Obrazy na stronie

announced that the President of the United Sko.5. And be it further enacted, That the said com- bill, with the same privileges and subject to all States had approved and signed, on the 25th

pany shall have the same privileges in every partic-
ular, with reference to the said lapids which are now

the liabilities of preëmptors, save and except instant, the following acts and joint resolution:

by law granted to ordinary preemptors, with refer- so far as they may use the timber on the land An act (S. No. 89) to issue American regis- ence to the wood and timber on the said lands, with the for building and running their iron-works. We ters to the steam vessels Michigan, Despatch, exception of so much as may be necessarily used by

require them to make the surveys at their own and William K. Muir, and for other purposes ;

the said company in the erection of buildings and in

their legitimate business of manufacturing iron, expense. We require them, before they shall An act (S. No. 146) for the relief of Thomas F. Wilson, late United States consul at Bahia,

Mr. HENDRICKS. It is right that I should

receive a title to the land, to satisfy the Secre

tary of the Interior that they have built on Brazil ; say that the committee was greatly influenced

these lands iron-works capable of turning out, An act (S. No. 150) for the relief of Theo

in consenting to the passage of this bill by the dor G. Eiswald ; and peculiar condition of the mining interests in

and turning out, fifteen hundred tons of iron Montana. That interior Territory is so far

per annum. A joint resolution (S. R. No. 29) for the

If they fail in any one of these transfer of funds appropriated for the pay. removed from any of the ordinary means of

conditions they forfeit their entire right, and

they are compelled to pay for the land the price ment of salaries in the Post Office Department || transporting the machinery which is necessary

of $1 25 per acre. to the general salary account of that Departfor carrying on mining business that the devel

The whole departure from what I understand ment.

opment of the mining interests of the Territory
is likely to be very greatly delayed. It was rep-

to be the ordinary policy of the Goverument is resented to the committee that this company

in allowing this company to take up more land Mr. ANTHONY. I move to take up Senate would establish iron-works and soon produce | One hundred and sixty acres of land would

than it can take up under the existing law. bill No. 277.

iron in the Territory itself. It is known that The motion was agreed to; and the bill (S. there are very valuable iron mines in that Ter

pot justify an iron company in establishing No. 277) for the relief of William Cook was ritory; at least it was so represented to the

iron-works. They must have timber for coalread the second time and considered as in Comcommittee in such a manner that the commit

ing. They cannot get it under the existing mittee of the Whole. It proposes to direct the tee had confidence in that representation; and

law. If they go upon the unsurveyed lands Secretary of the Treasury to pay to William

without a law of this kind, they are trespassers with great reluctance I consented to the reportCook $200 for the use and occupation of his

and liable to be sued and mulcted in damages ing of the bill upon the peculiar state of the land in Washington city by order of the War case. I desire to say that the committee un

for every offense. Without the timber, they Department. derstand that this shall not be a precedent to

cannot do the work. The question then is, The bill was reported to the Senate without amendment, ordered to be engrossed for a third | public lands. This is not to form a precedent, Treasury the ordinary price of the public land,

shall they, or shall they not, be allowed to any special privileges in the purchase of the take up this land upon paying into the public reading, read the third time, and passed. so far as the committee is concerned, in any NEW YORK AND MONTANA IRON COMPANY. other case.

and establishing works there before they can

receive title to their land? It struck the comMr. WADE. I move that the Senate take

Mr. GRIMES. I should like to inquire of the mittee that it was necessary for the developup Senate bill No. 203 for consideration. Senator from Indiana, under what law this New

ment of that Territory, and it would tend to The motion was agreed to; and the Senate, York and Montana Iron Mining and Manufac

do what they thought was required to be done as in Committee of the Whole, proceeded to turing Company was incorporated, and whether

at this time, especially when we nave such consider the bill (S. No. 203) to enable the or not he has seen the charter.

heavy drains upon our people in the way of New York and Montana Iron Mining and

Mr. HENDRICKS. The bill was not under | taxation, to increase the productive wealth Manufacturing Company to purchase a certain my charge in the committee. The Senator from of the country, to some extent, without at all amount of public lands not now in market.

Iowa [Mr. Kirkwood) had charge of the bill, || injuring the public. The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Com- and made the investigation. I understand that Mr. POMÈROY. I have not had my attenmittee on Public Lands have reported the bill it is a company incorporated under the laws of tion called to this bill, until this moment, with an amendment to strike out all of the the State of New York.

since it was reported. I think there is an original bill after the enacting clause and to Mr. KIRKWOOD. I will give my colleague | oversight in it. The Senator who drafted tho insert a substitute. The substitute only will be the information that he desires on that point. amendment has neglected to exclude preëmpread unless some Senator asks for the reading This company was chartered under a law of tion claims or homestead settlements, and of the original bill.

the State of New York, and I hold in my hand | under the bill as it now stands this company Mr. WADE. I suppose it will not be neces- a copy of the articles of incorporation. They may locate over a settler. sary to read anything but the amendment of the were submitted to the Senator from New York, Mr. KIRKWOOD. The Senator is miscommittee.

[Mr. Harris,] who is a member of that com- taken, I think. If it is so it is a mistake in The Secretary read the amendment, which mittee, and I believe they are in accordance the bill undoubtedly. was to strike out all after the enacting clause with the laws of New York.

