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isters plenipotentiary, ministers resident, commis- on the subject is of a public character, and it is Mr. SUMNER called for the yeas
sioners, chargés d'affaires, and secretaries of lega-
tion, appointed to the countries hereinafter named

not derogatory to any gentleman to communi- and they were ordered. in schedule A, shall be entitled to compensation for cate it to the public. Mr. Harvey disclaims Mr. SHERMAN. Since the yeas and nays their services, respectively, at the rates per annum all desire for an increase of salary.

are to be called I feel bound to state, very hereinafter specified; that is to say, embassadors and en voys extraordinary and ministers plenipotentiary,

In this country we do not stand much upon || briefly, the position I occupy in regard to this the full amounts specified therefor in said schedule the different grades or positions which diplo- matter. I am perfectly willing, in order to A; ministers resident and commissioners, seventy: matic agents possess; they are altogether arti- meet the argument of my colleague and of the five per cent.; chargés d'affaires, fifty per cent., and

ficial; I think as little of them, perhaps, as anysecretaries of legation, fifteen per cent. of the said

Senator from Massachusetts, to give the rank amounts respectively.'

body else; but in Europe it is different; they provided for, but I do not wish to do it in such Now, the proposition which I have moved || judge of men's importance frequently accord- way that it will inevitably draw with it an proceeds, in harmony with this, simply to de- ing to their name or grade or standing. Long increase of pay. The objection to the amend. clare that where the President shall undertake custom there has made distinctions between ment proposed by the Senator from Massachuto appoint an envoy extraordinary or minister | the various grades of these officers. In the setts is this: the law now confers upon an plenipotentiary to any court where we are now public law, the different order and dignity of envoy extraordinary the salary of $10,000 a represented by a minister resident there shall the various grades of diplomatic agents is per- year; it is so fixed by law, and at the next sesbe only the salary of a minister resident. Pro- | fectly well understood and always has been. sion we shall undoubtedly have an application ceeding with the theory of this act and a cer- If a nation sees it to be represented there by from every person appointed under this protain theory of the Constitution, the President a minister of an inferior grade, it labors under viso for the legal salary, and we cannot refuse has the power already to appoint to all these an apparent disadvantage; he is not consid- to grant it to him. The legal salary affixed to courts an envoy extraordinary and minister ered by his associates as being on an equal this title of envoy extraordinary and minister plenipotentiary if in his discretion he shall see footing with those of them that are of the first || plenipotentiary is by the law, first, $17,500 to fit, but there is no salary appropriated by law. rank. A minister of the first rank may, for a certain class named, then to another class Ifthe amendment now offered should be adopted | instance, go into the presence of the emperor, $12,000, and to another class $10,000, and it would be in his discretion, at any of the courts or king, or highest officer of the State and com- this compensation being fixed by law the perwhere he shall see lit, to change our represent- municate with him directly, where, by the eti- sons appointed under this proviso will unative from a minister resident to an envoy ex. quette of the nation, a minister of an inferior | doubtedly apply for the salary. I have subtraordinary, but without any increase of sal- || grade would not be permitted to do so, but mitted to the Senator from Massachusetts an ary; and the simple question remains whether would have to communicate with some subor- additional section that will accomplish his it is not fit to give this discretion to the Presi- dinate officer.

object and the object of my colleague without dent. He is not called upon to exercise it. Now, when we are entitled to consider our- involving this danger, and if that amendment There are places where he may think it better selves among the first nations of the earth in is satisfactory to him—be now has it before to continue the minister resident.

point of population, of influence, of respecta | him-I am perfectly willing to vote for it. Mr. FESSENDEN. He can do it now. bility, and in every point of view, I think it is Mr. SUNNER. Very well. This would

Mr. SUMNER. But there is no salary; a modesty that works to our disadvantage for practically carry out the idea the committee the salary would not apply. The object of my us to refuse to send agents abroad with titles had. amendment is to supply the salary in such | which will

, in the estimation of those to whom Mr. SHERMAN. I ask that it be read, and That is all. I have heard it observed we send them, place us upon a position as high I do not think any one will object to that. that though the President may now, under the as other nations. I am informed that by this Mr. SUMNER. Let it be read. I do not Constitution, appoint to any place an envoy | course we detract from our influence abroad, think it quite so precise and pertinent to the extraordinary and minister plenipotentiary, he and I should expect that would be the case, case as the proposition of the committee. is, to a certain extent, restrained in the exer- because foreign nations are not aptyto rate a Mr. SHERMAN. It avoids the objection cise of that power by the want of an appropri- | people much higher than they see fit to rate which I have suggested. ation to support an envoy extraordinary and themselves. This amendment will cost us noth- The Secretary read the amendment suggested minister plenipotentiary at such a court. This ing. It is simply conferring a rank which is by Mr. Sherman, as follows: proposition meets that difficulty precisely. It considered important abroad, although it is not And be it further enacted. That the salary of envoy empowers him, if he sees fit at any court, to deemed important among us, because we do extraordinary and minister plenipotentiary to counraise the minister resident there to the rank not stand so much on this kind of etiquette as

tries not specially named in scbedule A, of the act

approved August 18, 1856, entitled "An act to reguof envoy extraordinary, to transfer the salary they do in Europe. As they do regard it of late the diplomatic and consular systems of the Uniwhich he now has as minister resident to the consequence, and as it is just as easy for us to ted States," and to be hereafter appointed, shall be other office. Legislation is required to enable give the highest title as the lowest, why should

$7,500. him to do that.

we not do it? It will give us an advantage Mr. SHERMAN. The language of the I come again, then, to the simple question of | abroad, and put us on a footing with other schedule already read by the Senator from expediency in the case. That is to be deter- countries represented by the highest grades of Massachusetts, is, that the salary of envoy exmined, I take it, by the testimony we receive diplomats. If we do not rate ourselves equal || traordinary and minister plenipotentiary to from Europe. I should certainly be disposed. || to them, we shall not be rated so by the cus- "Great Britain and France shall be each to respect very much the testimony of the gen- toms of those nations. That is all there is $17,500;' to “Russia, Spain, Austria, Prussia, tleman whom the Senator from Iowa quotes about it. I do not think it needs an elaborate || Brazil, Mexico, and China, each $12,000; all if it were given fairly on the facts. That is | argument. I think it is a very cheap way of other countries, each $10,000.” the reason why I said I should like to see his obtaining the influence we ought to have if we We have no envoy extraordinary to any other letter. I should respect it very much; but then send diplomatic agents abroad at all.

