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will be $1,350 per mile, or $135,000 for the man shows me what I have always believed, Idaho, and the difficulty of reaching those first one hundred miles.

that when bills are read from the Clerk's desk, | places, must see that when we have annihilated Now, it will be remarked, and this is an item not one man in ten in this House knows what the space between here and there by the con worth noticing and remembering, that the bill is in the bills.

struction of railroads the dollars which come provides in express terms that when twenty- Now, I will reiterate a fact I have already from there now will be swelled to hundreds five miles of this road shall have been com- stated, that there is an amendment, not printed, and thousands, if not millions. pleted and put in running order, and not until but written, in the bill, by which the commit- This country is to be developed. It is the then, the Government shall guaranty the tee have attempted to guard the matter partic. | mission of the men of this day to develop the . amount of $20,000 per mile. Another fact, | ularly. The amendment provides that when heritage intrusted to us. In no other way and a very important one, connected with this the first twenty-five miles of the road are made, can the regions teeming with untold wealth be item, is that immediately on the completion of twenty-five dollars of every $100 they earn, or, developed. the twenty-five miles for which stock is guar- if you please, twenty-five cents on every dollar Now, let us look at the road in a military antied, the company shall pay into the Treas- they earn, goes right into the Government Treas- point of view. I shall not indulge in any conury of the United States twenty-five per cent. ury; not of the net earnings, but of the gross jectures.

I find that Major General Rutus Inof the gross receipts. Now, I hope that mem- receipts; not even of the gross earnings, but galls, assistant quartermaster general, uses the bers will not confound this with gross earnings of their gross receipts. If the company receive following language: or net earnings. One fourth of all the moneys money in any way, fair or unfair, the Govern

“In my opinion, from an experience of many received by this corporation on the twenty-five ment is to have one quarter of it.

years in the quartermaster's department in the West miles of road upon which the stock has been One reason why the committee are in favor

and Northwest, it is of the utmost importance to the

nation that this road should be constructed at tho guarantied to a limited amount must be paid of this bill, is that they believe they can by this carliest moment possible, and a through line of cominto the Treasury of the United States.

means aid the company to open and foster the munication opened from the great lakes to the PaNow, I have taken some trouble, to ascer- vast regions of the Northwest, which for ages

cific ocean, by the head waters of the Mississippi and

Missouri.” tain what will be the probable earnings; and past have been, and probably to come will be, I adopt as the basis of my estimates the earn- unsettled, undeveloped, unimproved, and un

That is not all. Let me now read from ings of western roads-new roads in a new tenanted without this aid; and at the same time

Quartermaster General Meigs's report for 1865. country. I have now in my mind one road on that they give this aid, the Government will not the west bank of the Mississippi eighty miles

"I am convinced that there is no difficulty to be be paying out a dollar.

apprehended from the rigor of the climate, or tho long, with earnings of about six hundred thou- Then, I ask, what becomes of the declaration, depth of snow, in the working of the Northern Pacific sand dollars per year. Taking that as the which appears in the Globe of to-day, and which

railroad, which has not been met successfully and basis of my calculation, I calculate that one has gone to the world, that the committee recom

overcome in the construction and regular daily work

ing of railroads in the States of Maine, New Hamphundred miles of the Northern Pacific rail- mend a proposition taking from fifty to sixty shire, Vermont, Michigan, and Minnesota, and in road would give $750,000 a year. By this cal- million dollars out of the Treasury of the Uni

Upper Canada, along the line of the Grand I'runk. culation, one fourth of the earnings during the ted States? I take occasion here and now to

Or the advantages to result to the country from

the speedy opening of railroad communication along year would be $187,500. This amount the | repudiate that declaration, and to say that from the contemplated line, it is hardly vccessary for me Government of the United States would receive first to last that was not the intent of the com

to speak. I can add little to the argument so well

set forth by the Senators and Representatives of the each year for the guarantee of the stock of the mittee in any respect whatever, nor can any Northwest in their appeal to Congress of the 9th of company upon the first hundred miles.

authority be found in this bill for the declara- this month. Now, gentlemen will remember that the bill tion.

