I withdraw

my man that not only alcohol

rum is exported, and that alcohol is exported. || amendment. Mr. LOGAN. The gentleman cannot give Mr. LOGAN. Certainly,

Mr. ALLISON. I renew the amendment. por moito
me any information on the subject except what Mr. BUTLER. And the single question is | Mr. Chairman, when this bill was prepared BE
he can find in the reports in reference to ex: whether we propose to break up the export || the Committee of Ways and Means, of course,
portations, and I can find it there as well as trade.

did not know what would be the amount of the
he can.
I assert here that there is no such Mr. LOGAN. I do not.

tax, that being a question for the determina-
thing known as the exportation of whisky, Mr. BUTLER. I do not know what the tion of the House. The Committee of the
unless it is smuggled. Then if there is not gentleman's amendment will be. I hope he Whole having now fixed the tax at fifty cents
there is no necessity for providing that you does propose to sustain the export trade, and I per gallon the question to be determined is
may export distilled spirits. Why not provide have no doubt he thinks he does. But if you whether or not western distillers can afford to
that you may export alcohol and rum, the only || provide for this tax to be paid at the distillery | pay the tax at the still and transport their
two articles of 'distilled spirits that are ever ihere is an end of the export trade. You have product to market. For myself. I am rather

TA exported ?

almost killed it now by your special taxes on inclined to believe they can do so; and the Now, I desire to state my reasous for this the manufacture. In order to make any spirits only object I have in renewing the amendment amendment. If the tax is paid at the distil- for export, the manufacturer must pay all these of the gentleman from Illinois [Mr. Farss. lery, then if a man wants to export alcohol or taxes, the tax on the still, on the distillery, and WORTH) is to suggest that this subject be for rum, let him buy his whisky with the tax paid four dollars a barrel besides. They must pay the present passed over until we reach the on it, redistill it, export it, and bring forward about sixteen or eighteen cents a gallon before question of bonded warehouses. We must proof that it bas actually reached the foreign it can be exported, even under this bill. Now, have bonded warehouses at the distillery, and port of delivery, which will satisfy the Secre. this renders the export trade exceedingly diffi- it may be we shall decide to have bonded tary of the Treasury, and he can get the tax cult to be carried on. If you put any other warehouses for other purposes. My own im: retunded to him. Then you will get all the tax restriction upon it it is gone forever.

pression is that we ought not to have bonded ou the whisky in this country, and you can get it Now, the gentleman says that we had better warehouses for redistillation, but we may conin no other way. One gentleman has remarked pay the value of the whisky or the rum ex- clude to have them for exportation. When that that would interfere with exportation. I ported than have any such thing as an export that question shall be reached, if it should be say it would not. I have an amendment already irade in the article. I might agree that if the found that sufficient safeguards cannot be pro prepared to this bill which I propose to offer mere value of the rum exported were the only | vided, we can then arrange the matter. The when we reach that portion of the bill which consideration the gentleman would, perhaps, total amount of export is not very large, and relates to exportation, providing for the ex: be correct. But the rum is absolutely necessary I will say with reference to the plan of this portation of alcohol and rum in such a manner for many different foreign trades of the United bill that in my judgment it entirely differs from that it can be legitimately exported and still States. Cut off the export trade in rum and any bonded warehouse system which we have have the tax on whisky collected. I propose alcohol and you kill your Mediterranean trade; hitherto adopted. to alter the provisions of the bill so that we you kill most of the trade on the Eastern con. A man who bonds his goods must give a bond may get some revenue from this article.

tinent. So necessary is rum to the trade with in double the amount of the tax, and that bond Let me put a case. Suppose we provide, as Africa that some years ago, when I was aiding is never released until the tax is paid or the this bill provides, for the withdrawal of whisky in prosecuting a slaver, where it was claimed whisky is exported by proper certificate. I from bonded warehouses for redistillation into that the voyage was an honest voyage, we pro- wish to call the gentleman's attention to the alcohol. That whisky goes to New York. duced testimony to show that it could not be fact that the system of bonded warehouses here What is to prevent it from being changed in its an honest voyage to Africa because no rum was proposed is the precise system now adopted in course on the way, the export stamp torn off, on board ship, and that, therefore, it must be a The custoin-house ; and this very day an im. and that whisky put upon the market? And slave voyage.

