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ence to which this stamp tax is most inconven- the-retail price or value of one dollar, for each and Mr. SCHENCK..By regulation and decision ient had been sought out to be subjected to it.

every fifty cents or fractional part thereof over and of the Department such matches are counted Mr. Chairman, these stamp duties are a relic

above the one dollar, as before mentioned, an addi-
tional two cents.

as two matches.
of a departing system which has been in vogue
And inserting in lieu thereof the following:

No further amendment being offered, the in England and France. The stamping system

To be fixed by the manufacturer of the article, and

Clerk read the next paragraph, as follows: in those countries has almost thrown out of stamped or printed thereon, the sum of twenty-five

For wax tapers, double the rates herein imposed commercial circulation those articles upon cents, one cent; and where such packet, box, bottle, upon friction or lucifer matches; on cigar lights, vial, or other inclosure, with its contents, shali

mado in part of wood, wax, glass, paper, or other which stamps have been required. When our exceed such retail price or value of twenty-five cents,

materinls, in parcels or packages containing twentyinternal tax law was first framed, precedents for each and every additional twenty-five cents, or

five lights or less in each parcel or package, one cent. were looked for, and the English law being fractional part thereof, an addition of one cent. No amendment being offered, the Clerk read convenient this system was adopted. Gentle

Mr. BARNES. I move to strike out "retail" the next paragraph, as follows: men have referred to the large profits which I and insert “wholesale." Mr. Chairman, I do When in parcels or packages containing more than they supposed to be made in the manufacture not think that this question is understood by the

twenty-five and not more than fiftylights, two cents, of such articles as those embraced in the para- House. Of course I have no idea that I can

Forevery additionaltwenty-five lights or fractional

part of that number, onecent additional, graph now under consideration. Now, sir, I nake it better understood than it is now. I Mr. SCHENCK. I move to strike that out having investigated this subject, I say upon the will not take up the time of the committee in and insert in lieu of it as follows: honor of a gentleman that there is to-day a

arguing the question. It may appear that my Forevery additional twenty-five lights or fractional smaller percentage of profit upon this branch particular advocacy of subjects pertaining to part of that number, an addition of one cent. of trade than upon any other in this country this class of cases has some personal motive The amendment was agreed to. with which I am acquainted. Many articles in it; and I desire to say that I am a whole No further amendment being offered, the which a few years ago were a source of profit sale merchant in New York, and that hand- Clerk read the next paragraph, as follows: not only to the proprietors, but to the adver- | ling this class of cases I understand the incon- Playing-cards. For and upon every pack not extising press of the country, are now yielding venience of this manner of paying duties. I do

ceeding fifty-two cards in number, irrespective of no profit or are making bankrupt those who not come here asking favors. I have not asked

price or value, five cents. own them. So much with reference to the that this class of manufactured goods or that

Mr. ROBINSON. I move to insert after ability of these articles to pay the taxes here these merchants shall not be taxed as severely

that paragraph the following: imposed upon them. I have proposed to the as any others. But I do desire to present their

Provided. That no stamp duty shall be required on Committee of Ways and Means to fix upon

any certificate or receipt given for goods received claims, as they have requested, upon the siro- by any pawnbroker where the money advanced upon these articles an ad valorem or specific tax,

ple ground of equity. They merely wished to said goods does not exceed --- dollars. They have not chosen to meet the question in be relieved from arrogance and trouble, and

Mr. GARFIELD. I rise to a point of order. that way. Why is it, sir, that under this bill the loss of stamps. They desire that Congress,

The amendment is not germane. an article of luxury is taxed one half per cent., which makes laws now so onerous against

Mr. ROBINSON. It is to be added to the while one of these articles which are in many them, should understand that they were pay- provision in regard to stamps; therefore I cases articles of necessity are taxed from six ing two or three taxes on their products. They think it germane. I do request the Committee per cent. to fifty per cent. In the whole enupay the wholesale druggist's tax, and the retail

of the Whole to hear me one moment on this meration I cannot find a single article which is tax, as well as their own tax.

subject. It belongs to the stamp law, and taxed less than six per cent. I ask gentlemen

Mr. STEVENS, of New Hampshire. Has | should go in somewhere. of the House to divest themselves of the pre

the gentleman any other objection to this mat- Mr. ALLISON. If I understand it, it rejndices attempted to be created by the remarks ter of taxation except the expense of the

lates to stamps on receipts. gratuitously offered by gentlemen on the other mechanical labor of putting the stamps upon

Mr. ROBINSON. It is on certificates or side, and to look at this business in the same the articles ?

receipts given by pawnbrokers. manner they look at the business of the manuMr. BARNES. There is a great deal of

Mr. ALLISON. We have stricken out facturer of patent leather, the manufacturer of

expense. It will appear that these articles are stamps on receipts entirely. pianos or of other articles mentioned in the small in amount. They have to be spread

Mr. ROBINSON. This is certificates. I hill. Is it fair? Is it right? Is it becoming over immense premises in a damp state. The think the committee will see its importance. practical men to make the invidious discrim

room for conducting business of this kind Mr. GARFIELD. I withdraw my objection. ination proposed in this bill? is large. Superintendence for the applica

Mr. ROBINSON. In a great many cases [Here the hammer fell.]

tion of these small stamps is large. The persons go'to pawnbrokers with a very small Mr. Barnes's amendment to the amend- manual labor in applying them is great. Then pledge, something of the value of a dollar, perment was not agreed to. there are the losses of stamps, which cannot be haps, upon which they receive five or ten cents