country than those named specifically. I am free to say that I speak on this matter Here let me say that if I could have my own Mr. FESSENDEN. Your amendment will somewhat from my own individual observa- way about it I never would have a resident reduce them to $7,500. tion for many years, almost for my whole life; minister abroad. I would abolish the whole Mr. SHERMAN. No, it only affects the and I have no hesitation in giving the opinion of them. I do not think they are of any kind third class and no other. It says “in counthat the diplomatic interests of our country in of importance to us. I do not think they do tries not specifically named in scbedule A" the Europe, at the courts where we are now repre- || any good in our relations with Europe. There | salary of a minister plenipotentiary shall be sented by ministers resident, would be pro- may be barbarous nations with which we have $7,500. moted by this change; and that was the opin- || communication where a resident minister all Mr. FESSENDEN. Now the salary of ion of the committee with which I have the the time may be of some service ; but with those not named is $10,000. By this you honor to be associated, after the most careful those nations of Europe with whom we are in reduce it to $7,500. consideration of it, not only this year, but constant communication, having treaties well Mr. SUMNER. There are none now apduring some years past.

understood with each other, there is no more pointed under the third clause. Mr. WADE. Perhaps I ought to say a word need for and no more importance to be at- Mr. SHERMAN. There are none under on this subject, as I first moved it in committee. tached to a resident minister than there is to the third clause of this schedule. There are I did so upon information which I had received have such agents sent by these States to each ministers plenipotentiary at $17,500, and some from some of our ministers abroad, gentlemen | other. Now, if a difficulty springs up between at $12,000, but none at $10,000. None have with whom I was formerly acquainted, who in this country and a European nation, we hardly been appointed under that third clause; so letters to me mentioned that they were labor- ever settle that controversy by means of our that the effect is to provide that the compening under this disadvantage-not a disadvan- minister there; we generally send a special | sation of an enroy extraordinary and minister tage to themselves, but, a disadvantage to the | agent to do that special business, and that is plenipotentiary and of a minister resident to country. I suppose the object of sending a the way we ought to do the whole of it and rid all the countries not specifically named in this minister abroad at all is that he may have a ourselves of the entire incumbrance of this schedule shall be $7,500. That gives them position which will enable him to exercise as whole matter. But if we will have ministers the incidental advantages of getting in to see much influence as the Government that sends || abroad, let us have them of the first class ; let the king a little sooner than otherwise. him can properly clothe him with.

us rate ourselves as we really are, on a stand- Mr. SUMNER. I am perfectly willing to Mr. FÈSSENDEN. I should like to know | ing and dignity with any nation of the earth, accept that substitute. the name of the Senator's correspondent. Let us do it unless we will abolish them, and The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator

Mr. WADE. The one to whom I refer par. if you will go that way with me I should like it from Massachusetts can withdraw his amendticularly is Mr. Harvey, representing this coun. much the best. That is all I have to say about ment by unanimous consent, the yeas and nays try at the court of Portugal. Perhaps i ought || it. It is a cheap way of rating ourselves as we having been ordered. not to state anything about this, but all he said ll ought to be rated and that to our advantage. Mr. GRIMES. I trust this amendment will not be adopted, because it will do away, I ap- Mr. GRIMES. That is not denying what I a higher position because, as it was said, Leoprehend, with the real spirit that instigated || stated.

pold was our great friend, although I believe the original proposition, which was to follow Mr. WADE. It is not denying it, but it is it turned out afterward that he was not, and up the lionor with the purse. Some of these | taking the sting out of it. If he was acting in that his influence had really been turned against gentlemen have peculiar claims upon this Gov. conformity to the wishes of his Government us, and because Belgium was such a very im. ernment for the consideration that it is pro- he was not in communication with traitors, | portant country, having about five millions of posed to besto upon them. The gentleman unless they were all traitors together, which people, although it is not so important in the from whom the Senator from Ohio [Mr. WADE] the gentleman will not pretend.

way of trade to us as the Netherlands, having received his letter on this subject, urging that Now, sir, what has the character of Mr.

no foreign possessions. That was for his benwe should pass a law to this effect, has a pecu- Harvey to do with the question that is before efit. He is the last man abroad that lowould liar claim upon the Government of the United us? This proposition does not apply to any | attempt to dignify or to please by raising his States.

minister in particular. Ifone half what the Sen- || rank, for reasons which I shall not give. I Mr. WADE. I did not say that he asked us ator has said is true, and if the authorities that would have said, until this morning, that I felt to pass any such law. I said that I understood govern Mr. Harvey do their duty, he will not differently toward Mr. Harvey, the minister to from him that he labored under this difficulty. be minister very long. If he uses his position | Portugal; but if the statement which I have

Mr. GRIMES. Yes, sir; that he labored to assail Congress and to put up the President | read is true, which professes to be extracts under this difficulty, and the natural inference of the United States, as many have done, to from a letter of his published in the New would be that he desired to have the dilliculty | drive Congress out, if the President ought not York Times, he has been guilty of a grave removed; and the Senator from Ohio, in his to be displaced, he will not leave this minister | indecorum; and instead of passing a bill by capacity as one of the members of the Com- one hour in his position after such advice, I which he could be by any possibility raised mittee on Foreign Relations, has proposed to know nothing about that. I am not the advo- in rank, he ought to be kicked out, because remove it by elevating him in rank. He is the cate of any man or any man's conduct here, it was an interference with what, being a forgentleman known to the country as the man and least of all do I wish to discuss a gentle- eign minister, it was improper for him to inwho telegraphed to Charleston, South Carolina, man's character here upon a question in which terfere with, if the letter was actually written, that Fort Sumter was about to be relieved, and it is not involved and having nothing to do and I suppose there is no doubt about it; and the result was that fire was immediately opened with it.