“Ieretofore the War Department has not had any provides that the proceeds of all the lands on Mr. LYNCH. I would ask the gentleman

considerable interest to protect in the northern cen

tral region, for whose development and protection the south side of this road are to be paid into if he includes in the gross receipts the sales of this road is now so urgently needed." the Treasury of the United States. This, at lands by the company.

He says in another place: $2.50 an acre, will give you $24,000 to be Mr. PRICE. The Government is to get “ The enterprise is one worthy of the nation. As a added to the $187,500, which is one fourth of fifty per cent. of the sales of the lands, and military measure, contributing to national security the gross earnings of the road. And I ought to twenty-five per cent. of the receipts of the

and defense alone, it is worthy of the cost of effectual

assistance from the Government. bave stated, in connection with the $187,500, road.

“The Central railroad to San Francisco will secure that it is $52,500 more than the amount guar

Mr. LYNCH. I understand that fifty per that admirable harbor and its trade, and the rich antied by the Government. cent. to be of the proceeds of the sales of

State of California, against all serious danger from a

foreign foe. Now, if these figures are correct, and the the lands on the southern side of the road. * But our communication with the harbors of the calculations approximate anywhere near the But if lands are sold on the northern side of northwest coast, Puget sound, the mouth of the Cotruth, at the end of the year we would have the road, is the Government to be entitled to

Tumbia, and with the growing population of Oregon

and Washington, by sea froin San Francisco, will bo $76,500 more money from the proceeds of the | twenty-five per cent. of the receipts from that liable to interruption by a hostile ticct. With the sales of the land and the quarter of the gross source?

Northern Pacific railroad in operation, troops and receipts of the road, than has been guarantied Mr. PRICE. I do not understand that any

materials of war could be rapidly sent from the East

to succor and defend our rising empire in the Northby the Government. Now, gentleman may portion of the proceeds of the land north of west." answer that by saying that the land will not be the road is to be given to the Government.

I will now call the attention of the House, sold, or if sold will not sell for that amount of Mr. LYNCH. Would not the term " gross

and particularly of my friend from Illinois, money. Well, I will give them the benefit of receipts' include all the receipts of the road

[Mr. WASHBURNE,] to the letter of Lieutenant that objection, and admit, for the sake of argu- from sales of lands and otherwise ?

General Grant indorsing those statements. I ment, that not an acre of land shall be sold, Mr. PRICE. It might be so construed ; ask the Clerk to read it. and that the earnings of the road shall only be but that was not the intention of the com

The Clerk read as follows: such as other roads have earned in new coun- mittee. When they had provided for the value tries. And then you will still have $52,500 at of half the lands they thought they had done


April 20, 1866. the end of the year on this calculation, more tolerably well for the Governnient, especially The construction of a railroad by the proposed than has been guarantied by the Government. when in addition to that they include twenty- routo would be of very great advantage to the GovNow, I am at a loss to know how this argu- five per cent. of the gross receipts of the road.

croment pecuniarily, by saving in the cost of trang

portation to supply troops whose presence in the ment is to be met. It may do to say in broad I think I have sufficiently answered the country through which it is proposed to pass is mado terms that $60,000,000 or $50,000,000 are to be financial argument of this subject to prove necessary by the great amount of emigration to the taken out of the Treasury of the United States that there is no money to be drawn from the

gold-bearing regions of the Rocky mountains. In

my opinion, too, the United States would receive an for the benefit of a great corporation. It is one Treasury of the United States; that this is a additional pecuniary benefit in the construction of thing to make a declaration ; it is another and safe arrangement in that respect.

this road by the settlement it would induce along a very different thing to back up that declara- Mr. Speaker, the object of land grants to

the line of the road, and consequently the less num

ber of troops necessary to secure order and safety. tion by the facts and the figures. But I appeal || railroads in this country has been to develop How far these benefits should be compensated by the to the living facts for the basis of my calcula. its resources. The construction of railroads General Government beyond the grant of land altions, and for the conclusions at which I have induces settlement and causes the wilderness to

ready awarded by Congress, I would not pretend to

say. I would merely give it as my opinion that the arrived in this argument. If this road will blossom as the rose: It is necessary that this enterprise of constructing the Northern Pacific railearn what other roads in the new countries have country should be developed in its agricultural road is one well worth fostering by the General Gorearned heretofore, then at the end of the con