. Mr. SCHENCK's amendment was agreed to. exactly estimated, but it is a very large item. I believe it is now the requirement to put & The Clerk read as follows:

Then in addition to all those annoyances to five-cent stamp on the certificate which the Perfumery and cosmetice.

these reputable manufacturers comes in the pawnbroker gives, so that the person who For and upon every packet, box, bottle, pot, vial, fact that they pay, in no instance, less than six makes the pledge gets his five or ten cents and or other inclosure, containing any essence, extract, per cent., and as high as fifty per cent. on the then has to pay an additional five cents for the toilet water, cosmetic, hair-oil, pomade, hair-dresstop of special tax.

stamp. This makes it ruinous to these poor ing, hair restorative, hair dyo, tooth-wash, dentifrice, tooth-paste, aromatic cachous, or any similar articles, [Here the hammer fell.]

people. There is a story of a woman who, every by whatsoever name the same heretofore have been, T'he amendment to the amendment was morning after breakfast, pawned her husband's now are, or may hereafter be called, known or distin

rejected. guished, used or applied, or to be used or applied as

razor, and redeemed it so that her husband would perfumes or applications to the hair, mouth, or skin, Mr. SCHEYck's amendment was then adopted, have it the next morning for shaving again. made, prepared, and sold or removed for consump

No further amendment being offered, the That, perhaps, is an extreme case, but there tion and sale in the United States, where such packet, Clerk read the next paragraph, as follows:

are cases where articles of the value of a dolbox, bottle, pot, vial, or other inclosure, with its contents, shall not exceed at the retail price or value

Friction matches, or lucifer matches, or other

lar upon which they receive ten or fifteen cents the sum of twenty-five cents, one cent. Where such

articles made in part of wood, and used for like pur- are pledged again and again, and as the law is packet, box, bottle, pot, vial, or other inclosuro,

poses, in parcels or packages containing one hundred now interpreted-and I do not think the Com. with its contents, shall exceed the retail price or

matches or less, for each parcel or package, one cent. value of twenty-five cents, and shall not exceed the

No amendment being offered, the Clerk read of this interpretation-these pawnbrokers have

mittee of Ways and Means have been informed retail price or value of fifty cente, two cents. Where such packet, box, bottle, pot, vial, or other inclogthe next paragraph, as follows:

to affix a five-cent stamp on the certificate, and ure, with its contents, shall exceed the retail price

When in parcels or packages containing more than these poor people have to pay for it. It is or value of fifty cents, and shall not exceed the retail

one hundred and not more than two hundred matches, price or value of seventy-five cents, three cepts. for each parcel or package, two cents.

wrong to compel these poor people to pay this Where such packet, box, bottle, pot, vial, or other inclosure, with its contents, shall exceed the retail Mr. SCHENCK. I move to strike that having put the chairman of the committee (Mr; price or value of seventy-five cents, and shall not exceed the retail price or value of one dollar. paragraph out. four cents. Where such packet, box, bottle, pot, The motion was agreed to.

SCHENCK) in a good humor a minute ago, I vial, or other inclosure, with its contents, shall ex

trust he will allow me to make this amend

The Clerk read the next paragraph, as follows: ceed the retail price or value of one dollar, for each

ment either in the place I have indicated, or on and every fifty cents or fractional part thereof over And for every additional one hundred matches or and above the one dollar, as before mentioned, an fractional part thereof, one cent.

page 145, line one hundred and fourteen, if it additional two cents.

Mr. SCHENCK. I move to insert after

is improper to be inserted here. Mr. SCHENCK. I move to amend by strikthe word “thereof” the words an addition

Mr. SCHENCK. When the gentleman asked ing out in the paragraph just read the following: of."

me to make an amendment in schedule C, I The sum of twenty-five cents, one cent. Where The amendment was agreed to.

said, “Certainly.” It did not occar to me, such packet, box, bottle, pot, vial, or other inclo

however, that he was going to make it to a sure, with its contents, shall exceed the retail price Mr. GARFIELD. I ask the gentleman

I ask the gentleman different part of the bill. or value of twenty-five cents, and shall not exceed

whether he has made provision against a fraud the retail price or yalue of fifty cents, two cents.

Mr. ROBINSON. I think it makes not Where such packet, box, bottle, pot, phial, or other which two years ago was largely practiced much difference where it goes in. inclosure, with its contents, shall exceed the retail against the Government in reference to these Mr. SCHENCK. I hope it will not go in price or value of fifty cents, and shall not exceed the retail price or value of seventy-five cents, three cents.

stamps on matches? Manufacturers of matches anywhere. Where such packet, box, bottle, pot, vial, or other

made them of double length, and dipped both Mr. ROBINSON. I ask that it go in here. inclosure, with its contents, shall exceed the retail ends, thus getting two matches instead of one, The CHAIRMAN. The Chair rules it out price or value of seventy-five cents, and shall not

which was a source of complaint, and the Comexceed the retail price or value of one dollar, four

of order. The gentleman can introduce it as cents. Wbere such packet, box, bottle, pot, vial,

missioner of Internal Revenue recommended an independent paragraph. It properly belongs or other inclosure, with its contents, shall exceed that it should be provided against.

on page 145.

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Mr. ROBINSON. I move it as an independ- Mr. SCHENCK. I am instructed by the
ent paragraph.