porter of brandy or of any distilled spirits can how are you to detect it? If you provide for Mr. PRICE. Does the gentleman mean to receive them in New York and transport them the transportation in this country of whisky in say that no voyage to Africa can be an honest in bond, in casks or boxes, to Chicago or any bond, you have not provided properly against || voyage unless the ship carries out rum and other western city. I have never heard of any enormous frauds that have been and may be brings back negroes?

frauds in that system of transportation. Withcommitted against the Government-froin three Mr. BUTLER. No, sir. The fact is that out paying duty they can now transport hraddy to four million gallons of alcohol and rum. sla vers do not take out rum, while the honest and wine imported from abroad in bond from Now, if the Government should pay for that traders do, bringing back palm oil, ivory, &c. New York to the interior. A bond is given three or four million gallons entirely out of Some gentleman says let them take out gold. for the payment of the duty. Nothing is more the Treasury they would make money by it, They cannot trade with gold because gold dust provided you collect all tax on distilled spirits || is one of the things they bring back from Af

common, and the gentleman knows it, than the

transportation of these articles in bond from before leaviug the distillery warehouse for any rica. They cannot make a profitable trade the Atlantic seaports to the great interior cities. purpose.

with that country without using rum. If the I want the gentleman to examine this system If you require all the tax to be paid at the House chooses to break down that trade, be carefully. I am not certain I will not more to distillery, then whenever whisky comes from it so.

Strike it out if there is any great fraud to be

perpetrated under it. has been paid prior to rectification, as is a mere same vessel that takes out the rum takes out Mr. LOGAN. Foreign liquors pay a duty pretense now. If it is transported without pay- also missionaries?

of two dollars and a half to three dollars ing tax to be exported under whatever name Mr. BUTLER. Very likely; and if you cut gallon, and we have reduced the tax on disyou please to call it, you will only have a repe- off the trade with Africa you may cut off the filled spirits to filty cents per gallon. We thus cition of many of the frauds heretofore com- carrying out of missionaries. But this is a leave a great difference between the duty on mitted.

diversion from the question which I am dis- the foreign liquors and the tax on distilled We do not want to see these frauds perpe. cussing. This is a very vital question to the spirits manufactured here. trated as heretofori, I propose no hardship interests of navigation in this country. We Mr. ALLISON.

Undoubtedly we have upon these distillers. They passed a resolu. I have already struck blow after blow at the for- assimilated our tariff laws and our internal-tas tion in their committee declaring " that this eigu trade of the United States. If you want laws.

Having put a tax of two dollars on transportation should not be allowed, if we to give it another blow, I cannot object. If whisky, we placed a duty of $2 50 on foreign would prevent fraud."

We should not be in the country can stand it, we of New England spirits. We can reduce that when we come te favor of making a law less stringent on this can; but one thing is certain: no country has consider the tariff. question than the men engaged in distilling ever yet prospered without a foreign trade, and [Here the hammer fell.] have asked us to do. take it this is generous this country cannot do so.

Mr. SCHENCK. There seems to be, u beyond that which would be ordinarily deemed Now, sir, I have examined this bill care- Chairman, almost an infatuation on some su generosity.

fully, because my district and my State have jects connected with whisky. I do not want If you want to collect your tax, you must an interest in the export trade. The bill is

a good many specters stalk about and a go provide for its collection in the manner I have guarded carefully, and although the ingenuity

many spirits are abroad, because a good proposed. I have another amendment which of fraud is almost infinite, I can see no way in of the spirit of the country has been ahr

without being held to a proper restricte which I propose at the proper time to offer as nue by allowing this transportation for export

But so far as this matter of bonded w an amendnient of the committee, providing only; because the leak heretofore has arisen

houses is concerned, let me tell gentleme! that all this swarm of officers shall be stricken from the fact that whisky could be taken out

which is proposed in this bill is nothing

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the present bonded warehouse system. What no great hardship, it seems to me, to require l experience of the Government is that there is was a great source of fraud upon the bonded these men, if they wish to export, to agree to no danger of fraud. I have seen no revenue warehouses B before, or under the present law, pay the tax in the first instance the same as if officer, either in Washington or elsewhere, wlio was the removal of liquor for the purpose of ihey were manufacturing anything else, and claims that the transportition of goods in this rectification and not putting it back, or putting when they prove it give them a drawback. way under bonds hus resulted in frauds. Now, back something different, or making that a Secure the Government its revenue and cut off tben, if we can transport imported goods, cover for various kinds of fraud. There is no all this machinery and all opportunity for fraud including distilled spirits, from an Atlantic allowance of removal for rectifying at all under by taking the spirits from the first warehouse. port of entry to an interior port of delivery, this bill.