Mr. POMEROY. To settle that question I of the original bill and to insert the following While I am up I will say a word with regard | will move that the proviso contained in tho in lieu thereof:

to the bill itself, and in explanation of its pro- | original bill be added to this amendment. That That the Now York and Montana Iron Mining and

visions. The public lands of Montana Terri- || proviso is in these words: Manufacturing Company be, and they are hereby, tory have not been surveyed, and therefore can Provided, That no title shall be conveyed to any authorized, at any time within one year after the only be located under the existing preëmption

mineral lands except iron and coal, or to any lands approval of this act by the President of the United

held by virtue of any title of possession or other kind, States, to proëmpt two tracts of land in the Territory law, limiting the amount, I think, to one hun.

valid at the time of the sclcction and location of the of Montana which, in the aggregate, shall not exceed dred and sixty acres. Mining is being carried said tracts. twenty sections, not included in any Indian reservation or in any Government reservation for military on there to a very considerable extent, and in

Mr. CONNESS. I should like to inquire or other purposes, three of which sections may bo

mining operations and in other operations | how the Senator would construe or has conselected of lands containing iron oro and coal, and there iron is necessarily used to a large exthe remaining sections of timber lands near the said

strued the term “valid" in that proviso. Does tent. We know that now the iron used in selections containing iron ore and coal, which selec

he mean by that the possession of one of the tions shall be subject to the approval of the Secretary that Territory has to be furnished from the

inhabitants? of the Interior.

iron manufactories of Pennsylvania and else- Mr. POMEROY. Yes; I mean a squatter, SEC. 2. And be it further enacted, That the said company may acquire immediato possession thereof on where, and carried to St. Louis, and up the

a settler. the selection of the said lands by permanently markMissouri river to some point from which it is

Mr. CONNESS. Then you had better leave ing their boundaries and publishing a description started on wheels out to Montana, or else out the word “valid” and have it " any locathereof in any two newspapers of general circulation in the said Territory. brought by rail to Iowa, wheeled across Iowa,

tion in possession; otherwise these sections Sec. 3. And bc it jurther enacted, That it shall be the and then by wheels carried to Montana. The

of land may cover all the acquired rights and duty of the Secretary of the Interior to cause patents result is that the freight upon the iron used in to issue to the said company for the said lands on the eonditions mentioned in this section, all of which that Territory must be from thirty to thirty-five || company are authorized to go there and select

property of the entire community there. This must be complied with within two years from the cents per pound. This state of affairs must

the timber lands as well as the iron mines. approval of this act by the President of tho United necessarily be a great drawback upon the prosStates, or the said lands shall rovert to the United perity of that Territory, and if we can in any

Mr. POMEROY. My intention is to preStates :

vent them from going on any settlement: 1. That the said company shall have the said lands legitimate way reduce to them the expense of

Mr. CONNESS. That is all right if the carefully survoyed at their own expense, and shall iron used there, it seemed to the committee fle a plot of the same in the General Land Office of

Senator will so draw his amendment as to the United States, which surveys shall be by lines

proper so to do.

We are expending a great || fully carry out that idea. running north and south, and cast and west, and each deal of money that does not bring back money Mr. KIRKWOOD. The proviso to the first of said tracts of land shall be as nearly in a squaro again to the public Treasury or increase the section of the original bill was intended to be form as may be practicable. 2. That the said company shall have furnished the

wealth of the country; and if we can legiti: || attached to the amendment roported by the Secretary of the Interior evidenco satisfactory to him mately legislate so as to increase the wealth

committee. that they have erected, and have in operation, in one of the country and the prosperity of these Mr. POMEROY. It is an oversight, I see. or more places on the said lands, iron-works with a capacity for manufacturing at least fifteen hundred

western Territories, it seemed to the committons of iron per annum. tee well to do so.

I move, then, that the proviso contained in

the last section of the original bill be added to 3. Thatthesaid company shall have paid the United What the committee therefore propose to do States for the said lands the minimum price of $1 25

the first section of the amendment. is, not to give to this company any lands whatper acre.

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. It is moved SEC. 4. And be it further enacted, That the said ever; not to give them an acre of land, but to

to amend the amendment by adding at the end patents shall convey no title to any mineral lands allow them, in advance of the survey which we except iron and coal, or to any lands held by right of

of the first section the following: will not make, or do not make, at all events, possession, or by any other title, except Indian title,

*Providri, That no title shall be conveyed to any valid at the time of the selection of the said lands. to take up the quantity of land named in this mineral lands except iron and coal, or to any lands



held by virtue of any title of possession or other kind, of the committee. If they have not done so, laid aside informally for five minutes, I think valid at the time of the selection and location of the

any amendment which will secure that object, we can complete this. said tracts. of course, will be coincided in.

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The speMr. KIRKWOOD. The committee intended

Mr. CONNESS. I hope the bill will be laid cial order is House bill No 11. It is suggested to have that proviso in the substitute reported over at present.

that that bill be laid aside. It can only be by them, and how it came to be omitted I do

Mr. WADE. I think this bill is very well done by common consent, except on motion. not know.

Mr. NYE. I move that that be laid aside Mr. CONNESS. I do not know whether I guarded so as to prevent this company from that proviso would cover the case fully. The taking lands to which any other person what

for the purpose of taking up the business asever can make claim. When a person can word "title" in that proviso means that no

signed for this hour, the iron-clad question. title in fee-simple, such as is proposed to be acquire no title whatever, I do not really see

["Oh, no.''] what title he can get. If a man is on there by Mr.' CONNESS. I wish to suggest to the conveyed by this bill, shall be conveyed to the possessions of other settlers; but it is a ques

a preëmptive title, by any possessory title, such Senator from Ohio, who introduced this bill,

a title is a title by which he can defend himself tion whether under that proviso and by the

that another objection occurs to my mind bill this company would not get an equal right having a better title. It is true that the title

at law, of course, against any other person not which, if I had time to state it, would, I think, with those possessors to go upon the land;

make it necessary to lay it aside for further whether they would not get some right that

is not perfect; it is not a fee-simple; he has consideration. I do not wish to occupy the would enable them to disturb those possessors.

not acquired that yet; but if he is in possession time of the Senate by stating it now, and I

he has a right against everybody else but the hope he will let it go over. If the Congress of the United States shall see fit owner or one who can show a better title.