Committee of Ways and Means to offer the
Mr. ALLISON. It seems to me we should following amendment :
have no special legislation for these pawn- Page 166, line one hundred and twenty-three, before

bet the word "cities" insert the word "State;" so that Mea brokers.

it will read: Mr. ROBINSON. It is not for pawnbrokers.

first And a true and accurate return of the amount of Mr. ALLISON. We have stricken out the circulation, of deposit, and of capital, as aforesaid,

M and of the amount of no of persons, State banks provision in relation to stamps on receipts, and

gent and State banking associations, and of State, cities, it will be the easiest thing in the world for pawn

scrit towns, or other municipal corporations, paid out by brokers instead of giving a certificate for a razor them for the previous month, shall be made and ren

the c that has been pledged simply to give a receipt dered monthly, &c.

does for the razor and so avoid the tax entirely. I The amendment was agreed to.

M think there will be no difficulty about it.

Mr. SCHENCK. I am also instructed by amo Mr. ROBINSON. It is not the pawnbroker the Committee of Ways and Means to offer the

M I am trying to protect, but the poor people, to following amendment:

abou whom this is charged. The internal revenue

Page 167, line forty-two, strike out the words "the circu department will still insist, no doubt, in doing | deposits, circulation, and capital of;" 80 that the BE as they have done. I move the amendment as clause will read:

matt And in the case of banks with branches each branch a separate paragraph, and I will fill the blank

unde shall make a separate return, and the tax shall be with the words "one dollar;" so that it will assessed on each severally. The amendment was agreed to.

the No stamp duty shall be required on any certificate Mr. SCHENCK. I offer the following amend

$50, or receipt for goods received by any pawnbroker

them when the money advanced on said goods does not ment from the Committee of Ways and Means:

MI exceed one dollar.

Page 167, at the end of line forty-seven insert the
Anything to save these poor people.
words "and requires returns to be made to the Treas-

think The question being taken on the amendment, urer of the United States;" so that the clause will Hest

read: there were-ayes 33, noes 25.

And so much of the forty-first section of the act The amendment was, by unanimous consent, to provide a national currency secured by a pledge posit considered as agreed to.

of United States bonds, and to provide for the circula- Mr Mr. MAYNARD. I hope that, by general

tion and redemption thereof, approved June 3, 1864,
as imposes a tax on the banks organized under that

pose consent, the amendment of the gentleman from act, and requires returns to be made to the Treasurer

Mr New York, which has just been adopted, will

of the United States, be, and is hereby repealed. setts be inserted on page 145, where it appropriately The amendment was agreed to.

their belongs.

Mr. PRICE. On page 166, line fourteen, I || tal, h Mr. ROBINSON. Oh, we can easily fix

one sixth'' and insert" move to strike out

Mr.

one
that when we get into the House.
twenty-fourth”, in lieu thereof; so that the

my gu Mr. ALLISON. I object to going back. clause will read :

Mr.

to me The next section was read, as follows:

And a'tax of one twenty-fourth of one per cent.
Banks and Bankers.
each month upon the average amount of circulation

capita Sec. 113. And be it further enacted, That there shall

issued by any bank, association, corporation, com- they a be levicd, collected, and paid a tax of one twentypany, or person,

forma fourth of one per cent. each month upon the average I make the motion for the reasons which I Mr. amount of the deposits of money, subjeci to payment by check or draft, or represented by certificates of will state briefly, and I would like to have the

my 9 deposit or otherwise, whether payable on demand or attention of the committee for a very short gentle at some future day, with any person, bank, associa- time. Take a bank of $200,000 capital. This Mr. 1:08, company. or corporation engaged in the business of banking; and a tax of one twenty-fourth of bill proposes to tax them half of one per cent. sachus une per cent. each month, as aforesaid, upon the on their capital; that is $1,000. Then half capital of any bank, association, company, or corporation, and on the capital employed by any person

of one per cent on their deposits. I suppose throug In the business of banking, beyond the average

the bank will have $500,000 deposits. "I am and I amount invested in United States bonds; and a tax not supposing a case; I have such a bank right pleasu of one sixth of one per cent, each month upon the average amount of circulation issued by any bank,

in my eye. That makes a tax of $2,500 on that b association,corporation, company. or person, includ" || deposits.

Then there is a $400 tax imposed culatic ing as circulation all certified checks and all notes before they can commence business. Put that deposi and other obligations calculated or intended to circulate or to be used as money, but not including that

down. The first thing a bank has to do is to That is in the vault of the bank, or redeemed and on deposit pay into the Treasury of the United States

Mr. for said bank. And a true and accurate return of $400. And then this bill proposes to tax them cent, i the amount of circulation, of deposits and of capital, as aforesaid, and of the amount of potes of persons,

two per cent. on their circulation. If the bank Mr. State banks and State banking associations, and of

has a capital of $200,000, it will have a circu- not ler cities, towns, or other municipal corporations, paid lation of $180,000. Two per cent. on $180,000

interes out by them for the previous month, shall be mado and rendered monthly by each of them to the assessor

is $3,600. Now, if gentlemen have put the of the district in which such bank, association, cor

figures down, they will find that I have got three poration, or company may be located, or in which and three quarters per cent. on the capital. law is such person has his place of business, with a declaration annexed thereto, verificd by the oath or affirm

Now, in the next place, I assume—at least said, s ation of such person, or of the president or cashier

I do not assume it, for I have the papers to money of such bank, association, corporation, or com papy, prove it that it will cost for the expenses of of the in such form and manner as may be prescribed by the Commissioner of Internal Revenue. And for any

running the bank a little over two per cent. busines
refusal or neglect to make or to render such return on the capital. Put it down at two per cent. figures
and pay the tax, any such bank, association, corpora- in round nuinbers. Gentlemen ask me if that sachuse
tion, company, or person so in default shall be
subject to and pay a penalty of $200, besides the ad-

is a national tax. I tell them no; it is for
ditional penalty
and forfeitures in other cases pro-

rent of the bank building, pay of the cashier, || if he ca
vided by law; and in default of such return the teller, book-keeper, and discount clerk I do ties.
several amounts subject to tax shall be estimated by
the assessor or assistant assessor on the best

informa

not include pay of the president and direct- [Her tion he can obtain. And in the case of banks with ors-and fuel, light, and stationery, without