Mr. BUTLER. The difficulty with the draw. and there require the payment of the duties on Mr. LOGAN. I ask whether or not, in the back is, men export a great deal of whisky and arrival, I do not see why we cannot, under the removal of spirits in bond heretofore, they did never pay any tax. They want the Government stringent provisions of this bill, transport disnot defraud the Government by triplicate per: to pay the drawback.

tilled spirits from any interior portion of the mits of collectors ?

Mr. FARNSWORTH. Mr. Chairman, I do country to the sea-board for the purpose of
Mr. SCHENCK. Yes, sir; and if the gen- not see how that can be done under this bill. exportation.
tleman will be patient I will come to that if I Gentlemen say that we can collect under this Mr. COVODE. I heard the chairman of
have time in my five minutes. I say there is l bill all the tax on whisky. If you collect all the Committee of Ways and Means, as well as
no removal for rectifying; and no man can the tax before it is removed from the distillery | the gentleman from Missouri, say that under
rectify unless he takes whisky tax paid. I do not see how they can export whisky that the bill lately passed, foreign spirits could be

How is it in regard to duplicate and tripli- has not paid the tax. But the tax will not be transported in bond. That is a mistake. That
cate bonds? All that is distinctly guarded collected by a long shot if you allow them to was stricken out, and the bill relates to other
against in this bill. If gentlemen will look at remove the whisky from the still. There is merchandise, not spirits.
section fifty-two and the four or five following where the fraud comes in every time. I am in Mr. PILE. I was now speaking of the law
sections they will see how the committee have favor of commerce, but we are not legislating as it exists at present, and not of the bill that
provided against fraud. You can remove it, here in the interest of commerce or of whisky. | passed the House some days ago.

We are but when once removed bonds are to be taken It is not for the purpose of promoting com- transporting from New York to St. Louis every in triplicate. Then every person is held re- merce, but of collecting the tax on whisky that week imported wines and brandies paying the sponsible along tlie route from the distillery we are legislating. Then let us tax it before duties when we withdraw them at the warewarehouse to the exportation warehouse. It they remove it. If they can prove that they house at St. Louis under the bond given in is all named in the bill. It is a perfect guard, have paid the tax when they want to export New York. And while it may be true, as and has no likeness to anything contained in the liquor give them a drawback. By putting stated by the gentleman from Illinois, that we the present law.

the tax so low now that they can pay it there are not legislating specifically in the interest Now, what is the present law in regard to will be no pretense that manufacture

of commerce in this bill, yet when our comother matters? The other day the cities of afford to pay it, and let him wait a little while merce has been driven froin the seas by the war Cincinuati, Chicago, and perhaps other points if he is going to export his liquor as the man- and by our unfriendly and narrow minded legisat the West, were thrown open so as to have ufacturers of any other article do.

lation on the subject of commerce, we ought removed to them from the sea board all sorts Mr. INGERSOLL. How long will the Gov. not in this bill to strike an additional blow of goods, wares, and merchandise, including ernment retain the tax in its vaults before it that will crush out and extirpate $4,000,000 foreign liquors of every kind, with next to no allows the drawback?

of foreign trade, thus increasing the balance guards thrown around them, the tax to be paid Mr. FARNSWORTH. Until the man moves of trade against us, to take gold out of the when they reached a point in the interior, his whisky, until he puts it on board ship and country and send gold up and Government which is made for that purpose a port of entry. starts it for a foreign port.

securities down. It is the blindest policy of On the way, before the duty is paid, they are Mr. INGERSOLL. That will not do. You legislation ever adopted in any country. liable to all these frauds, tenfold more than are must wait until you know it has reached its [Here the hammer tell.] now possible under the transportation of dis- destination.