In addition to developing those

ernment, and that such aid could well be afforded as

would insure the early prosecution of the work. struction of the first hundred miles of this road resources we propose also by this road to reach

U.S. GRANT, the Government will have received $52,500 || for all time to come the vast mineral resources

Licutenant General. more than they have guarantied to the com- of the mighty regions now almost deserts and Mr. PRICE. Now, Mr. Speaker, I underpany.

almost inaccessible. I think it is demonstrable, take to say, from that declaration of principles Mr. TROWBRIDGE. I would like to ask then, that the Government will not only be set forth in that letter, that if the Lieutenant the gentleman from Iowa (Mr. PRICE] a ques. compensated by the one fourth of the gross re- General were here he would vote for this bill, tion. I desire to inquire whether this twenty- ceipts and proceeds of one half the lands, but for he says that the prosecution of the construcfive per cent. of the gross earnings of the road I am of the opinion that the additional benefits tion of this Northern Pacific railroad is well is to be paid at any time previous to the com- to be derived from this road will be immense, worth the fostering care of the General Govpletion of the entire road. I understand the and extend not only to this but to future gene

ernment. language of the act requires the entire comple- rations. They will be more than tenfold the Mr. WENTWORTH. I would ask the gention of the road before any of the proceeds are amount guarantied by the Government to the tleman whether the Lieutenant General is not to be returned to the Government.

company. Any gentleman at all acquainted one of the corporators. [Laughter.] Mr. PRICE. The question of the gentle. ll with the mineral resources of Montana and Mr. PRICE. I will say to my amiable friend



instruct me.

that I have not looked at the list of corporators | miles. Mind, that before the ink is dry on the on theshabeas corpus bill, so that that gentlerecently so as to be able to tell whether he is

indorsement the road is in running order, and man may be placed upon it as he had charge so or not. If he is, I have only to say that it is | is earning money, which money, by another of the bill when it was reported to the House. rather late in the day to call in question the provision of the bill, is to be paid into the There being no objection, Mr. Wilson, of integrity, honesty, or ability of that distin- | Treasury. At the end of six months the holder | Iowa, was relieved from service on the comguished general, and I presume no gentleman of the stock comes to the Government to re- mittee of conference, and Mr Cook was aphere will undertake to insinuate that he wrote ceive the interest on his guarantied stock. If pointed by the Speaker to fill his place. that letter because be was a corporator. Such in the mean time enough money has been paid an insinuation would be unworthy of any mem

NORTHERN PACIFIC RAILROAD-AGAIN. in to the Government to pay said guarantied ber of the House, as it would be unjust to that interest, the Government pays nothing. There Mr. WENTWORTH. Mr. Speaker, there distinguished man. I know that my friend does was no intention on the part of the framers is a vast deal of difference between being for not mean to insinuate it, but puts in the remark of this bill that the Government should receive a Pacific railroad and being for a particular very much in the same way as he has done a any interest on the payments it might make on kind of railroad covering or intended to cover great many other things--for Buncombe; as, account of guarantied interest on stock. the same ground. Now, there is no individual for instance, his frequent remarks aboutsoldiers Mr. SHELLABARGER. I wish the gen

here, nor is there an individual whose constitwith one leg and one arm.

tleman, chairman of the committee which uents are more interested in a northern Pacific Now, in addition to this testimony, I wish to reports this bill, would let me state what I railroad than mine are. We of the Northwest, say that in the Quartermaster General's re- understand the effect of this bill to be in some generally, are deeply interested in a bill for a port made to the House in 1865, there will be

of the respects in which I think it bad. In the north western Pacific railroad; but we have found on page 34 this statement:

rst place, the original bill incorporating this always before when a bill of this kind, involving Cost of transporting military stores westward company


upon this corporation forty | millions, came up here allowed it to be disacross the plains, by contract for year ending June

sections of land to the mile in the Territories cussed, and let everybody talk about it who 30, 1805, to Utah, and points on that route, $1,521,119. Cost of transportation of grain to Utah and posts on

and twenty sections to the mile within the wanted to do it; at least we were always willing that route, wherethe grain was delivered by contract- States. Then the third section of this bill to give our friends a fair and impartial hearing. ors and the transportation entered into the price paid enables the corporation to sell this land in fee. But, Mr. Speaker, I have myself always dissame year, $2,526,727 68; making cost for transportation in one year in this region $1,050,846 68." simple, and place the proceeds in the power