Mr. WADE. Very well, let it go over ; but to give to any company, for the purpose of en

I introduced this bill, and I have no kind of couraging the production of iron or any other objection to its being made as strong and secure

I give notice that I shall attempt to take it up industry in our Territories, a certain amount

to-morrow morning, if I can, and try to put it of the public lands which will be deemed not

in that particular as it possibly can be. The through. extravagant, I have no objection. I think the only object of the bill is to anticipate the sur

veys in that Territory. If this land had been purpose is a good one and would promote the welfare of those communities. But this prosurveyed and offered for sale it would be sub

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The speject to entry like the other lands we have. All | cial order is House bill No. 11, to facilitate viso, it appears to me, is not sufficiently clear and precise to protect the possessors of land | the country has not been surveyed; otherwise this company want is to anticipate that, because commercial, postal, and military communica

tion among the several States, which is before among this population against the provision

they might enter there and take possession of the Senate as in Committee of the Whole, and contained in the bill. I would prefer, if the friends of this measure would not object to it, as much land as they could pay for at the Gov

will be read. to have the bill laid over at present so as to ernment price; but the survey is not made, the The Secretary read the bill

. Its preamble reland is not in market in this remote region.

cites that the Constitution of the United States have an opportunity to look it over. Mr. KIRKWOOD. If gentlemen look at

People are going in there in great numbers, confers upon Congress, in express terms, the

and there is no commodity more valuable to power to regulate commerce among the ser. section four, they will see, I think, that this

them than iron. There is none more difficult eral States, to establish post roads, and to raise matter is provided for:

to obtain on account of the distance they have and support armies; and it is therefore proThat the said patents shall convey no title to any mineral lands except iron and coal, or to any lands

to transport it to get there; and this company posed to authorize every railroad company in held by right of possession, or by any other titlo, || believe that if they could get the right to go in

the United States, whose road is operated by except Indian title.

there and to make iron it would be profitable steam, its successors and assigns, to carry upon Mr. GRIMES. I would call the attention to them and greatly beneficial to the people of

and over its road, connections, boats, bridges, of my colleague and the chairman of the Com- the Territory. I think it would. I know some and ferries, all passengers, troops, Governmittee on Indian Affairs especially to that of these parties, and I know that the company

ment supplies, mails, freight, and property on clause. It reads as follows:

were about to commence operations there with- their way from any State to another State, and And be it further enacted, That the said patents shall out any particular title, only such as they would to receive compensation therefor, and to con. convey no title to any mineral lands except iron and coal, or to any lands held by rightof possession, or by acquire by possessory right; but the principal

nect with roads of other States so as to form any other title, except Indian title, valid at the time man, Mr. Ward, of Michigan, who is one of the continuous lines for the transportation of the of the selection of the said lands.

greatest iron manufacturers, I believe, in the same to the place of destination. The act is Is it intended here that this company shall country, said at once he would take no inter- not, however, to affect any stipulation between take the Indian title out from under them? est in such an enterprise unless they could be

the Government of the United States and any Mr. KIRKWOOD. Not reservatious. assured of timber, as they would have to work railroad company for transportation or fares

Mr. GRIMES. But any Indian title? Is it their iron by coal. When they found a loca- without compensation, nor impair or change designed to confer on this corporation existing || tion where iron could be easily got, men around the conditions imposed by the terms of any act in the State of New York, not authorized by them would at once take possession of the tim- || granting lands to any such company to aid in the Territorial Assembly of the Territory of ber in the neighborhood, and would have it in

the construction of its road. Montana, to go out into Montana and take their power to defeat them, in a great measure, Mr. MORRILL. Mr. President, I was not nearly half a section of land right out of the or put them to such inconvenience and expense aware that this bill had been reported from Indian Territory-land of Indians with whom to get the timber for coalas to defeat the objec the Committee on Commerce to the Senate. I we have treaty stipulations to preserve them Therefore they had no other way to do but to believe there is another bill of a similar charin the possession of?

ask Congress, in anticipation of the surveys, to acter which has been before the committee, Mr. KIRKWOOD. Only such as can be give them the right to purchase lands sufficient and which originated in the Senate. At this entered, such as I would have the right to go for that purpose; and that is all that they want; moment I am not sure that I quite understand upon or my colleague would have the right to it is all that the company desire to have. the distinction between the two bills. I think go upon.

The Committee on Public Lands have had they are nearly similar, but I am not quite Mr. GRIMES. Where is that limitation ? this bill under consideration and they have certain. It was my purpose on a former occa

Mr. KIRKWOOD. That I apprehend is the | amended it and put it under every restriction sion to address the Senate upon this subject; limitation of the bill as it stands.

that they could think of, and they have put but I find myself here at the present moment Mr. GRIMES. I do not understand it so. them under no restriction, I believe, that they without any expectation of this bill being preI do not find any limitation here. I find that considered disadvantageous to them, their hon- sented to the Senate to-day, and I am not in a according to the legitimate construction of this

est purpose being not to acquire title to land condition to make any extended remarks. The clause this company can take any lands except except in order to carry on this iron business ; bill is of a character which I think should such as may be held by some adverse posses- and when that is preserved I do not care what | challenge the attention of the Senate. It was sion or right, other than that held by an Indian restrictions you put upon them to hold them passed in the other House, if I am permitted title. That they can take.