Mr. FARNSWORTH. I withdraw the tilled spirits at home. Thus, while you encour- Mr. FARNSWORTH. Very well; let the amendment. age almost as it were every sort of looseness gentleman who framed the bill put it in shape. Mr. SHELLABARGER. I renew it. Mr. in reference to foreign goods you propose to

I do not care if it takes twelve months. If a Chairman, with my imperfect knowledge in break down entirely all that relates to the man wants to export whisky let him pay the regard to matters of this sort I would not feel exportation of a portion of the products of tax on it, as every other manufacturer does justified in saying & word about it were it not our own country. before he moves his goods.

that a very large interest in my district, which Now, sir, I am perfectly willing that the Mr. PILE. I rise to oppose the amend. has come to me personally since I returned to Committee of the Wbole shall settle this ques- ment; and I avail myself of the opportunity of my seat in the House, has implored me to pay tion as they please, only I want them to under- correcting a misstatement made by the chair. some attention to this matter now under consid. stand what ihey are settling. If the amend- man of the Committee of Ways and Means- eration. The representations that are brought ment which is proposed prevails, then there made wholly unintentionally, of course. 1 to me by very intelligent and very largely excan be no more exportation of alcohol or rum understood him to say that under the bill which perienced men engaged in this traffic, and also from this country. It puts an end to it entirely. passed some ten days or two weeks ago, goods, my own personal observation on this subject, That is the question gentlemen are to meet. wares, or merchandise, including distilled spire compel me to conclude that this whole plan of I do not care whether it goes from Boston or its, could be transported from the sea-board || permiuing whisky to be removed in any shape, New York, or whether there is any interest in ports of entry to the interior ports of entry or under any possible provisions of law, from the interior of the country. • Let it go from without restriction or any bond or guarantee the place oi distillation, is to leave open the whatever quarter it may, it is just so much that the Government should not be defrauded most dangerous avenues and means of fraud contributed toward turning the balance of of the duties on these goods. Distilled spirits from which the Government is now suffering trade in our favor and helping us pay our for- are especially excepted from that bill, and the so much. ệign debt. I therefore think it expedient, and transportation of all goods is to be under proper My friend here, (Mr. SCIENCK,) who has, I voted in the committee to sustain the idea bonds. I have the bill in my hand as it passed perhaps, bestowed more labor upon this subject,

were throwing every guard | the House, and the language is, that any and who probably understands it better than around the Government to secure its revenue goods, wares, or merchandise, other than dis- any other man in the country, will admit that from this source, it would be unwise to break tilled spirits."

it is impossible for any ingenuity or any skill down a trade which was so much to the interest Mr. SCHENCK. Was not that put in dur- to completely provide against the means of of the people of the country.

ing the progress of the bill through the House? fraud that are necessarily furnished by any bill [Here the hammer fell.] Mr. PILE. It was.

which, like this, embraces in it permission for Mr. FARNSWORTH. “I ask my colleague Mr. SCHENCK. It certainly was not in transporting, throughout the continent, and to withdraw the amendment. the original bill.

without having paid the tax, all the distilled Mr. LOGAN. I withdraw it.

Mr. ÅLLISON. I was speaking of the law spirits made in the country. The very nature Mr. FARNSWORTH. I renew it. I desire as it exists to-day, and not of any bill that has of the case exciudes the conclusion that the to say that if the bill is not now so framed as passed the House.

laws can restrain these frauds when we keep to provide for a drawback for export it cer

Mr. PILE. I was correcting a statement in mind the ingenuity of fraud and the cortainly can be so framed. I desire to say, fur- made by the chairman of the committee. Iruptibility of the instruments which the Gov. ther, that we are legislating now for the pro- wish to say in addition that as the law exists ernment is compelled to employ in enforcing tection of the revenues of the Government. Ito-day all goods, wares, and merchandise of the law. That old trinity of “Ls" which do not understand this legislation to be in the every character, including distilled spirits and says, "Love laughs at locks," has already, in interests of distillers; it is not for the purpose all kinds of imported liquors can be trans- the Government's experience in failare to of promoting the manufacture of whisky; but ported from any sea-board port of entry-New defeat these frauds, been duplicated in another we say to these men, -- You may manufacture York, Boston, or any other sea-board port- to which says, "Liquor laughs at laws." The it, but you must pay." We are legislating St. Louis, Cincinnati

, or Chicago, without the chairman of the committee assures us that his now for the purpose of securing to the Gov- payment of duties, upon the owner, agent, or bill contains the most stringent provisions and ernment this tax.

We are hedging these men consignee giving a bond to the custom-hoose requires ample bonds before any removal, that about in every possible manner, as though we officer at such Atlantic port of entry for the a particular route shall be taken in going to the 'were legislating against scoundrels and knaves. payment of the duties when the goods arrive, warehouse, and all that. I do not maintain We are not, then, in their interest, and it is and under this system of transportation the that his bill is not stringent, or is not the best

40TH CONG, 2D Siss.No. 214.

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