Mr. branches each branch shall make a separate return, which a bank cannot run. Now, if gentlemen || formalland the tax shall be assessed on the deposits, circulation, and capital of each severally. And so much

will put the figures together, they will discover | tleman of the forty-first section of the "Act to provide a that they have got between eight and ten per

of givio national currency secured by a pledgo of United cent. on the capital of that bank. I know, sir, answer Slates bonds, and to provide for the circulation and redemption thereof." approved June 3, 1861, as im

that a man who stands up here to advocate the poses a tax on the banks organized under that act,

cause of banks or railroads is in a losing busi- Mr. E be, and is hereby, repealed : Providel, That the de- ness, and I do not expect that this will amount Mr. H. osits in associations or companies known as provident institutions, savings banks, savings funds, or

to anything. But I advertise gentlemen that | bank w wavings institutions, having no capital stock and

no bank, unless it be in some Atlantic city, or
doing no other business than receiving deposits to at some central point of commercial opera-
be loaned or invested for the sole benefit of the
parties taking such deposits, without profit or com-

tions, can do business under this tax. It inust a capital pensation to the association or company, shall be be very plain to any gentleman that if he has | and der ex«mpt from tax on so much of their

deposits as they $100,000 to invest he had better loan it out at ing $880 have invested in securities of the United States, and on all deposits less than $500 made in the name of any

current rates of interest at six, eight, or ten Mr. F one person; and the returns required to be made by per cent., and have no expense for Govern

à reserv ruch provident institutions and savings banks shall ment or State tax, than to bank with it ander

Mr. H. be made on the first Monday of January and July of each year, in such form and manner as may be pre

the national banking law, with that law as it Seribed by the Commissioner of Internal Revenue.

now stands. Aud, by the way, let me here II think th

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under all circumstances, will find a reserve of furnished by the Government. circulated upon

I think that much depends upon the $280,000 sufficient, thus leaving, aside from its the faith and credit of the Government, the management of the banks. I know of a bank capital, $400,000 which it can loan. At six Government being responsible for it, it seemed in Chicago that pays. a semi-annual dividend per cent., that will be $24,000 which it receives to the committee perfectly just that the Gov. of twenty per cent. That is a good bank. It for interest on its loans. Then, on the bonds ernment should receive as tax one third of the is well managed. I know some country banks it has deposited in the Treasury for its circula- | interest which the bank earns upon it at the that pay semi-annual dividends of fifteen per tion, it receives interest at the rate of six per lowest rates at which banks are in the habit of cent. These are well managed banks. Now, cent. in gold, which will be equal to at least eight | loaning money. Another consideration was what we propose is an additional tax on these per cent, in curreney.

that there had been a great deal of discussion national banks of $3,000,000. Mr. MULLINS. It is equal to $8 40 in in regard to the injustice of permitting the Mr. PRICE. Are there not banks wbich currency. banks to have any circulation at all.

have been compelled to wind up, and which Mr. HOOPER, of Massachusetts. That will In reply to the other branch of my colleague's do no business? then be equal to $16,800 in currency, which the question, I will say that this proposed increase dir. ALLISON. Of course. There was one bank receives as interest on its bonds; which, ll of taxation on circulation will, I think, operate in the oil region of Pennsylvania. It will not added to the $24,000 it receives as interest on in the same way upon the country and the city pay to do business if they are not well man. its loans, will make $40,800. Now, I think banks in proportion to the amount of their aged. These national banks have special priv. when the gentleinan comes to deduct his ex- respective circulation. It appears to me that ileges thrown around them. Their charters are penses from that amount, he will find that there upon a city bank with $200,000 circulation valuable whether in city or country. They mo. is a pretty good margin left as profits.

the effect would be precisely the same as upon | nopolize because of their charters all the busiMr. PRICE. With a little experience in a country bank with $200,000 cireulation. dess in the cities and drive out private bankers. banking, I confess it never occurred to me that Mr. D AWES. How are the comparative

Mr. BEYTON. I ask if this tax on circu. it was quite so profitable a business as my friend || deposits of the city and the country banks? lation is not calculated to prevent circulation from Massachusetts [Jir. HOOPER) makes it Mr. HOOPER, of Massachusetts. I pre- and to restrict it? out to be. The banker takes $200,000 to start sume the deposits are heavier in the cities. Mr. ALLISON. That is an answer to my with; that is all there is in tbe concern, and Mr. BLAINE. Take, for instance, the Mer- friend over the way. If these national banks buys bonds with every dollar of it, and those chant's Bank of Boston, the largest bank in are not satisfied with their circulation, let them bonds are deposited in the Treasury of the Boston.

return it, and we will find others that will take United States. For that $200,000 in bonds Mr. HOOPER, of Massachusetts. I do not it. I know several towns in my State without draws back $180,000 in currency. He receives refer to individual cases.

national banks, and they cannot get this circu. his current deposits in the bank $500,000. He [Here the hammer fell.]

lation because it is monopolized by New York has now $680,000. He proposes out of that Mr. ALLISON. I desire to oppose the and New England. We propose a tax of $680,000 to loan $600,000.