to that purpose, as I think the bill does in to allude to so much of the proceedings of that Mr. CONNESS. I will say to the Senator every particular. If, however, Senators believe House as I gather from the debates, without that this fourth section gives no protection to there is any chance for them to get possession much consideration, either at this or at the the possessors at all, as I understand it. The || in this way of lands to which others have a former session of Congress; and if I could language is :

right or title, if that is not sufficiently secured, bring myself to the conviction that it was not That the said patents shall convey no title to any I shall not object to any amendment on that a bill fraught with the most dangerous consemineral lands except iron and coal, or to any lands held by right of possession, or by any other title, expoint that may be suggested.

quences, I should be content to give a silent vote cept Indian title, valid at the time of the selection of

The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The morn- upon it. But, sir, it is a bill of most marked the said lands.

ing hour having expired it becomes the duty of impression. It is a bill which strikes down The possessors have no "valid title." the Chair to call up the special order, which deep to the very foundations of the Govern

Mr. KIRKWOOD. A title that no one else is House bill No. 11, to facilitate commercial, ment. It is a bill that will be remarkable for can interfere with.

postal, and military communication among the all time in the legislation of this country if it Mr. CONNESS. It is not a valid” title. several States.

pass. It is a bill that at once arrests the Mr. KIRKWOOD. It is valid against every. Mr. WADE. I would ask the Senate, if they | attention of whoever reads it as one which body else.

are willing to go on with this bill, to do so, for runs the line between the powers of this Gor Mr. CONNESS. If you will make it valid I know it is a bill of the utmost importance; ernment which are known, delegated, and exagainst the parties whom this bill is intended if this right is to be granted, it should be done pressed, and those which are doubtful, latito serve, I shall be satisfied.

tudinarian, and never to be entered upon except Mr. KIRKWOOD. That was the intention

Mr. POMEROY. If the special order is with caution.

at once.

I sup

It proposes, sir, in a word, to take by the ple of New Jersey; I know nothing of the cir. of the Senator from Ohio is not a debatable power of the General Government the direc- cumstances of this case other than I have heard motion, tion of the internal railway system of the Uni- them detailed upon this floor. My objection Mr. SHERMAN. I withdraw it for the ted States. This is the proposition. I know lies to the bill because it is so broad and com

present. it may be said that it only proposes to regulate | prehensive, because while it is said that it is Mr. GRIMES. I was only going to suggest it. Io regulate is to control; to control is aimed at a monopoly in New Jersey, it is broad to the Senator from Ohio that it seems to me to direct; and under whatever branch you enough to cover the whole American railway this is a very opportune time to consider this seek to exercise this authority, whether by the system. In the last thirty years this Ameri- matter. We have now under consideration the commercial power or by the power to regulate can system has grown from the smallest begin- | bill pressed by the chairman of the Committeo the postal service, or by that to raise and sup- nings to be the grandest system of intercom- on Commerce to relieve the country from one port armies and navies, it is the same thing;

munication the world has ever seen. To-day monopoly; and this is to establish another still it is substantially to assert the power by the not less than thirty thousand miles of railway more odious. General Government to reach out its hand communication exist in the several States, the Mr. SHERMAN. I will turn that question and lay its strong arm on the great American | product of the energy, the industry, and the over to the Senator from Maine, (Mr. Morrailway system. That is what it is, and I stand | capital of these States.

RILL.] here to invite the attention of the Senate to so


Mr. CHANDLER. If the Senator from extraordinary a proposition as that. I ask

A message from the House of Representa

Ohio desires that this question shall go over, Senators what is the exigency which justifies

I or demands it, and I ask Senators to point me tives, by Mr. McPherson, its Clerk, announced

have nothing to say against that. that the House of Representatives had passed

Mr. GRIMES. I should like to that provision of the Constitution which

look into justifies it and authorizes it in clear, explicit, the following bills of the Senate without amend

it and see what it means. ment:

Mr. CHANDLER. Let it go over. and intelligible phrase, not by doubtful interpretation.

A bill (S. No. 158) to facilitate the settle- || posed there would be no objection to tho

ment of accounts of the Treasurer of the Uni- amendments of the other House, and there. First, sir, as to the exigency which justifies it or demands it; has anybody told you of any.? | United States, or to the persons to whom they ted States, and to secure certain moneys to the

fore I asked for the consideration of the bill at

this time. What is the American railway system? Is it the creation of the Government of the United

are due, and who are entitled to receive the The PRESIDENT pro tempore The bill States in any respect whatever? Not a bit of same; and

and amendments will be laid over by common

consent. it. It has grown up spontaneously out of the

A bill (S. No. 255) to remit and refund certain duties.

INTER-STATE INTERCOURSE. energy and the industry of the people exercising their functions in their primary and in their


The consideration of the bill (H. R. No. 11) municipal capacities, the Government of the The message also announced that the House to facilitate commercial, postal, and military United States all the while standing afar off, of Representatives had passed the bill (S. No. communication among the several States was doing nothing and proposing nothing.