trusted any bill that brought with it a “lobby." The Quartermaster General goes on to say

of the corporation. This vast revenue is thus I have always distrusted any bill where that what is unnecessary to say, because everytaken from the Treasury of the United States,

class of men known as "the lobby'' have to and the only pledge or security that any of go behind my constituents and get them to body knows it, that the railroad would reduce

the proceeds of this land will ever go to pay the cost of transportation at least seventy-five

back the interest on stock which the Govern- Now, sir, I have lived in my district since I per cent. There are twelve military posts now,

ment has paid, and which interest may amount was twenty-one years of age. I know about some of them garrisoned by one hundred and

to from forty to sixty million dollars, is that everybody there, and about everybody there some by two hundred men, along that very the treasurer of the corporation is directed to

knows me.

And yet this class of men have route, and there will be a very great saving in

pay into the Treasury of the United States, || thought that they could instruct me about a the transportation of supplies to these posts if which is just no security at all.

inatter involving the interests of my constituthis road is constructed.

And then, sir, there is no provision at all ents among whom I have lived and among From whatever stand-point you view it, either in a military, financial, or civil point | States upon the moneys the Government has for the payment of any interest to the United whom I expect to die. Within the last three

days I have had sent to me nineteen extracts of view, it becomes an inevitable conclusion that this road will be of immense advantage | but only the principal is to be paid back.

from western papers, not to speak of sundry paid out for this six per cent. interest on stock,

instructions from the Chicago Board of Trade. in developing the agricultural and mineral

Then, again, although the United States has | Now, I hope that the man who went out there resources of the country.

and got up those instructions for me got his These are some of the reasons that induced | virtually built this road, and the stockholders the committee to report this bill. I repeat

have not, yet they require the Government to per diem and mileage. [Laughter.] And if

come in and guaranty to them that the road, he cannot get other jobs of this kind, then let that if my calculations are correct it will not

which the Government land has built for these some one try to get him the place of a clerk of take a dollar from the Treasury, and until stockholders, shall pay them six per cent. upon

one of our committees, or recommend him to gentlemen can show that the estimates upon which these calculations are made are erro

all the immense amount of stock to be issued, a place in some of the Departments.

and that, too, from the date of the issue and Now, the first knowledge I bad of this bill neous they should not undertake to deny the fact. And that fact once established, every for not exceeding twenty years.

was conveyed to me by a constituent of mine, I wish to know if these provisions are in sub

who stated that there was soine effort being other objection to the bill must necessarily

stance in this bill; and if so, does the gentle- made to create public feeling in favor of this fall. If the road can be constructed with the man think this right?

bill. "But,'' he says, "I think there is some simple guarantees of the Government affording the means to pay the expenses of con

Mr. PRICE. Before my friend goes further,

trick in it; you better watch the bill; I fear struction, it will enable the company to reI submit that he has not fairly stated the case;

they want to change the location, for it looks fund every dollar that is paid to them as because before any guarantee is made, and long

to us as if it was intended to be a Canada rapidly as the road progresses, and it will at

before any money is paid, the company must
spend at least a million or a million and a half

Now, I supposed that when this matter came the same time develop the resources of the country, and aid the civil and military oper

on the first twenty-five miles of the road, and up I would be allowed to know something about ations of the Government. These facts being so on from time to time in twenty-live-mile it

, to have a chance to examine a subject that sections. There is to be no guarantee of inter

so interests the great Northwest. But I do not established, no gentleman can find any ground of opposition to the bill now before the House.

est on stock until that is done. I am perfectly | know anything about it. Mr. SHELLABARGER. I would ask the willing, if the gentleman from Ohio prefers it,

Mr. PRICE. The gentleman from Illinois gentleman whether there is any provision in

that an accurate interest account-current shall || [Mr. WENTWORTH) says he knows nothing about this bill for the repayment to the United States be kept, and that you shall credit the Govern

it. I would ask him if he has seen the Chicago

Tribune. in any event of anything more than the actual

ment with interest on payments and charge it amount they have received.