in the next place, it was a very unnecessarily by the rebels upon the vessel that went there to Sir, what is the question? It is no more nor impertinent letter with reference to some relieve the beleaguered men in that fortification. less than this: have we given our ministers | branches of the Government, he being a forMr. WADE. You are wrong. abroad that rank that enables them to be as

eign minister. Mr. GRIMES. No, sir, I am not wrong. Mr. useful to the country as they are capable of Mr. JOHNSON. What letter does the honJames L. Harvey was the man, and stands on being if we bestow it upon them? That is all orable member refer to? the record as the man—and I am prepared to there is of it. I do not wish to confer rank Mr. FESSENDEN. I refer to a ter which prove it—who telegraphed through to Charles- upon any man in order to gratify any vanity he is said to be printed- I have not seen the letton that Fort Sumter was about to be relieved, may have on the subject. I care nothing about | ter itself-in the New York Times. It is and in consequence of that the rebel fire was that. That is the furthest thing in the world reviewed in an article sent to me in Wilkes's opened upon Fort Sumter. He is the man who from my intention. But as I said before, if | Spirit. has within a short time written a most infamous there are different grades and ranks of these Mr. JOHNSON. I have not seen it. letter, written as it was by a minister represent- || diplomatic agents, and in Europe some are Mr. FESSENDEN. The review I saw was ing this country abroad, to the Secretary of considered of more influence and respectability | in Wilkes's Spirit, in which it was stated that State, which he has seen fit to publish in the than others, it does not become a great nation it was a letter published in the New York New York Times. I have only seen copious | like this, in my judgment, to put its diplomatic Times, and directed to the Secretary of State. extracts from it and have not had an oppor- agents upon the lowest footing where they will I thought very well of Mr. Harvey when he tunity to read the whole of it, in which he de- be considered by European Governments as was here. He was a very good correspondent, nounced Congress in the most unmeasured standing in an inferior position ; and that and very much of a gentleman in his manners, terins, and if I understand the force of lan- || applies to the whole of them-not to Mr. Harvey | and a man of talent undoubtedly. Whether guage he intimates that it would be well for the any more than the rest of them—but to all of this is true or not, I do not know; I only say, President of the United States to eject us from them together. Why, then, discuss the charac-7| if he has written such a letter, I do not know the Halls of Congress. This is one of the gen- ter of a single one of our diplomatic agents in that he has expressed opinions with reference tlemen whom it is proposed to elevate in rank order to rebut this question or to explain it? I to Congress that would be at all disagreeable from ministers resident to envoys extraordinary | It has no bearing upon the question, and ought to the Secretary of State. I presume he knew and ministers plenipotentiary. not to have been introduced here.

to whom he was writing, and how his letter Now, Mr. President, it' we are going to give Mr. FESSENDEN. Whatever we may do, would be received. him the honor let us not cut ourselves off from if we should adopt the amendment proposed Mr. JOHNSON. If the honorable member the opportunity, at a future day during this | by my friend from Ohio, [Mr. SHERMAN,] the will permit me, I will say that I think there session, or when the consular and diplomatic || result, in my opinion, will be the same. We must be some mistake about it. bill shall be under consideration at the next shall have, in a very short time, a statement Mr. FESSENDEN. I do not believe there is session of Congress of also conferring upon that this rank of minister plenipotentiary can- a particle. Wilkes publishes a part of the lethim a part of the Treasury of the United States not be supported on so small a salary with that ter. I hope there is, for the credit of Mr. in consideration not only of the services that dignity which the position requires. But I Harvey. he renders as foreign minister, but also in con- enter my entire dissent to the idea that the

Mr. JOHNSON. I do not know that Wilkes sideration of the services he rendered to the influence of our ministers abroad depends upon is the highest authority in the world. country while he was here, and the services whether they are called by one title or another. Mr. FESSENDEN. He gives extracts from he is rendering to us by the private communi. The thing itself is preposterous so far as my the letter. cations which he keeps up with the Secretary own judgment is concerned. The influence Mr. JOHNSON. There may be in the letter, of State and which the Secretary of State pub- which a man would have at a foreign court taken in the whole, matters that explain away lishes as electioneering documents in his organ depends, in the first place, somewhat perhaps particular extracts. in New York.

upon his own capacity, but more, unquestion- Mr. FESSENDEN. They cannot possibly Mr. WADE. I am very sorry that on a ably, upon the power of the Government that explain the language that was quoted from the question of this sort, which is purely of a pub- he represents. It is the rank of his Govern- || letter. lic character, having no reference that I know ment and the power that it has among the na- Mr. JOHNSON. Do I understand it to be of to the conduct of any individual on earth, tions of the earth that gives him power abroad. a letter to the Department? the character of a gentleman should be dragged || The idea that it is required for the protection Mr. FESSENDEN. Yes, sir. in here to be stigmatized before the public of the interests of this country in foreign courts Mr. JOHNSON. Published by the Departwhen there is no occasion for it. If the Sen- that we should change the title and the rank ment? ator from Iowa has any particular grief against of our ministers is one that does not address Mr. FESSENDEN. So I understand. I this minister I wish he had taken some other itself with any sort of force to my mind. I cannot say that the letter exists, because I have way and some other occasion to vent his feel- have no doubt there :nay be some little matters not seen it, but I have seen what purported to ings on the subject. I do not think that this of etiquette in which a higher rank would be be extracts from it published in Wilkes's Spirit. is the place or the occasion or the issue for convenient to the ministers themselves, and Mr. JOHNSON. It would be an extraorthat kind of spleen. The gentleman has gone that is all there is of it.