26) to encourage telegraphic communication resumed. I heard it said on a former occasion that the between the United States and the island of Mr. MORRILL. It is not my purpose, Mr. exigency grew out of the fact that one of the Cuba and other West India islands and the President to make a formal speech at this time States of this Union had usurped authority, | Bahamas, with amendments, in which the con- upon this bill. When interrupted I was advertusurped power, and created an unjust monop- currence of the Senate was requested.

ing to the fact that the system of railways in oly, and that this measure was necessary to Mr. CHANDLER. With the permission of this country, upon which now the Government remedy that. Why, sir, is the Senate of the the Senator from Maine, I desire to ask the purposes to lay its hands, is the product of the United States the place for the correction of Senate to concur at once in the amendments || industry and energies of the people of this such grievances? Are not the courts of the made by the House of Representatives to Sen- country unaided by their Government, acting United States open? If the State of New ate bill No. 26.

in their primary relations, and acting upon the Jersey, to which reference is made, and whose Several Senators. What are they?

exercise of those reserved rights which constilegislation is here arraigned, has been guilty of Mr. CHANDLER. One fixes the rate of tuted the strength of this Government in the granting an unconstitutional monopoly, is this telegraphic messages.

past and will continue to constitute that strength the place, is this the forum, to correct it? By No objection being made, the Senate pro. in the future if they are left unimpaired. It is ao means. The courts are open, and any party ceeded to consider the amendments, and they || because the Government undertakes to lay its aggrieved, any interest offended, has a remedy were read. The first amendment was in sec- hand upon this industry, peculiar to the people, in the courts, and that should be a sufficient || tion two, line three, to strike out the words and in which the Government has not particianswer to that part of the argument.

“ during a state of war ;'' so as to make the || pated, and it is because the Government steps It is said, moreover, that it exists as a griev. | section read :

far over, I think, the line which guards and ance, it is a monopoly, and that the action of That the said International Ocean Telegraph Com- which should be held to guard those rights New Jersey is in restraint of the commerce of pany shall at all times give the United States the

which have been delegated and those which free use of said cable orcables, through a telegraphic the country, of the free intercourse of the peooperator of its own selection, to transmit any mes

have been reserved to the people, that I feel ple of the country. Now, Mr. President, a sages to and from its military, naval, and diplomatic any solicitude at all


this question. little brief history, a little reference to events, or consular agents.

I was remarking, sir, as to the character of puts to flight all argument of that kind at once. The next amendment was after the word this system. The grandest system of interWhat is the fact? Go back to 1830, and you "agents," in the same section, to insert these communication any country in any time ever find the whole intercourse between the cities of words :

saw, springing up out of the brain of the peoNew York and Philadelphia, by travel, carried And the said company shall keep all its lines open ple thirty years back, now spans the continent, on in ordinary stage-coaches. Perhaps as often tion, of market and commercial reports and

intellito the public for the transmission, for daily publica

sends out great arteries from every Atlantic as once a day it was practicable to pass between gence; and all messages, dispatches, and communi- commercial city on your coast to the far intethose cities in that way. The transportation of

cations shall be forwarded in the order in which tbey rior, and these in turn branching in all directhe country was carried on in ordinary lumber

shall be received; and the said company shall not be
permitted to charge and collect for messages trans-

tion over the States, have made the intercomor baggage wagons. That was so only as far mitted through any of its submarine cables more than munication of the people easy, cheap, familiar, back as 1832; nay, later, in 1838 you find that the rate of $3 50 for messages of ten words.

and have brought to the door of almost every state of things existing. To-day you may pass Mr. SHERMAN. That is a very important || farmer in the land the best markets the counand repass between those two cities twenty times || bill, and the amendments present a question | try affords. This has all been done upon that each day, and trains for transportation of all which I should like to look into. We had it || voluntary principle which the American peokinds pass nearly as often. Now, remember under discussion for some time in the Senate, ll ple know so well by their guidance and by the charge is that the legislation, the action and now one of these amendments fixes the their direction ; and who stands here to comof New Jersey is in restraint of trade, travel, rate for telegraphic messages at $3 50 for ten plain of it? Who stands here to arraign this intercourse, transportation. Well, sir, New words.

American system, to say that it has not on the Jersey, by her own policy, and by the efforts Mr. CHANDLER. Not to exceed that. whole served the grandest purposes that any of her own citizens, has done all to which I Mr. SHERMAN. That is to be the rate for instrumentality ever served any people? The have alluded. They have given this increased messages between Florida and Cuba, one hun- most that can be said of it is that in the State facility; they have done it all alone; the Gen- dred miles. The whole system of telegraphing || of New Jersey it is suggested that a monopoly eral Government nothing, as it was not proper in the United States will undoubtedly, within has been granted, which, I believe, to say the that she should do anything. A single fact of the next two or three years, undergo an entire worst of it, expires in 1868 or 1869. this kind is sufficient, I submit, to put to flight | revision and revolution. I suggest whether Now, sir, what have the American people this argument that the legislation of New Jersey | this bill had better not be laid over until the invested in this enterprise? I have shown yon is in restraint of travel, trade, intercourse, is a Senator from Maine, (Mr. F'ESSENDEN,] who its operation, its workings, beneficent beyond restriction upon the commerce of the country. took a great deal of interest in it at the time measure, stretching from Maine to New Orleans

But, Mr. President, I care to do no more of the former discussion, and with whom I and the far West, and offering cheap, quick, than to advert to these facts, because they conversed about it after the passage of the bill expeditious, safe intercommunication with all touch but very little upon the case any way. I | by the Senate, can be present. I more, there- the people; and it is in their hands. Let us object to this bill on the ground of its compre- fore, that the bill and amendinents lie on the consider for a moment what has been the exhension and scope. What it may do for Newtable for the present.

pense of this. What have this people expended ? Jersey, or what it may not do, is of very little Mr. GRIMES, Mr. President

Over three thousand million dollars have been concern with me. I know but few of the peo- The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The motion Il invested out of the earnings and out of the pock

ets of the people to the consummation of this of postal service. The uniform interpretation were referred to by the Senators who have pregrand system of railway and intercommunica- of the power of Congress under that provision ceded me at this session and at the former tion, working all harmoniously, working admi- of the Constitution has been to establish as session, recognize that distinction; it is obvirably. And now, if I do not misinterpret this post roads roads existing in the several States; ous commerce internal and peculiar to the • bill, you assert á principle which authorizes and I am confident that not a single precedent, || States, and commerce external and among the the General Government to reach out its hand either executive, legislative, or otherwise, can States. I would ask honorable Senators whose and take the direction of every mile of the rail. be found in the whole history of the Govern- attention has been given to this subject, under way system in this country.