Mr. WENTWORTH. If the gentleman bad In other words,

with interest on payments made by the company. whether the Government is to have any interSo far as I am concerned, I ask nothing but a

paid attention to my speech, he would have fair and square transaction, such as would take

seen that I alluded to all these articles in the est on the money it pays to aid in the construction of this road. I call his attention to the place between two men in a legitimate busi- | papers. provision in the second section, that "the

ness transaction; and if the gentleman wishes Last evening was set apart for the discussion an amendment of that kind made, I presume

of this bill. And when we came here we found amount so paid shall equal the amount paid by the United States, as provided in section one, there will be no objection to it. I do not think,

a bill before us involving millions of dollars, after which all further payments to the United || however, it will have any practical effect on the concerning my constituents, concerning the States shall cease." And the other provision, bill.

whole northwestern country. And it was to be so far as I understand it, contemplates only

Now, Mr. Speaker, I have no more to say

put through under the previous question. And at present upon this matter. I do not desire the payment of the actual amount which the

how is the thing to be managed? A man gets Government has furnished--nothing for interto consume the time of the House, because I

the floor and then allows about three minutes est on the money that has been paid by the am desirous for an early vote on the bill. And

or five minutes each to a few men to say someGovernment. as I do not wish to deprive others of the same

thing upon it. And considering the number Mr. PRICE. I reply to that by saying that privilege of debate that I enjoy, I now yield

who were to be allowed to speak, I estimate the floor.

that each member was worth abont ten million the committee did not contemplate that any

dollars to the company. [Laughter.]

SERVICE ON A COMMITTEE. sim should be paid by the company to the Gov.

Now, I take up the bill and examine it, and ernment for interest on the guarantee of these Mr. WILSON, of Iowa. I understood yes. I find that there is a forerunner in it, Now, bonds. And further, I call the attention of terday that the gentleman from Illinois, [Mr. || though not much of a lawyer, I have always the House again to this provision : if on the Cook,] my colleague on the Committee on the understood that if an original charter has been 1st day of July, 1867, twenty-five miles of that | Judiciary, was unwell and would not be able violated in any way, and you can by hook or road shall be finished, then the company come to be in the House. He is in his seat this crook get it recognized by any little side-way to the Government and say that it must indorse morning, and I therefore ask to be excused | legislation afterward, it will remove all the their bonds for $20,000 a mile on each of those || from serving on the committee of conference | difficulty. Now, I looked at the bill with that



view. And then I went to the original charter, Illinois [Mr. WENTWORTII) to yield to me for I have sought information from the House to and I find there a large number of corpora- a moment.

know to whom this money is to go; who will tors. Now, it is always the way, when you Dr. WENTWORTH. Does the gentleman | give it to me? want to dignify a thing of this kind, and want from West Virginia (Mr. WHALEY] wish to say One would suppose, Mr. Speaker, what they to take a great appropriation out of the public anything on this subject?

really wanted was money to build the road. Treasury, to put in a large lot of names of dis- Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.

There is always something else in these acts tinguished people. And the gentleman from Mr. WENTWORTH. Then I yield to the of incorporation. Hence acts of incorporation Iowa (Mr. PRICE] has had read here a letter | gentleman.

should be watched. More than all we should from General Grant. All I would ask is, if Mr. WHALEY. I merely wish to say that watch acts amending acts of incorporation. General Grant has ever been concerned in when I saw my friend from Illinois upon the Let us see what it is. It is said that the peothis company since his name was put in the foor I thought it an excellent opportunity for || ple of Chicago are to be benefited by this. If original charter ?

me to speak on this subject for three or four so, then I shall be benefited with the people Now, in our western country when we get | minutes, which I knew he would not refuse of my city. pp calls of meetings we always put on some to grant me. Let me say that the argument I call attention of the House to the reason big names as the speakers, although we do not which that gentleman has presented against | why this should go to the Committee on Puh. know that they will be there; and then we this bill, it appears to me, is, to use a western lic Lands. have our board of managers to attend to all phrase, a “stumper.