dinary thing, and the fault almost as much back to the time the rebels fired on Fort Sum- Now,-sir, I will venture to say—and the Sen. of the Secretary as of the correspondent, if he ter and the communication that he says Mr. ator from Massachusetts and the Senator from has received an oflicial letter from a minister Harvey made to them. I know something about Ohio [Mr. WADE) will contradict me if I am || abroad censuring Congress and published it. that letter. It was investigated at the time, when not right about it--that there are but two men Mr. FESSENDEN. It was not an official Mr. Harvey was most ungenerously charged among all our ministers resident who have ever letter. Letters are marked "official,'' I believe, with about the same thing that he has been said a word on this subject. One of them is where they are particularly meant to be kept charged with here to-day. All that he did-- the minister to Belgium and the other is the private; if not marked "official" they may be all his communications with South Carolina, minister to Portugal. I have never heard of published. I suppose this was written for with everybody, and anybody-was done with anybody else that made any disturbance about publication. the knowledge of the President and his Cabi- it. I know that an effort was made here two Mr. JOHNSON. That would trake it no pet, and at their request.

years ago to force the minister to Belgium into || better so far as the Secretary is concerned.

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Mr. FESSENDEN. With the opinion the he sends an admiral on any service, if it be same rank; but it seems that practically he is honorable Senator may have of the Secretary | only of compliment, he produces at once a not so recognized at the court where he is acI have nothing to do. I have never compared | greater effect than if he sends a lieutenant. credited. At any rate, he is not so recognized notes with him on that subject. I am not com- My friend, the Senator from Iowa, has just in the island of Hayti.' The Secretary of State menting on the Secretary's conduct in pub- || induced us to send the Assistant Secretary of has referred to the Committee on Foreign lishing the letter, if it has been published. I the Navy to Europe, because in that way he || Relations a recent dispatch from the commis. only say that if such a letter was written by | thought he should give more éclat to a certain sioner/and consul general there on this subject, Mr. Harvey to the Secretary, he understood service. I united with him in that effort. Why || with a recommendation that the Senate should perfectly well to whom he was writing, and did he do that? Why not allow one of the com- take it into consideration, and take such steps how it would be received and appreciated. mon clerks of the Department to carry that res. with regard to it as they should think best.

Mr. JOHNSON. The honorable member olution? The Senator from Iowa on that occa- The committee have considered it, and the from Maine does not seem to understand me sion knew full well that if he sent the Assistant result is the proposition now before you. I in what I said just now. Secretary of the Navy he should do more than if will read from this

dispatch a brief extract. It Mr. FESSENDEN. I beg the Senator's he sent a simple clerk of the Department; and is under date of “Port-au-Prince, Hayti, April pardon.

therefore I am brought to the precise point, | 21, 1866:" Mr. JOHNSON. What I meant to say was that whatever may be the rank of our country "Confirming a doubt whether I should add a single that I could hardly believe it possible that the in the world, and how much soever we may be

line to the already voluminous pages which I send Secretary of State would publish, or consent to entitled at all courts where our representatives

you by this mail, I cannot help asking your attention

to two suggestions which seem to me important and have published, a letter written to him, whether are, to the highest precedence, yet such is urgently called for at the present time, official or private, censuring Congress. he human nature that our position is impaired by *The first is that the functions and title of the

office held by General Cazeneau and myself”– has done it, what I did say was, that I think the rank of the agent that we send. I wish to he has offended just as much against good taste, give to our agent all those artificial accessaries

General Cazeneau has not yet been confirmed to say nothing stronger, as the writer himself. and incidents which the law of nations allows.

for any officethe I

"be changed to those of minister resident, so that particular language; I only remember, gener- of nations authorize or sanction, and why do

we can have direct access to the heads of the Govern

ments to which we are respectively accredited. ally, in casting my eye over it, that it was very our Constitution and statutes, following the * Experience has made clear to my mind two facts: offensive. I cannot say that he mentioned Con- law of nations, authorize and sanction this "1. That an active exercise of the influence of our

Government upon the two republics on this island is gress specifically, according to my recollection, | difference of rank, except because it was sup- essential not less to their welfare and progress than but it was easy to understand it.

posed that if you sent à person of a higher to the maintenance of proper relations between ourMr. JOHNSON. I think we ought to see it. rank you could obtain a corresponding degree

selves and the Antilles. Mr. FESSENDEN.

“2. That this influence cannot be exerted, if the However, with that I of influence? That is the theory which under:

representatives of our Government are kept at the have nothing to do further than this: I was lies the whole question of rank. It runs into official distance from the springs of political intiumerely saying that so far as I knew-and I beg | the Army; it runs into the Navy; it runs into

ence which they now occupy, the Senator from Massachusetts and the Sen

"To illustrate both these points: the relations beCongress; it runs into all the business of life;

tween this and the sister republic are now in a crisis. ator from Ohio to correct me, if I am in error and the simple question is, whether now, in The parties seem bent on quarreling. If anything -there is no man abroad who has written on the diplomatic service of your country, in deal

saves them from such an event, it will be the influthis subject or said anything about it except || ing with your foreign agents, you will discard

ence of foreign Governments, particularly our own.” these two gentlemen, the minister to Belgium a principle of action which you follow in every- “I cannot but think that if at this moment I could and the minister to Portugal. If there are anything else.

go directly to his Excellency I could do service at others, I should like to know it. I can under- The PRESIDING OFFICER,(Mr. POMEROY

once to my country and to these poor, distracted re

publics which would be of incalculable value. And stand, with regard to those gentlemen, why they || in the chair.) Is the Senate ready for the

it tries me, when thecase is so urgent, to be compelled would like it very well indeed. The only ques, question?

to stand aloof-a sort of lay figure. tion for us to consider is, in the first place, the Mr. SUMNER. I think I should prefer to