ment where it has been attempted to push the which class does this system of internal comWould that be wise? Nobody will venture || interpretation of that provision of the Consti- munication fall? Is a railway constructed unto say that; but that is the road on which you tution beyond establishing as post roads roads der a charter granted exclusively by a State, enter. I suppose the advocates of this meas- already in existence.

built entirely within its limits and jurisdiction, ure would not pretend that it would be wise. But, sir, this measure during this session of a way for commerce peculiar to å State and I dare say they would deprecate it, that the Congress, and particularly at the last session, || entirely within it, or does it fall within that General Government should enter into this was argued by its advocates principally on the principle recognized in the Constitution of competition and take the direction of these power of the Government under the Consti- commerce among the States? railways; but, sir, you assert a principle which tution to regulate commerce. Never in the In all the books I have none of them at authorizes it, and that is what I object to. If | history of this country has the principle been hand this morning-this distinction is taken you have a right to say that roads may connect | pushed so far as is here contemplated. On this and made very clear. I recollect a case in my and shall connect; if you have a right to say subject of the power of the Government to reg. own State--I think the honorable Senator from that a railroad company in the interior of New ulate commerce we certainly have a history by Maryland had occasion to refer to it in the

Jersey-and that is precisely this case—may this time. How much power Congress had i speech upon this subject which he made at the • extend its road across that State and then under that provision of the Constitution very last session-where a grant was made for the

across the Delaware river and connect with || early sprang up in the history of this Govern- exclusive navigation of one of the navigable other roads, and that all roads, whether the ment. As I recollect the facts, as early as 1816 rivers of my State to a private company above States authorizing them will or not, shall have Mr. Madison called the attention of Congress a certain point held to be not navigable, and the right to connect one road with another, to the general subject as involved in the ques- the court held that although that river was you have thereby asserted a principle which tion of internal improvements; but it was not navigable to the sea and for some seventy or will justify the Government in establishing contended then, and during the whole period | eighty miles from the sea inward, yet at the rules and regulations in regard to the commerce of the history of legislation in this country from point where navigation terminated by reason of over these internal railways precisely as upon 1816, when the attention of Congress was first an obstruction, and above that point, although the navigable waters of the United States. drawn to the subject, down to 1830, when the navigable for twice that distance, it was inAnd that is the doctrine maintained by those whole question was thoroughly discussed by the ternal commerce and exclusively within the who advocate this bill; for it should be under- Executive at various periods and by Congress, jurisdiction of the State; that the Congress stood that the bill comes from the Committee it was never contended that Congress had the of the United States, although supreme in its on Commerce; it came, in the other House, power to give facilities to commerce by the cre- power to regulate commerce over external from the Committee on Commerce of that body, ation of artificial lighways in the several States. waters, here ceased to have any power at all; and is reported back here from the Committee And, Mr. President, I think it is no stretch of and simply because the way was wholly within on Commerce of the Senate. It is based on reason to suppose that if Congress could not the State and was not open to the sea. the power to regulate commerce; and if you create these artificial highways, if Congress If that principle is applicable to a railway, can regulate commerce in one particular over stood afar off and refused to make these inter- I submit whether a railway, which is to be these railways, you can in all. Of course it nal improvements, and the people undertook | regarded as a way for commerce, chartered by follows that you may establish your custom- these improvements in their own right and upon a State, created by a State, built entirely by a house officers in every depot and station-house their own account, I think the argument not State, and entirely within its limits and jurisin these States, and the rules and regulations | far-fetched at all that if Congress had not the diction, can possibly be interfered with by the which are applicable upon the navigable waters right to appropriate the people's money to make Government of the United States in any way regulating the transit in vessels, however borne these highways, these artificial ways of inter- whatever; whether it is not entirely beyond the on the navigable waters, may be applied to communication in the several States, they have power of the United States; and whether it is these artificial highways. It is for this reason not the right to appropriate them when the to be said that the Government of the United that I object to the bill. I object, to repeat, || people have made them themselves.

States may reach out its hand and require it to because I see no occasion for the interposition There is nothing better settled in American law connect with roads outside of the limits of the of such a power. The system works well enough than that the right of eminent domain is in the State. I maintain that all these internal railas it is. ` I object because I believe it to be States. The right to control the territory within ways, which are within the limits and jurisdicdangerous.

the limits and jurisdiction of the several States tion of the States exclusively, belong to that Now, sir, one word in regard to the author- belongs to the States and not to the General class of internal commerce which is exclusively ity, and then I shall content myself with re.. Government. It never did belong to the Gen- of the States, and over which the United States cording my vote against the measure. I have eral Government; the General Government || have no control and no jurisdiction whatever. I already said that the authority is justified ap; never claimed that it did. The General Gov. do not believe that it is for the interest of the parently in a threefold sense. First, the bill ernment never undertakes in a State to erect country that this power should be exercised. invokes the power of Congress, under the Con- a fort or an arsenal or exercise any rights what- To repeat what I have said before, I see no stitution, to regulate commerce; secondly, the ever in regard to the title to real estate except occasion for it, no exigency to call for the ex. power to establish post roads; and third, the || by consent of the States. When it was thought || ercise of this power. That it is a doubtful power, power to raise and support armies. What this | advisable to construct a national highway be- to say the best of it, I think no Senator on this nation can do in a state of war we have all of tween the waters of the Chesapeake and the floor will question. us witnessed in the last four or five years. Un- Ohio, the Cumberland road so called, Congress Mr. President, I have accomplished all that doubtedly a state of war brings extraordinary declined to act at all upon the question until the I rose to accomplish this morning. I have powers. During the state of war we did not consent of Maryland, Pennsylvania, and Vir- called the attention of the Senate to the hesitate to put all the railways in the country ginia had first been obtained, and upon the importance of this bill; and, with these brief for defense under the power of the General ground that Congress could not authorize the remarks, I shall content myself with voting Government for the time being; but nobody construction of a highway, even for military against it. supposed that that was a power to be exercised purposes, for that was the great object of that