Mr. WOODBRIDGE. In looking over the the little business of the meeting. A great I wish to say further, that while during the names I find among the corporators in the many names of big men are published in big last five years i have voted for almost all works act passed in 1864 the present president of this letters on the bills as having been invited and of national improvement, stretching from Maine road, John Gregory Smith, who represents this as being expected to attend the meeting. into the Territories, I have come to the con- road not as a lobbyist and presenter of claims (Laughter. )

clusion that before we impose upon our people | before this Congress. If members will turn to the act of incorpo. any heavier taxation for carrying on works of Mr. WENTWORTH. Does he know that he ration of 1864, they will find the names of these this character, before drawing from the Treas- is president? [Laughter.] corporators. They were not taken, as is often the ury of the United States increased appropria- Mr. BLAINE. Among the incorporators of case, from those who are members of the body tions of money, or pledging the credit of the this road are presidents of two leading railroads passing the legislation, for I find among them | United States to any greater extent, we should, in my own State, one at present one of the The name of but one member of this House.

in a straightforward and honest manner, meet directors of this road-Richard D. Rice and But there is the name of General Grant; and our obligations to the brave soldiers of the Anson P. Morris-two gentlemen for whom I not only his name, but the name of General nation, and pass a bill to equalize the bounties will vouch everywhere. Frémont also. Now, the question I want an- of the men who volunteered in 1861 and 1862. Mr. WENTWORTH. Do they know they swered is, what hara these men done? They Mr. WENTWORTH. Now, Mr. Speaker, are there? [Laughter.] were named in the charter; and if they were I want gentlemen to understand what I am driv- Mr. BLAINE. They know they are there, not willing to comply with the conditions of

ing at.

I want to know whether we are to have and I know they are there. the charter, are they willing to give it up and this Northern Pacific railroad completed or Mr. SHELLABARGER. I ask the gentlelet others come in and take the charter? Have I do not want to be personally offensive, man to yield to me. they ever organized under that charter? My || because I am now speaking in the dark; and Mr. WENTWORTH. I yield to my friend friend from Ohio, [.Ir. Bingua,] whose name " in the night,

"' it is said, “all cats are grey.? as he always talks sense. I find here, I know will take no offense if I want to know who else are interested in this Mr. SHELLABARGER. I want to put a ask him if he can give us any information upon road; and I would like to know, if my friend question to my friend from Vermont as he the subject.

from Vermont can tell me, whether they have seems to be familiar with the history of this Mr. BINGHAM. I can only say, in reply to ever paid in anything.

corporation. A statement was made to me by the gentleman from Illinois. [Wr. WESTWORTH,]

Mr: WOODBRIDGE. I ain not able, Mr. a gentleman of eminently good character, forthat I learned this morning for the first time Speaker, to give the gentleman the information merly a member of this House, that the fact that my name was inserted in this statute. I he requires. I have had no personal connec- might be known. He was a stockholderin this was not a member of the last Congress, and was tion with this road. But I am assured by gen- company, I understand, and is perfectly familiar never consulted upon the subject. I have no tlemen in whom I have the utmost confidence || with the facts. I understood he wanted the information upon the subject, and therefore can that this enterprise is undertaken in good faith, | fact known, although he did not want his name in part none to the gentleman from Illinois. and it is to be controlled by one of the most connected with the matter. I know nothing

Xir. WENTWORTH. Now, I have proved intelligent, influential, and wealthy men in my about it personally. His statement was this: exactly what I wanted to prove, that a large own or any other portion of the country. that the gentlemen who had been instrumental number of respectable men are in the same Mr. WENTWORTH. Now, Mr. Speaker, || and at considerable expense in getting this act position as the gentleman from Ohio, and do was at one time the mayor of a city; and we passed by the Thirty-Eighth Congress, and who not know that their names have been used in sometimes arrested men for playing what was are connected with it as stockholders, made this act as corporators. But there are some called the confidence game.'' (Laughter.] a contract to transfer their interest; that it was persons who know their names are here; there Now, sir, I shall not vote this number of to be put in writing, but it was wholly or partly are some who are running this machine under millions out of the Treasury in any generous | repudiated; that the contract provided for the the names of these distinguished men. Now, confidence. I know and have proved to this payment of some one hundred and fifty thouwho are they? They ask this House to give House by my friend from Ohio [Mr. BINGHAM) | sand dollars; and that now these parties having them fifty or sixty million dollars. Yet one there is at least one man who does not know | purchased the franchise, virtually repudiated of the men who are named in the act as corpo- | anything about it. I believe there are nine out their engagements, and come into Congress for rators did not know that his name was there. of ten who are in the same position. Here is the purpose of getting these large additional Still, because I say this it is intimated that I nearly a page of names of men from different values to this franchise obtained under such had better look out or I shall be set down as States in the Union.