amendment proposed by my friend from Mas- | $3,000,000 on the circulation of the national Mr. HOOPER, of Massachusetts. My state- sachusetts, Mr. DAWES;] and I judge from banks, and having this monopoly they can well ment was that the bank has altogether the question be asked his colleague that he bim- afford it. $880,000, of which it loans $400.000, making, self lives in the region of country banks. Now, [Here the hammer fell.] with the $200,000 in bonds, $600,000 upon sir, I do not desire this controversy between

lir. DAWES. I withdraw the amendment. which the bank receives interest, leaving $280,- ) the city and country banks shall result in re- Mr. SCHENCK. I move to strike out one 000 for reserve.

ducing this tax upon circulation. I fiud from twenty-fourth and make it one twenty-fifth, Mr. PRICE. I beg the gentleman's pardon an examination of the report of the Comptrol. merely for the purpose of making a remark in if I do not state his position correctly. This ler of the Currency that the taxes paid by ihese | reply to the gentleman from lowa, (Mr. Price] banker bas on hand altogether $680,000, banks average two and a quarter per cent. to

I will leave without comment the answer made $500,000 of which is current deposits; and he the United States, and a like sum to the several hy my colleague on the committee, showing loans $600,000, leaving $80,000 with which to States. ibat is the existing tax on the circu- that upon his own statement the bank that he meet that indebtedness of $500,000 due the lation of the national banks. I do not know had in his mind ought to make sixteen per depositors. Would $80,000 be considered by whether he is seriously in favor of the reduc- cent. net. But there is another funny fallacy, sound bankers a sufficient margin ?

tion of that or not. The effect of this bill is l if I may be allowed to make the alliteration, Mr. HOOPER, of Massachusetts. Two hun. to increase the tax on the circulation of national which he has been treating us to. What have dred and eighty thousand dollars.

banks one per cent. They are now taxed one per we done? We have left the tax on deposits as Mr. PRICE. No; the gentleman is mistaken. cent. perannum on the circulation, and we pro- it was, we have taxed the capital the same, There are $680,000 to start with, $500,000 of pose a tax of two per cent. I think the answer one twenty-fourth of one per cent., and we deposits and $180,000 of circulation,

of my colleagile on the committee a good one. have increased by this bill the tax on circulaMr. HOOPER, of Massachusetts. And Mr. BLAINE. Does the gentleman argue, tion from one twelfth of one per cent. to one $200,000 capital.

as the taxes now stand, that it is fairer to put sixth. Now, what is the gentleman's calculaMr. PRICE. But the capital is in bonds. double tax upon the circulation than upon the tion? He says we have charged one twenty. My friend counts that $200,000 twice. deposits?

fourth on deposits, which is one half Mr. PIKE. I would like to ask the gentle- Mr. ALLISON. If he is anxious to put a a year; one twenty-fourth on capital, which is man whether such a bank as that pays. tax upon deposits--

another half per cent. a year, and we have [Here the hammer fell.]

Mr. BLAINE. My question is whether if you charged one sixth on circulation, which is Mr. DAVES. I move pro forma to amend are going to raise so much tax out of the national two per cent. a year; thus making, says he, the amendment by striking out" one twenty- bank system which is the fairest way to get it. three per cent. on the property of the banker. fourth,” and inserting one twelfth." I make Mr. ALLISON. That is a pertinent ques Now, suppose I had a pig, a horse, and a cow, this motion merely for the purpose of inquiring tion. One way is to tax the circulation of and í paid twenty-five cents on the pig, one of my colleague, [Mr. Hooper, of Massachu. national banks.

dollar on the horse, and seventy-five cents on setts,] who seems to have charge of this part Mr. BLAINE. They are already taxed one the cow. Adding them all together the gentle. of the bill, first, what reason has governed the per cent. upon circulation.

man would say that I paid two dollars all Committee of Ways and Means in proposing Mr. ALLISON. I understand that, and I round, on the pig, the horse, and the cow. to double the tax upon circulation without | have so stated that the circulation of the That would be precisely his argument. We increasing the tax upon deposits; and sec- national banks is taxed one per cent. This charge so much on deposits, so much on capiondly, what will be the effect of this change circulation is an absolute gratuity to these tal, and so much on circulation --- separate upon the country banks as compared with the banks. These banks in the cities as well as in things. The gentleman adds them all together city banks? 1 yield my colleague the remainder the country issue every dollar of circulation and makes three per cent. a year, and he says of iny time that he may answer these questions. that they are authorized to issue, and they | that we are charging three per cent, on all the

Mr. HOOPER, of Massachusetts. I will say send these notes out into circulation from property in the banks. It is precisely the case frankly, in reply to the question of my col. Maine to the Gulf of Mexico. They do not of the pig, horse, and cow. Although the tax league, that our reason for proposing to increase redeem them, and if they did it would be in is paid on each separate thing, he takes the the tax upon circulation was that this circula- | greenbacks, which, practically, is no redemp. aggregate and makes out his case. tion is furnished by the United States; the tion. My idea is that these national banks I am merely giving this as a specimen of credit of this circulation is the credit of the can maintain this tax so long as we do not the gentleman's logic. Now, what we propose Government, the Government being responsi- resume specie payment. I am sorry that my | is, as we tax the privilege of supplying the ble for it; and we thought it not unfair, under colleague [Mr. Price] did not answer what country with money upon that franchise by the circumstances, that the Government should the bank he cited received annually in the which the banks furnish the circulation, we receive one third of the lowest rate of interest shape of dividends. I do not know of any thought we might well afford, now that we which a bank gets by loaning that circulation. national bank that has not divided semi-an- extend this franchise to the national banks-If my colleague will look at the returns made nually a respectable dividend. If he will turn which are in fact all that are really worth consid: by the Comptroller of the Currency, he will find to the report of the Comptroller of the Cur- ering, because the State banks have been driven that, with every national bank, the whole rency he will find that each one of them has pretty much out of existence to add another amount of its circulation (I say the whole, a respectable surplus.

one twelfth, and thus make it one sixth of one because it is so nearly that) is constantly out, Mr. DAWES. "How do the dividends of the

per cent. per annum instead of one-twelfth as constantly drawing interest for the bank. No city banks compare with those of the country before. bank gets less than six per cent. on the amount | banks?