wir ICDOUGALL. Mr. President, it was in time of peace. Nobody supposed that that road, so declared, without having first obtained my opportunity to use an instrument on the power which we exercised for the time being, the consent of the States over which the road first road that ever carried an engine in the as the extreme war power of the nation, was to was to pass. This illustrates fully, I think, United States of North America, very close to be the rule of action in time of peace, and what very many similar acts in the history of where the two Senators from the State of New that all of these railways were to be subjected the country tend also to show, that the right | York inhabit. That very circumstance induced in the future to the power of Congress and the of eminent domain is in the States. Congress me to think very much about these questions. control of the General Government under that never claimed to have the right to enter the || I rode over the New Jersey road when it was law. That is the answer to that branch of the limits and jurisdiction of any one of the States young. The Baltimore and Ohio road was argument.

for the purpose of building ordinary highways projected in 1826 I think; I shall not be exact Then, as to the question of the exercise of or railways, and I contend--and it is connected as to the date. These were great enterprises the power for postal service, let me ask, is there very closely with the argument-that if the then. It was not public capital, it was indiany precedent in the history of this Govern- Government cannot create these highways it vidual capital as a rule that built those great ment which authorizes the pushing of this prin- cannot control them when created.

railways that have made such great demonciple to this extremity? "If I recollect the But, Mr. President, all the authorities, judi- || strations in our country. It is true of the Balauthorities, none of them go any further than cial, executive, and legislative, recognize a timore and Ohio road, which when it was to assert the establishment of a post road

broad distinction between that commerce which started was a greater enterprise than the Pacific over roads or ways already existing. The is external and that commerce which is among railroad, that when it was projected by a merGovernment has never in a single instance the States, and that which is internal and chant in that city, whose name is not at presclaimed the right to make or construct, either within the States. The distinction is broad, ent in my memory, but who deserves renown, in a State or Territory, or anywhere within its well understood, and has been recognized from it was thought to be a wild and insane scheme limits or jurisdiction, a road for the purpose the earliest period. All the authorities that the attempt to climb the Alleghanies and

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deliver a line of rail on to the waters of the that is involved in this bill. While I am Congress may be different to-morrow from Ohio.

opposed to all monopolies in the States, all what they are to-day, we might as well have Mr. President, the observations which I have monopolies that are oppressive, I am not no Constitution. If the individual judgment had the opportunity to make, the lessons I || opposed to a State having the power to exer- of each individual member is to be exercised have had the opportunity to learn with regard cise the right to judge for itself when rail- without regard to what has been the constructo enterprise, have convinced me that enter- roads shall be built through its limits and tion of the instrument uniformly up to the time prise should be made as individual as possible ; || upon what terms they shall be built; for I when he undertakes to exercise his individual and perhaps in single individuality there is deem it essential to the independence of a judgment, we are without a Constitution. And more potentiality even than there is in com- State in its action upon those rights which it is essentially (as I think) mischievous if that bination. There is a false tendency in our are reserved to it.

individual judgment is to be exercised in relacountry to combinations and over-combina- These are my views on the subject. I con- tion to any of the supposed restrictions upon tions. I speak of this as a reduction, and with fess I have been brought up rather in the school the powers of Congress, or upon any of what some careful observation.

of State rights. I am in favor of a pretty strict || have been in the past supposed to be the clearly I do not propose to discuss the question of construction of the Constitution of the United reserved rights of the States. In my judgmentconstitutional power with regard to this prop

States. In time of war I know the great pow- and I speak it with all due deference--when we osition; I will only express an opinion. My ers of this Government are waked up, and we swear to support the Constitution of the Uniopinion is that this power does not exist in the exercise powers that we do not exercise in peace; ted States, we are bound to construe it, in Federal Government. If exercised, my opin- but, sir, in time of peace I would exercise no order to support it, as the framers of the inion is, it would be unwisely exercised. Why more power by this Government than is actu- strument are known to have construed it, and should we, when young enterprise bas brought || ally necessary. I would leave, as far as possi- || the people by whom it was adopted are known forth and has led to great results, by the power ble, the exercise of all governmental powers to have construed it and to have adopted it of a combination or the millions of our people, to the States, because, when left to the States, because of that construction. Looking to what interfere with the enterprises that individuals || they come nearer home to the people. The was said by the members of the Convention, have achieved and undertake to destroy them? great idea of republicanism, which is a govern- contained in the debates preserved by Mr. No wise reason, no good reason, no sound | ment by the people, comes nearer home to them Madison with great accuracy, as was admitted reason can be affirmed in favor of it. There when it is exercised by the States than when by all who participated with him in the delibmay be a reason why individuals may make a exercised by the Federal Government. If we erations of that great body of great men, and few hundred thousand dollars out of this great assume to take all this upon ourselves, the busi- in the proceedings of Congress while this deRepublic. When they do so, they wrong the ness is so vast, so immense, that this Govern- partment of the Government was filled by some millions; they violate great public law; they ment will break down under its operations. of the leading members of that Convention, it violate great public policy; and in my judg. I did not intend to go into an argument, but is perfectly obvious that such a proposition as ment violate the Constitution of the United simply to state my general view on this ques- the one upon the table never would have been States.

tion. The arguments of the honorable Sen- suggested by any member, because, in his judg. I say this much in vindication of what I think ator from Maine and the honorable Senator ment, it would have been wholly without the we must be most careful about, the fundamental from California weigh very heavy upon my constitutional authority of this department of law essential to the maintenance of our repub- mind and accord with my general views on this the Government. lican system. We have somewhat departed question.