"The change I ask would add nothing to the exdanger that will arise hereafter with reference have the vote taken on the proposition as it

penses of the Government, and would cost no mate

rial inconvenience in any way. It would be a proper to salaries, which may be greater or may be came from the committee. On considering the compliment to a sister republic, and would withdraw less; and, in the next place, whether it is Lother proposition I see that it requires some

an indignity which we seem to impose on this Gov. advisable to take it for granted, as is stated amplification in order to be perfectly clear and

ernment by denying to it the kind of representation

we make near other Governments which are less imhere, that the rank and influence and power not to come in contact with one or two appoint- portant in themselves and which occupy much less of this country depend upon whether these gen- ments that have already been made under the

close geographical and political relations with us." tlemen who represent us are called one thing | old statute. For instance, we have envoys This is the argument which is presented by or another. I do not believe it. If I thought || extraordinary and ministers plenipotentiary at

this functionary accredited to Hayti. I can the rank or influence or position of the country Chili and at Peru. They are not in the sched- see no objection to the change. abroad depended upon the rank or title of its ule. They come under the third clause of the Mr. GRIMES. Why not include the Sanddiplomatic representative, instead of depend- statute. I think, therefore, if the Senate are wich Islands? ing upon what the country is and what it is disposed to adopt the conclusion of the com- Mr. SUMNER. That has already been done. known to be, I might vote for the amendment; mittee, they had better follow the proposition It was done last year. Our representative to but merely to gratify these gentlemen I do not which has been most carefully considered and

the Sandwich Islands is now called a minister think it is right.

digested and I think is in complete harmony | resident. Mr. SUMNER. I have no feeling on this with the existing statutes.

Mr. FESSENDEN. I will ask the Senator question at all--not the least; nor do I approach The PRESIDING OFFICER. The ques.

if it will increase the salaries. it as a political question. I see no individual tion then will be on the amendment reported

Mr. SUMNER. Not at all. in it. I do not see Mr. Harvey or Mr. San- || by the Committee on Foreign Relations, upon

Mr. FESSENDEN. The one at Liberia ford. I see nobody here to oppose and nobody || which the yeas and nays have been ordered. now gets $4,500. to favor. I see nothing in it but my country The question being taken by yeas and nays,

Mr. SUMNER. Yes, sir. and its service abroad. Sir, I think I am as resulted-yeas 15, nays 17; as follows:

Mr. FESSENDEN. This will give them sensitive as any other Senator with regard to

$7,500 each.

YEAS-Messrs. Dixon, Doolittle, Harris, Henderthat just influence that belongs to my country son, Hendricks, Howe, Johnson, Morgan, Norton,

Mr. SUMNER. The salary at Hayti is as a republic great and glorious in the history Pomeroy, Sprague, Sumner, Wade, Wilson, and $7,500. of mankind. I believe that I am duly proud

NAYS-Messrs. Buckalow, Clark, Conness, Cragin,

Mr. FESSENDEN. What are the others? of it, and conscious of the weight that it ought | Davis, Edmunds, Fessenden, Foster, Grimes, Lane of

Mr. SUMNER. Dominica $7,500 and Lito carry wherever it appears. I know that the Indiana, Nesmith, Riddle, Sherman, Stewart, Trum- beria $4,500. Noincrease of salary is intended,

bull, Van Winkle, and Willey-17. name of my country stands for something now

and I will add to the amendment the words in the world, and that whoever represents that

ABSENT -- Messrs. Anthony, Brown, Chandler,
Cowan, Creswell, Guthrie, Howard, Kirkwood, Lane

* with no increase of salary.'' country on the ocean or in the diplomatic ser- of Kansas, McDougall, Morrill, Nye, Poland, Ram- Mr. -FESSENDEN. I should like to hear vice has, alone, a great and powerful recommensey, Saulsbury, Williams, and Wright-17.

the amendment as it now stands. dation. But I also know too much of human

So the amendment was rejected.

The Secretary read it, as follows: history and too much of human nature not to Mr. SUMNER. I am directed by the Com- And the title of these diplomatic representatives know that men everywhere are influenced more mittee on Foreign Relations to move another shall hereafter be minister resident and consul genor less by the title of those who approach them. amendment, on page 6, line one hundred and

eral, with no increase of salary. Mr. FESSENDEN. Governments are not; twenty-seven of section one, to insert at the The amendment was agreed to. men may be.

end of the clause with reference to the salaries Mr. SUMNER. I move to insert on page Mr. SUMNER. My friend says Govern- of our commissioners and consuls general at 5, line one hundred and eight, after the word ments are not so influenced, men may be; but || Hayti, Liberia, and Dominica:

“Nantes" the words - St. Catharine's, in Bralet me remind my friend that Governments are

And the title of these diplomatic representatives

zil." I am directed to make this motion by composed of men. My friend knows perfectly shall be hereafter minister resident and consul the committee which I represent. well that if he sends a general on a particular general.

Mr FESSENDEN. I should like to hear service, he by his presence produces a more The title now at those three places is com- the reasons for it. certain effect and a prompter result than if he missioner and consul general. By the diplo- Mr. SUMNER. The explanation of this sent a colonel or a major.' My other friend, matic statute of the United States a commis. amendment is as follows: St. Catharine's, in who represents the Naval Committee on this sioner receives the same pay as a minister | Brazil, is a port where, in times past, the confloor, (Mr. Grimes,] knows very well that if resident, and by our statute law he is of the sul has been paid by fees only, until during the