Mr. BLAINE. I desire to say, with all due it has in circulation; and as this circulation is Mr. ALLISON. I will answer the gentle. Il respect for the Committee of Ways and Meabs,

per cent. ment.

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that if they had attempted to make a most Mr. PIKE. I renew it. I wish to suggest
injurious discrimination against the country a solution of this difficulty to the committee.
banks they could not have better contrived to Some of these gentlemen seem to represent
do it than they have done in this bill. I am city banks and others represent country banks.
not here to oppose an increased tax or circu- For my part I do not represent banks at all.
lation, nor to oppose any tax on national banks Mr. BLAINE. I do not either.
which they can stand. But I do maintain that Mr. PIKE. I was going to suggest that we
of all the banks in the land that are able to adopt the views of the country banks in rela-
stand a heavy tax the class which can stand tion to the city banks, and tax the city banks
it the best are the large State banks which have as much as the country banks think they ought
an enormous line of deposits. And if you to be taxed, and then tax the country banks
will put one half per cent. per annum upon what the city banks think they ought to
their deposits, unless I am entirely mistaken be taxed. In that way we shall get a fair
in my statistics--and I take them now from taxation all round. These gentleinen who are
memory-you will get as much as one per cent. stockholders in these various institutions kuow,
will give on circulation. I think the average at any rate, and are entirely willing to confess,
is about five hundred and forty million dollars; what their neighbors earn, and by the dupli.
it may be six hundred million dollars. Now cate confession, one confessing to the other's
then, put one half per cent. on that amount, earnings I was not going to say their sins,
and it gives you $3,000,000. Now, in regard but their earnings-we get the earniugs of both
to the country banks, the case cited as an illus- classes, and in that way get at a fair and proper
tration by my friend from Iowa (Mr. PRICE] basis for taxation. Now, sir, this whole system
is no fair sample. A bank with $200,000 cap- is a monopoly. Here are three hundred mil-
ital that has $500,000 deposits is a very rare lion dollars or more in the banking business.
thing. There are three banks in my little town. I represent a population that does not share in
There is not one of them that begins to have this monopoly. We have been endeavoring,
a deposit equal to its capital. The entire capi- from time to time, to get some share in this
tal of the three banks is only $450,000, and banking business, bat up to this time we have
there was never more than $250,000 of deposits been entirely unable to do so except in one or
at any one time.

two small instances. Now, then, let the city Mr. PRICE. I know a bank on the sun- banks be taxed and the country banks taxed, down side of the Mississippi with $100,000 and then if these gentlemen will but give up capital that has over half a million of deposits. || the business and give the rest of us a chance

Mr. BLAINE. Very well; that is in the to get in it will give my constituents an oppor.
West. The bank in Chicago that my friend lunity. For one I am desirous of placing such
alluded to which divided twenty per cent. is a tax upon this peculiar business which is thus F
also in the West. But I know of no such bank | monopolized as shall reduce it to such a fair
in New England, unless it be in Boston. If business as compared with the other business th
there is any class of capital in this country that of the moneyed capital of this country as shall is
can stand an additional tax it is the large banks not make gentlemen so eager to monopolize
that have these enormous deposits, and while the whole of it. Deposits are of course a very
I am not arguing and do not intend to argue large source of income to city banks. Let the
against putting an additional tax on circula- tax on those be increased to one per cent. th
tion, I protest against allowing these enorinous Circulation is a large profit to the country
deposits to go untaxed. There is no class of banks particularly. Let the tax on that be
property under the sun that can stand taxation | increased. The imperial power is given them bi
so well as they can.

of furnishing the money of the country, and gi Mr. ALLISON. Does my friend know why it is the creative power of money that we should tic there are large deposits in these banks?

Then the taxes should be so as to reduce Mr. BLAINE. Because the people put | the earnings of the banks until they reach a bu their money in them. (Laughter.]

point where they will be willing to share the do Mr. ALLISON. Well, that is a very good monopoly with others.

th Mr. HUBBARD, of West Virginia. I rise Mr. BLAINE. Why is it, then?

to oppose the amendment, and I would suggest Mr. ALLISON. It is because they are as a compromise that the tax on deposits bein- Ir allowed to receive interest on deposits.

creased from one twenty-fourth to one twelfth of I Mr. BLAINE. So much the more reason one per cent. per month, and the tax circula- thi why they should pay a tax.

tion be reduced from one sixth to one twelfth of Mr. ALLISON. Your country banks, in- one per cent. per month. That would make stead of loaning their money to their neighbors the tax one per cent. per annum on deposits,

upfor business purposes, send it to the business and one per cent per annum on the circulation. tho centers and speculate in stocks.