circumstances. That is the statement. About an enemy to my own section of conntry and But where is the report? I call the atten. the truth of it I know nothing in the world. an enemy to the Northern Pacific railroad. tion of the House to the fact that we have not Mr. DELANO. Allow me to say in this

Now, I want to know who are really the a single report to guide us. Suppose a man connection that I have substantially the same corporators in this company--who are the has to defend himself for supporting this meas- information from another source. active men. I want to know who is the pres- ure; suppose he makes a statement and one in Mr. WOODBRIDGE. I will answer that ident of this road, and I want to know how near the crowd alleges that it is false, what can he question so far as I know, and I am known he lives to the Canada line. Can anybody tell do? Give us the documents; that will settle well enough in this House, I hope, to have it who the president of this road is? I would the matter. It is the question of veracity. That believed; I would not lend myself or my inlike to have an answer, if anybody can give it man will have to write here, “My dear friend, fluence in any respect to get through an officially. I do not want any guess-work. be so kind as to send me the report of the improper, unjust, or dishonest claim.

Mr. WOODBRIDGE. I can inform the Northern Pacific Railroad Company, as I am Mr. WÉNTWORTH. Name the prominent gentleman who is the president of this road. seriously attacked on the subject." We will railroad men. He is a personal friend and an old acquaint- have to reply there is no report. It is, as has

Mro. ADODBRIDGE. Mr. Onslow Stearns, ance of mine, formerly Governor of my State- been remarked, voting money out of the Treas- a prominent railroad man in New England, a a gentleman for whose integrity and ability I ury without a report.

man who stands as high as Mr. Ogden of the will vouch here and elsewhere. His name is Now, when you see a man with eyes which | gentleman's own district, who has done more John Gregory Smith. He is one of the rail- cannot bear light you may conclude they are to build up and develop the railroad system of road men of Vermont, operating one of the weak. If men shun light it is because they the West than any other man in his district. inost extensive railroads in New England; and cannot bear it. (Laughter.] I am one of the

Mr. WENTWORTH. Gentlemen interrupt he desires the protection of these interests, so individuals who want light. I want to know me and keep going off on side issues. What I that this road to the Pacific may go through whether I am to take this or not.

Give me

want is the facts. All these big men are not our own country, contributing to its wealth and responsible railroad men, take out the names in the bill. [Laughter.] prosperity, instead of going through her Bri- of politicians; take out the names of claim Mr. WOODBRIDGÉ. Yes, sir, they are. iann Majesty's dominious in Canada, where agents; give me responsible railroad men, Mr. WENTWORTH. Where is the proof the road must go unless this company can get one from each State, and I will vote for this of it? Why do not they tell me the names of soine aid from Congress.

bil. I will do anything to get a fair and the officers of the company? Mr. WHALEY. I ask the gentleman from ll honest Pacific railroad.

Mr. WOODBRIDGE. 'I know some of the


officers of the company who are here; and I Lands. That was the committee that origi- Mr. PRICE. The gentleman is the best know what they are here for.

nated these measures,

that started the prece- know-nothing I ever saw. [Laughter.] Mr. WENTWORTH. They are here for dent of all these land grants—the Illinois Cen- Mr. WENTWORTH. I do not profess to money.

tral railroad. Had this gone to that commit- | know anything that I am not certain of, and Mr. WOODBRIDGE. The gentleman is a tee they would have made it conform to prior which I am not willing to put my name to. I little nervous.. I intend to give my views on grants, and they would not have made this sup- never knew so big a lot of know-nothings as this question; but if it will answer the purpose plemental bill interfere with the original bill. these men are who come here to get money of the gentleman as well, I am willing to an. Here is what alarms me and my constituents. out of our Treasury. swer his question now,

I have been anxious, and am still, that the Now, I ask the gentleman from Iowa why he Mr. WENTWORTH. My object was to stir right sort of a bill should pass, and I say now, objects to allowing this bill to go to the Comup a little inquiry on this subject. But I start that when this bill shall be made to conform to mittee on Public Lands. upon this basis: that one of the worst things in the usual precedent in the case I shall probably Mr. PRICE. It affords me a great deal of the present time is the departure from the old be as warm a supporter of it as there is in the satisfaction to answer the gentleman. It is safe precedent by allowing bills to pass without House. But I want it to go through the usual simply and entirely because there is not an any kind of report. Nine tenths of the mem- form. I want it to be properly discussed. I ounce nor an inch of land in the bill, any way bers do not know what they are doing when want this supplemental bill to be compared | you measure it or weigh it. they are voting upon such bills. It is com with the original bill.