rebellion it was put on the $1,500 list. The could be placed in association with the com- as a private claim. He is to go on for the best object of my motion is now practically to con- missioner appointed on the side of the British part a year yet in performing and completing tinue it on that list. We are represented there Government. The interests that were to go the services for which he was appointed. It by a gentleman of peculiar merit, who has before them were very considerable; and it seems to me to come directly within the provgained the confidence of the Department, and appears from a communication, which I shall ince of a bill of this kind to provide for serof all who are familiar with his services there, have read in a minute, that they have already || vices yet to be rendered. by his fidelity and ability. I mean Mr. Lind- amounted to $5,000,000. At that time it was Mr. FESSENDEN. I suggest to the Senator say, of New Bedford, Massachusetts. Of course, || supposed that the services might be completed that perhaps the difficulty may be avoided if it bis salary is stopped, and he is remitted to within five or six months, certainly within a the ainendment is put in a different shape. If his fees, he will not be able to continue there. year, and it was on that account that the com- the Senator will offer an additional section to It is regarded as important by those familiar pensation was placed, as it was, at $5,000. the bill providing that the services of Mr. Johnwith the place, and who transact business there, But instead of being completed within a year, son may be continued until a specified time, that a person of Mr. Lindsay's character should the service is still going on, and I understand will making it a provision of law, and that for the be our consul there. It was only a few days not probably be completed before next Jan. additional services to be performed by him he ago that I presented to the Senate a petition, uary. Meanwhile, this distinguished gentle- shall receive the sum of $3,000, I suppose, if which was duly referred to the Committee on man whom we enlisted in this service is neces- it is recommended by a committee, it would be Commerce, from citizens of New Bedford on sarily withdrawn from, I may say, the career in order. But simply to put in this bill an this subject. Perhaps I have never presented in which the Senators from New York, I be- || appropriation of $3,000 in this way I think to the Senate a petition more respectably lieve, will testify, he was so eminent, and he is out of order. I make the point in this case signed; every signature representing the great- is left simply for this long service of more than || reluctantly, but I make it because I feel obliged est respectability, and, I may add, the largest two years with the sum of $5,000. On taking to make it. The law is exhausted. If he has wealth. As it is very brief I will read it: the case into consideration, the committee rendered these services it is a claim against the

Government. "The undersigned, citizens of New Bedford, in the thought it advisable to recommend an addi

If you want to provide for a State of Massachusetts, interested in the whale fish- tion of $3,000, by way of completing what I l continuance of these services, and payment for eries, respectfuily represent: that St. Catharine's, in will again call the round sum for his services. || them, that can be done in a separate section. Brazil, is an important place of resort of our whaling fleet, and it is essential to our interests that the con

I will send to the desk a letter which has been Mr. JOHNSON. It comes recommended sulate at that place should be filled by an American received from the commissioner himself in from the committee, does it not? competent to the performance of his duties; that the which he sets forth the case.

Mr. FESSENDEN. Not in the shape that present incumbent, Benjamin Lindsay, Esq., we regret to learn, will be compelled to relinquish the post Mr. FESSENDEN. I think it is a private I suggest. It comes from them merely as a unless the salary of the office, which has ceased by claim.

recommendation of $3,000 more to be approthe termination of the war, shall be restored ; and as Mr. SUMNĖR. Oh, no, it is not. It is priated. the fees of the office are very inconsiderable, the result will doubtless be the transfer of its duties to for salary.

Mr. JOHNSON. It does not come in the some foreign and incompetent person. We therefore The PRESIDING OFFICER. The com- shape the Senator suggests, but the honorable respectfully pray that the salary of the consulate at

munication will be read if there be no objec. chairman of the Committee on Foreign RelaSt. Catharino's may be restored.” tion.

tions can put it in that shape. This is signed by John H. Clifford, and a The Secretary read it, as follows :

Mr. SUMNER. I will put it in any form to large number of other citizens whom I have

ALBANY, April 28, 1806.

suit the views of Senators. The vote of the already described.

DEAR SIR: When it was proposed to me to accept

committee was that the chairman be directed I have also here a letter from a gentleman the place of United States commissioner under the to move on this appropriation billan additional well known, formerly a member of the House treaty for the final settlement of the claims of the

$3,000 for Judge Johnson as further compenof Representatives, Hon. Charles B. Sedg

Hudson's Bay and Puget Sound Agricultural Com-
panies it was understood that the matter would be

sation for his services. wick, of Syracuse, carnestly recommending finished in four or five months. I was appointed in Mr. JOHNSON. I suggest to my friend from that this consulate should be placed in the July, 1864, but did not succeed in meeting the British

commissioner until tho succeeding January. $1,500 list. This is all I have to say about it.

Massachusetts to let the amendment be passed then found that looking to the nature and gravity of over for a moment, and then he can redraw it It seems to me from what I understand, and the claims amounting to $5,000,000, and involving very so as to meet the suggestion of the chairman from my inquiries at the State Department- important questions of public law as well as a difli

of the Committee on Finance. for I have made it the subject of conversation

cult inquiry of fact, we were not in the possession of
the requisite evidence on which we could proceed to

Mr. SUMNER, I am perfectly willing to there--that it is important that we should be a decision. We thereforeset on foot the procurement accept any form. I will draw it to meet the well represented at this place. Perhaps what of testimony on the part of the claimants of the UniI have said may serve to distinguish this case ted States and it is now ascertained that the matter

suggestion of the Senator from Maine. will not be ripe for hearing before January, 1867.

Mr. NESMITH. I have some familiarity from other cases, and will induce the Senate to You will readily understand that this is a very difallow it to be restored to the $1,500 list. I hope

with the proceedings of this commission, having ferent state of things from that contemplated when it may the compensation of the commissioner was fixed, and

been before it several times to testify, and know that an engagement of this sort interferes necessarily perhaps as much as almost any person of the Mr. FESSENDEN. I suggest to the Sena- with other associations.

facts to be brought before them for decision. tor that he had better insert it after the word

Under these circumstancos I think it right to ask that Congress should make a further provision upon

The commission I do not think will be able to " Barcelona," in the one hundred and sixth that subject.

get through in a year. The amount of business line.

Your obedient servant,

before them is very great, and the testimony is Mr. SUMNER. Very well; I will move to


scattered from the summit of the Rocky mountinsert it after the word “ Barcelona," in the Hon. IRA HARRIS, United States Senate.

ains to the Pacific ocean, and up and down the one hundred and sixth line.