Mr. ALLISON. Would not the gentleman of Mr. BLAINE. And you propose to make increase the tax on the capital from oue twenty- inc it easier for them to do that by not taxing the fourth of one per cent. per month to one dir deposits.

twelfth of one per cent., and thus make it Mr. ALLISON. Why does not the gentle equal all round, one per cent. per annum? the man propose to increase the tax on deposits Mr. HUBBARD, of West Virginia. I'will in instead of fighting the tax on circulation ? come to that in a moment. My proposition in

Mr. BLANE. I make the proposition to would make the tax upon the deposits and of put one per cent. on the city banks, and it upon the circulation one per cent. per annum, the ought to have been done long ago.. You will The bill as it now stands also has a clause

wh find that the city banks are making ten times imposing a tax upon the capital. But what is of as much on their deposits as they make on their that tax, and upon what amount of capital?

put capital, and they make it out of their deposit- As this is in my line of business I ask gentle. ors, and that large sum ought not to be allowed men to pay a little attention to what I say in the

regard to it. The provision of the bill is as lati Mr. SCHENCK. Well, offer your amend follows:

inft And a tax of one twenty-fourth of one per cent. Mr. BLAINE. It is not in order now. You

each month, as aforesaid, upon the capital of any Strike at the country banks and affect

them inju- bank,

association, company, or corporation, and on the capital employed by any person in the business

wil
nously, and allow the city banks, which are of banking, beyond the average amount invested in
much more able to bear taxation, to go scot

United States bonds.
freeofadditional burdens. Thatismy complaint Now, the capital of most all these banks is
against the Committeeof Ways and Means. all invested in United States bonds, so that

stai
Mr. SPALDING. What are the regular under this provision there would be no tax at bei
dividends of your banks?
all paid upon the capital. Therefore, this tax

pos Mr.BLAINE. I never knew them over ten of one half per cent. per anuum is no charge per cent.

against the banks, under this bill as it now but [Here the bammer fell.]

stands, except upon that portion of the capital fro Mr. SCHENCK, I withdraw the amend- not invested in United States bonds, which in

the ment to the amendment. most cases amounts to nothing at all.

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BLAINE] that the increase of our taxation upon consent all further debate on this section will a great many instances there is no sub. Treasthese banks ought to be mainly upon their be terminated.

ury and no place to keep the money in but deposits. These deposits are not only loaned Mr. HOLMAN. I object.

the banks, out, but are invested in various profitable ways; Mr. SCHENCK. I move that the com- Mr. LOGAN. They can express it to the and they can readily bear a heavy taxation for mittee rise for the purpose of closing debate. Government sub-Treasury very easily. the support of the Government. I would not Mr. BLAINE. You cannot do that. There Mr. PRICE. Not every day. take away from these banks their circulation, is no quorum.

Mr. LOGAN. The express runs every day, a measure which has been advocated by some; Mr. SCHENCK. Then I hope gentlemen and there are sub-Treasuries all over the counbut I would adopt such policy as to compel will soon run out.

try where money can be deposited. them to perform their legitimate function and Mr. LYNCH. I rise to make a suggestion

Mr. PRICE. Oh, no. accommodate the people. Now they do not to the gentleman from West Virginia, and that Mr. LOGAN. There is a sub-Treasury in do that. There are many of our banks, both is this: the particular case which has been New York and in every large city. in the cities and in the country, whose officers, brought before the House by the gentleman Mr. FARNSWORTH. I would ask the genwhen a loan is applied for, ask the applicant, from Iowa [Mr. Price of a bank which has tleman from Iowa [Mr. PRICE] whether the "How much can you pay? What per cent. $180,000 circulation and $500,000 deposits will deputy collectors in the different districts can you give ?” They do not govern their not be much relieved by double taxation. deposit in the banks every night? operations by the law which in ordinary busi- Mr. MILLER. I withdraw my amendment. Mr. PRICE. I am happy to tell my friend ness regulates the transactions of men in regard Mr. LOGAN. I merely desire to suggest an that they do, so far as my knowledge is conto the use of their money, but they take all amendment for the consideration of the com- cerned. they can get ; and I say, let the Government | mittee. It is this: I propose after the word Mr. LOGAN. If you have no bank what compel them to pay their full share of the “money'' to insert "except on desposits of becomes of the money the collector has ? taxes.

the Government, and on deposits of the Gov. Mr. FARNSWORTH. They must have to [Here the hammer fell.]

ernment there shall be a tax of four per cent." travel a long distance, Mr. PIKE. I withdraw iny amendment to The CHAIRMAN, That is not in order now. Mr. O'NEILL. I rise to oppose the amendthe amendment.

Mr. LOGAN. On the deposits of individ. ment of the gentleman from Mlinois, (Mr. Mr. HUBBARD, of West Virginia. I will uals, I do not know how it is in the East and LOGAN.] I understand it is impossible in many modify my amendment so as to strike out New York, but in the West a great portion of instances for the Government to have its money "twenty-fourth,'' and insert “ twelfth ;” mak the banks pay an interest of six per cent.; but deposited in Government depositories; that is, ing the rate of taxation on deposits one twelfth on the Government deposits there is no interest in the sub-Treasury. Now, I presume, as a of one per cent.

paid whatever. At different times the Gov. matter of course, the deposits must be made Mr. PRICE. I modify my amendment so ernment has had millions of dollars on deposit somewhere for the convenience of the Govern. as to insert “ one twelfth." This will make for months from which it derived no interest

Let me illustrate it. In the State of the rate of taxation the same that it is at present. | whatever, while the banks derived from six to Pennsylvania there is a vast amount of money Mr. MILLER. I move to amend the amend- nine per cent.

collected by local taxation.