With these general remarks, permit me to from it. I think we have departed too far. It Mr. JOHNSON. I do not know that it is call the attention of the Senate to what this bill would be well that we should pause for a mo- the purpose of any of the friends of the bill to seeks to accomplish and what powers it underment and retrieve some of our steps; that we discuss the question of authority which is in- takes to confer. Nobody even now, as far as should think not of ourselves or the immediate volved. If there is any such purpose, I should I am aware, denies that the States have authormoment, but think that a nation was not born in a day. Our fathers thought our system was Senate the views which I propose to submit. authority to charter them, it would seem to folorganized to last through time, and we must [A pause.] I


ne from their silence that low that they have the authority not to charter consider a little that lesson which is worth it is not the design of any of the friends of this them; and having the authority to exercise the thinking about by those who can consider. It bill to debate it. It would seem a little singu- | discretion of chartering, or of not chartering, was once thought in a particular period of the lar, if that be the fact, that a bill containing | they necessarily have the authority, if they past ages, before the Advent, that men were provisions never before even suggested in any decide upon chartering, to state the terms, the only immortal in their posterity. Let us not Congress, and apparently so much in conflict | conditions, upon which they will charter them; think so much about ourselves, but let us try with the Constitution of the United States, and consequently, having the authority to preto be immortal in our posterity by doing exact should not receive at least some support from scribe the terms or conditions upon which they justice and maintaining true principles. I those who think it does not violate that instru- will charter, they have a right to prescribe oppose this bill because it is not within the law ment. 'Upon a former occasion, when this what privileges they will confer upon lue holdof our present license, and I oppose it because measure, in a somewhat different shape, was ers of the franchise and what they will withit is against sound policy. These are the rea. before the Senate, I presented to the Senate hold. Those are propositions that need no sons that govern my conduct, and therefore I the reasons which, in my judgment, demon- argument, as I think the Senate will all admit. shall vote against it.

strated (to use a strong term) that it went be. What have the States done in the exercise Mr. DOOLITTLE. Mr. President, I sup- yond the constitutional authority of Congress; l of this admitted authority? They have char. pose it is beyond question that if the State of and plain as I thought that was in reference to tered such companies for the construction of New Jersey had never incorporated a railroad that bill, if the Senate will turn to the partic- railroads as they have thought proper to charcompany in that State, Congress would have ular bill upon their table, I think they will agree ter, and they have given to them certain limno power to do it. Now, what has New Jersey that this is still more obnoxious to objection. || ited powers and only limited powers. Having done? Has she interrupted commerce by cre- The bill upon its face professes to be based the authority to charter and to limit the franating a railroad across the State ? All the old upon the authority conferred upon Congress to chise, another consequence necessarily results: avenues of commerce are open still-transpor- regulate commerce between the States, and that if the powers granted are abused, if powers tation by land and transportation by water, for upon the authority conferred upon the same not granted are sought to be exercised, the freight and passengers. New Jersey ereated, department to establish post roads. It does not franchise is subject to forfeiture. That would by this railroad, a new mode of commerce. profess, therefore, to be a measure called for seem to be clear; and if that is clear, then the She had a right to do it, as a State; she had a by any military exigency; it does not intimate question of forfeiture or not must depend upon right to decline to do it, and it comes to that, that we are not in a state of peace; nor does it the law of the State by which the franchise is as it seems to me. I only speak of this case state that what it proposes to have done under | granted. The right of the State to forfeit, if it of New Jersey as one case in point.

its provisions will become necessary hereafterif be a right, is one with which the Congress of Without going into an argument on this we should at any time hereafter be engaged in the United States cannot interfere, becarise question at length, I believe for one that our a war, civil or foreign. The power, therefore, that would be to interfere with the right of the duty is not only to defend the rights of this which it assumes to exercise, is a power, if it State to charter and to fix the terms upon Government against those who assail it, but it exists at all, to be found under the authority to which she is willing to charter. is equally our solemn duty to defend the rights regulate commerce between the States, and to Now, what does this bill do? One company of the States, those rights which are clearly establish post offices and post roads. I had is sufficient to illustrate the argument, and it reserved to them in the Constitution. It seems supposed until these modern days that the somewhat simplifies it. New Jersey chartered to me that the right of a State to build high- meaning of those two powers in the Constitu- a company, the name of which, as well as I ways, to build railroads, or to refuse to build tion of the United States, with reference to such recollect, was the Raritan and Delaware Railhighways or to build railroads, is one of the a proposition as this bill involves, had been so road Company. I am not sure that I recollect rights which belong to à State. I do not long and so uniformly established that it could the name. The honorable chairman of the believe that there is a Senator on this floor not well be considered as open to further doubt. Committee on Commerce will oblige me by who will rise and say that if the State of New A constitution is worth nothing practically | giving me the name, for I suppose it has been Jersey had refused to build a railroad across if it is not to be considered as authoritatively || before him in the deliberations of the committhat State, Congress-unless it might be in a settled after years of deliberation and frequent tee on this particular measure. time of war-would have the power to charter decisions by every department of the Govern- Mr. CHANDLER. The Raritan and Delaa railroad and build a railroad across the State ment. If it is to be one thing to-day and an

ware Bay Railroad Cor pany: of New Jersey. That is exactly the power other thing to-morrow, just as the members of Mr. JOHNSON. I shought the honorablo

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