Mr. FESSENDEN, I should think this was ocean for several degrees of latitude; and I do The amendment was agreed to.

a case where provision ought to be made; but not apprehend that they will get through in a Mr. SUMNER. I have another amendment | the question in my mind is, whether it may not year. I think if any provision is to be made to offer, to come in at the foot of page 6, which be considered in the nature of a private claim, for extra compensation or increased compensaI send to the Chair:

and if so, improperly on this bill. It seems tion to Judge Johnson it should be made now. For further compensation of the commissioner that the original law provided that $5,000 He has served very much beyond the time that under the treaty between the United States and her should be paid in full for these services. That the compensation provided for by law was adeBritannic Majesty for the final settlement of the claims of the Hudson's Bay and Puget Sound Agri: perform services which were not anticipated at

$5,000 he has received, and he has gone on to quate to; and I do not believe they will be able cultural Companies $3,000, in full for his services

to complete the business in less than twelve or and personal expenses.

the time the law was passed and he accepted | eighteen months. They have to take a great Mr. FESSENDEN. What is that for? the office. Now, if he has a claim upon Con- deal of testimony. I hope, therefore, that the Mr. SUMNER. I will tell you. The com

gress on that account, it should be provided amendment will be adopted to this bill. missioner mentioned is Hon. Alexander S.

for in an act passed for that purpose, and I Mr. HENDRICKS. It does not strike me Johnson, late chief justice of the court of ap

raise the point for the decision of the Senate. that this amendment is a violation of the rule peals of the State of New York. He was com

It strikes me it comes entirely within the rule. of the Senate. An existing law provides a missioner in 1864, under an act which I have

The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the compensation for this officer. This amendin my hand, entitled “An act to carry into Senator make the point of order?

ment simply changes that compensation. The effect a treaty between the United States and Mr. FESSENDÊN. Yes, sir. I make the existing law says his compensation shall be her Britannic Majesty for the final settlement | point that this is a private claim and cannot be $5,000. This modification of the law is that of the claims of the Hudson's Bay and Puget | put upon an appropriation bill.

it shall be $8,000. In view of the services Sound Agricultural Companies."

Mr. HARRIS. It really seems to me there rendered, the Senate can judge better now of By that act it is provided : is but little in this point of order.

what they are worth than before the services That the compensation of the commissioner shall

tleman has been performing services for the were rendered at all. If the services were be $5,000, in full for his services and personal ex

Government for now nearly a year and a half entirely completed, I think the point made by

for which he has received $5,000. He is still the chairman of the Committee on Finance The question in the committee at the time to go on and complete those services. I ad- would be well made ; but as this is, during the was very seriously considered whether he mit that when the provision was made for his || pendency of the service, a modification of the should be allowed a certain salary or given compensation it was supposed that those ser- rule of compensation, I cannot see that it is a what we familiarly call a round sum for the vices would be of much less value than they | private claim. whole business. It was understood that we have proved to be. Under the circumstances, Mr. FESSENDEN. I felt it my duty to should require the services of a thoroughly || he asks for further compensation for services | raise the point. If the Senate overrule me, I capable man, a man of high character, who yet to be rendered. It cannot be regarded Il cannot help it.

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Mr. HENDRICKS. The Chair is to decide | absolutely without blame. He has been in a dents and cashiers of banks, for anything like the question. position where, had his integrity been open to

that sum.

The new banks that were made in The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Chair the least seduction, he might have been tempted. the country were taking these men out of the prefers to take the sense of the Senate on the No human being imagines that he has ever for || Treasury Department every day in the week, question whether the amendment shall be re- a moment yielded. He has discharged his very and the only way of meeting the difficulty was ceived in the form in which it is now offered. important trusts on a very humble salary. I precisely in the mode I have suggested.

The question being put; the amendment was think the Senator from Maine knows him well Now, these clerks of the State Department received.

enough to know that he has brought to those come in and ask for an increase of twenty per The PRESIDING OFFICER.

functions an ability of a peculiar character. cent., when that twenty per cent, increase has tion now is on the adoption of the amendment. And now, in the decline of life, he finds him- not been given in any case to any of the clerks The amendment was agreed to.

self with simply the smallest salary of a clerk, in any of the Departments. I will say to the Mr. SUMNER. I offer this to come in as on which he can with difficulty subsist; and Senator, if he proposes to make an increase a new section after section two:

yet all the time rendering these important ser- of the pay of the clerks there, the proper way And be it further enacted, That there be paid to tho

vices and discharging these very considerable to do it is to ask the Secretary of State to recseveral clerks of the Department of State, twenty

trusts, absorbed in the business of the office, ommend it in the first place. The difficulty per cent, of the compensation now allowed to cach, so that he takes it home with him every night. with the Secretary of State is, that he will not to commence from the 30th of June, 1865, and to con

It goes with him in the evening and it returns recommend anything. He just sits there and tinue until repealed by Congress; and a sum suffi cient for this purpose is hereby appropriated out of with him in the morning, and then it fills the says, “Go to Congress," and will not let us any moneys in the Treasury not otherwise appro- whole day. I think that such a public servant know his opinion. If he thinks that the salpriated.

does deserve recognition in some form. I have aries in his Department ought to be increased, Mr. FESSENDEN. I hope that will not be || for a long time felt that his compensation was let him take the responsibility of saying so unadopted.

grossly inadequate. I have thought that his der his hand, and saying what class of clerks Mr. SUMNER. I send to the Chair a peti- salary ought directly to be raised; but after ought to be paid an increase, and how much, tion that has been pending for some time before consideration of the question in committee, and and then we will consider it; but we cannot the committee on this subject, which I ask to after consultation with others who were sup- get a word, and do not get a word, from the have read.

posed to be good advisers in the matter, it State Department on the subject. . They will The Secretary read as follows:

was thought best to make a recommendation recommend nothing; but they will let the clerks To the Senate and House of Representatives :

such as I have now moved, being the addition come here petitioning, without giving us the The petition of the undersigned, clerks in the De- of twenty per cent to the compensation of all information as to how much they ought to partment of State, humbly represent that their sal- the clerks in the Department. The argument | receive and what classes ought to be made of aries which were fixed when gold was current and

them. the prices of the necessaries of life were compara

for that, let me add, seems to me to be comtively low, are now entirely inadequate to their sup- pletely enforced in the petition from these gen- In the next place, this is not the proper place port with the most rigid econony. Indeed, some of tlemen which has been read at the desk. I can to put it. It should be put where we put all them who have been more fortunate than others in the enjoyment of small incomes from private sources,

see no objection to it, especially after what we such provisions, on the executive and legislahave from time to time been obliged-to sacrifice the have done for the clerks of the Treasury. Are tive appropriation bill, which covers all the principal from which those incomes were derived, to not these public servants at the State Depart- expenses of all the Departments, and not on provide themselves and their families with shelter and the plainest clothing and food. Many of them

ment as worthy as those public servants at the the diplomatic and consular bill. might earn more by obtaining employment clse- Treasury?