The money 18 ment by striking out “one twelfth," and in- Mr. LYNCH. Does not the Government deposited in the State bauks all over the Comserting one fifteenth.” I rise, Mr. Chair- have for every dollar of deposit in the banks monwealth, evidently to the convenience of the man, to say a word in regard to a question ample security, while the individual depositors State. which seems to excite interest on all sides of have no security ?

Mr. LOGAN. Let me ask the gentleman a the House. Some gentlemen think that these Mr. LOGAN. Well, sir, I would like the question. This Congress has passed a law banks are merely of advantage to the stock gentleman to explain to me what amount the requiring deposits to be made in the Governholders and to no one else. These gentlemen | Government derives, so far as it is concerned, ment depositories or the sub-Treasury where are mistaken. I do not know about city banks, from the securities. They do not pay the Gov. the collection was made within five miles of but I do know about the country banks, and I ernment one cent interest. There is a bank- the sub-Treasury,

is such a deposit in viola: know that they are not only of advantage to ing institution in this city that has had as high tion of law? the stockholders, but of advantage to the as $6,000,000 on deposit at a time, and it [Here the hammer fell.] people generally. If this tax is increased, as never paid one cent to the Government on that Mr. TROWBRIDGE. I move that the comit is proposed here, it will tax the country banks deposit.

mittee do now rise. ont of existence.

Mr. LYNCH. The point I wished to make The motion was agreed to-ayes 35, noes 34. Gentlemen say if they are taxed out of was the difference between the deposits of in- So the committee rose; and the Speaker hav: existence they will take the circulation. If dividuals who have no security whatever, who ing resumed the chair, Mr. Pomeroy reported they are taxed out of existence it would not be take their own risk, and the deposits of the that the Committee of the Whole on the state long before we should hear of broken banks in Government, which are entirely secure; more of the Union had had under consideration the the country. In the country the banks make so than if made in the sub-Treasury.

state of the Union generally, and particularly money out of the circulation. I know, so far as Mr. LOGAN. That only adds to what I

the special order, being the bill (H. R. No. the banks in my country are concerned, they said of the necessity of taxing the individual

1060) to reduce into one act and to amend the make little money out of deposits. They depend who makes deposits and receives his six or

laws relating to internal taxes, and had come upon what money they make on circulation. In four per cent. as the case may be.

to no resolution thereon.. the cities it is far different. The deposits there Mr. LYNCH. And takes his risk. are large and they make a great deal of money Mr. LOGAN. Takes his risk.

CLOSE OF DEBATE. on the deposits. But it is not so in the country. A MEMBER Where do they pay six per

Mr. SCHENCK. I move that when the The proposition here is not only to tax the cent.?

House next resolves itself into Committee of deposits, but to put a double tax upon the circu- Mr. LOGAN. They do it in my part of the the Whole on the state of the Union on the lation. What will be the result? The result country to my certain knowledge. But the special order all debate on the pending secwill be in many sections of the country that Governmert, in depositing, gets collateral; tion shall close in three minutes. the banks will have to wind up. If they can- but on that collateral the Government pays Mr. HOLMAN. I hope the gentleman will not make some money they will not run the six per cent. in gold. It does that for the contine his motion to the pending amendment. risk.

advantage of having its money deposited in a This is a very important section. Mr. STEWART. What amendment does bank out of which many a banker derives six Mr. SCHENCK. No, sir, on the section; the gentleman from Pennsylvania propose ? per cent. interest beside the interest on the but I will say in ten minutes instead of three

Mr. MILLER. I move to strike out one collateral. Now, sir, I purpose, in order to minutes. Closing debate will not cut off amendtwelfth and insert one fifteenth.

make this fair, that upon the Government deMr. Chairman, I am in favor of the amend- posits in the banks they shall be required to pay

Mr. HOLMAN.

I move to amend the ment of the gentleman from Iowa. As I was

four per cent. Then as regards individual motion so as to limit debate only on the pendsaying, so far as the banks in the country are deposits the House may determine the percent- ing amendment. concerned, this tax bill will be onerous. They age as it sees fit. I do nor propose to change The SPEAKER. That amendment is not cannot stand this tax. Gentlemen say let them that part of the bill. This is all I desire to in order. The rule gives authority to close go. They want to monopolize the banking say, I shall ask a vote at the proper time. debate on sections and on amendments pend. business in the cities, but country people must Mr. O'NEILL. I desire to ask a question ing thereto, and the motion of the gentleman be accommodated as well as those of the cities. of the gentleman. Does not the Government from Ohio' [Mr. SCHENCK] being the larger Gentlemen must recollect that there are great | receive some benefit from the convenience or motion, must be voted down before the vote losses in the banking business. Not only the advantage of having deposited its money in can be taken on the motion of the gentleman drawers but the indorsers of notes fail, and the banks of the country?

from Indiana. large amounts of money are lost in that way. Mr. LOGAN. None on God's earth. It Mr. ROBINSON. I rise to a question of And as the banking system is not established only gives these men a chance to turn the money order. Was it not the understanding when the circulation is limited. When we had the land make a fortune out of it without giving the House took a recess this afternoou that State banks, before they were legislated out the Government a particle of benefit.

no business was to be transacted to night of existence, we could increase our circulation Mr. PRICE. That happens to be a mistake. except in Committee of the Whole on the state and the country people become accommodated.

Mr. LOGAN. Well, now, let us see.

of the Union ? It is not so now.

Mr. PRICE. All over the country there are The SPEAKER. It was not; on the con[Here the hammer fell.]

collection districts. The collectors must neces- trary the Chair stated that such an underMr. SCHENCK. I hope by unanimous | sarily deposit their money somewhere, and in

standing would require unanimous consent.

ments.

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