Mr. MORGAN. That bill has not yet been where, but some of these have been so long in office, Mr. FESSENDEN. What the Senator has passed. that, in all humility, they deem it their duty to remain until it shall be otherwise decreed, at almost

said shows that he has not investigated the Mr. FESSENDEN. No, sir. The Senator any sacrifice, believing that the knowledge and ex- subject about which he is speaking. In the from Massachusetts will have abundance of perience which they have gained is not their prop- first place, the salaries of the clerks of the time to get information on this subject, and erty, but a valuable one to the public, in whose service those qualifications have been acquired.

Treasury Department generally have not been prepare his amendment, and move it on that At the last session of Congress an appropriation increased at all, in any way.

bill; but it should not be placed on this bill. was made for additional compensation to clerks in Mr. SUMNER. Some of them have. In the first place, the amendment is improper. the Treasury Department. Your petitioners have doubt of the wisdom of that measure, but regret that

Mr. FESSENDEN. We made a provision

It raises the whole of these salaries twenty they may not have been deemed worthy of a similar a year or two ago for the female employés who per cent., without any distinction, without our boon, Supposing, however, that the apparent partiality

received $600 a year, and for the messengers, || knowing anything about it; and then it is put referred to may have been occasioned by an over

the mere laborers of the Department, giving in the wrong place. Therefore I object ensight your petitioners appeal to your sense of justico them an additional percentage; but we re- tirely and absolutely to this proposition. to place them on a similar footing with the clerks in

fused utterly to raise the salary of the clerks But while doing that, I cannot close withont that Department in respect to compensation. And your petitioners, as in duty bound, will so

generally. What we did was simply this, and saying that I concir fully in all that has been ever pray.

it was the only way to reach it: in the Treasury || said by the honorable Senator from MassachuW. HUNTER,

Department there are several clerks whose setts with reference to the merits and the claims

services are absolutely indispensable; they are of Mr. Hunter, the chief clerk of that Depart-
very able men, and men who could be heads ment.

He has been there for years, and espe. WILLIAM HOGAN,

of bureaus, who were absolutely necessary to cially through the war, without saying a word, R. S. CHELTON, JOSEPII SMITH,

the working of the Department. They were on a very inadequate salary--one of the most A. D. J. PRATT,

leaving us at the rate of eight or ten a week. faithful and valuable men in the Government. THOMAS C. COX. H. R. DE LA REINTREE,

Why? Because they got salaries of $1,800 He is absolutely poor and hardly able to scratch JOHN P. POLK,

and $2,000, when they could go out of the along. Much of the time he has been acting FERD. JEFFERSON,

Departinent and receive $3,000, $3,500, and Secretary of State. He has received but a

$4,000; and we were losing them fast, so that small salary without complaining, absolutely ROBERT A. WILSON,

we could not carry on the business of some of poor, with a family upon him. He is one of S. S. BENEDICT,

the bureaus. You could not supply their the most valuable men there is, or has been, A. TUNSTALL WELCH. M. S. SCHERMERHORN,

places; that was out of the question; and for connected with the Government for years. I GEORGE L. BERDEN,

that reason an appropriation was made out of coincide with what the Senator from MassaH. B. HASWF ELL,

which the Secretary was empowered to in- chusetts said of him, and I think we ought to W. MARTIN JONES, THEODORE W. DIMON,

crease the salaries of certain clerks where he increase his salary. That is my opinion, and E. HAYWOOD,

thought the public interests required it. It I should be glad to have an opportunity to GEORGE G. GAITHER, was the only way in which the business of the do it. JOHN KRANSE.

Department could be kept on at all. But we Mr. SUMNER. Let us do it now. Mr. SUMNER. I do not know that there is utterly refused to apply any portion of that Mr. FESSENDEN. This is not the place any necessity for me to add anything to that appropriation to raising the salaries generally to put it on, and I object entirely to having it petition. It speaks for itself

. It states the of the clerks in the Department. Since then, || here. Why insist on having it here? whole case.

But perhaps I should add one the clerks who did not get any of it, and who Mr. SUMNER. I will tell you. I have a word at least with regard to one of the public are overpaid, or paid amply—the first-class servants there, the gentleman who heads the clerks, for instance, who get $1,200, the most Mr. CONNESS. I hope the Senator from petition, Mr. Hunter. He is one of the oldest of whom do not earn any more than that, and Massachusetts will withdraw the amendment public servants now connected with the Gov- of whom you could get five thousand at any now pending and substitute for it a proposition ernment. He has been in the Department of time-made a howl about it, and said, “Here to increase, and increase to a respectable exState for more than thirty years. He may be you have been raising the salaries of persons tent, the salary of Mr. Hunter; and I beg to called the living index to that Department; and who receive the biggest compensation, and not say to the honorable chairman who has this I believe I do not err if I say that in all the given those who receive the least anything.' bill in charge, that although it may appear public service there is no person whose integ. That is true in point of fact; but the reasons irregular to affix it here, the compliment well rity is more absolutely above suspicion. Placed are perfectly obvious. We were obliged to do deserved will be the greater to Mr. Hunter if in a position of the greatest public trust, where it. There is a very great difference in the we embrace the earliest opportunity to render all the foreign correspondence of this Govern

We could get plenty of boys at $1,200 him a measure of simple justice. I will not ment passes under his eye, that which comes a year, and it is all they earn, and probably | undertake to add anything to the well-earned to the Government and that which leaves the ample pay for them; but you cannot get ac- reputation of that distinguished gentleman and Government, I believe he has passed a life II complished, able men, who are fit to be presi- Il faithful public servant; but I am prepared to



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