Mr. WENTWORTH. Then, if there is no mitting political suicide; for when members are Look at the sixth section of this bill:

land in the bill, there is money; for they must called to account at home for the votes they

Sec, 6. And be it further enacted, That the said

have something. And if there is money, the have given they have nothing to defend them- company inay from time to time alter and change bill ought to go to the Committee of Ways and selves with. the location of its line whenever such change will

Means, of which I am a member. Let it go the better carry out the purposes set forth in the act Suppose, for instance, I had voted for this of incorporation, by filing in the office of the Sec

to that committee, and I will sign any report bill on the strength of the name of my friend retary of the Interior a description of the new line I

may bring in. from Ohio [Mr. BINGHAM] being in it.We all adopted.

Mr. FARNSWORTH. With the permission know him and what he has done for his country. Now, we are not permitted to know the

of my colleague, [Mr. WENTWORTH,]I

wonld like What sort of a defense would that be before intentions of these men. They have not sub

to ask the gentleman from Iowa (Mr. PRICE] my constituents if I should be called on to mitted their by-laws. I have been a director

a question. I am informed that some of the explain it, say, four days before election? Il of railroads and we have had to have certain by

present officers of this road, under the new would telegraph perhaps to my friend and he laws and certain minutes ; and when we under

régime, are residents of Canada. Is that so? would send word back that he did not know took to negotiate a loan, or to do this, that, or Mr. PRICE. If that is so I am not aware anything about it. (Laughter.]

the other thing, we sent out extracts certified of it. And I will take occasion to say, in this Mr. PRICE. I would ask the gentleman | by proper authority from our minutes as well connection, that although that might bly whether he does believe that in such a dark as from our by-laws. But here we have no

be true, even if it be so, I will say to the gentlehour of trial, when his political enemies were information on that subject in regard to this

man from Illinois, [Mr. FarxSWORTH,) and to seeking to oust him from his place, he would company, and I, who represent the largest all others, that this Government pays no money be protected by the ghosts of the soldiers with congressional district in the United States, am

to anybody until they have first expended their one arm and one log who would come to his entirely uninformed on the subject.

own money to build this road. That is a point (Laughter.]

Mr. PRICE. I would ask the gentleman in this case which I do not wish this House to Mr. WENTWORTH. I know this, that if whether, in all his exploration of the West in forget. I do not know, nor do I believe, that I have right on my side God will support me. connection with railroad companies, he ever

any of the directors of this road are residents [Laughter.]

knew a railroad company that did not have of Canada. But, Mr. Speaker, how long is it since a bill the privilege of varying their line. And if Mr. WENTWORTH. There it is again ; it was offered to give some poor soldier eight he will look at this bill he will find that it pro- is "know-nothing all around. [Laughter.] dollars a month, and somebody called out for vides that it shall not go further south than

Nobody knows anything except the men who the report? “Where is the report in that case?'' the forty-fifth parallel.

want this money. "Let us have.the report. Now only look at

Mr. WENTWORTH. But they may go as Then there is the little joker: again; ' now this bill. The joke of it is that you yourselves far north as they please.

you see it, and now you don't see it." [Great do not know how much money you are to give. Mr. PRICE. They will not go into the

laughter.] Here is land, and there is money. You not only give it without any report, but British possessions.

When you say anything about this bill they say you cannot tell how much you give.

Mr. WENTWORTH. I object to

any mem

"there is no land in it;' and when you refer Now, here is a nice thing. But the people | ber in this House or any one else coming and them to that bill they say “there is no money at the West understand these things. Some whispering and telling this man and the other in it." eastern man must have drawn this. When what will be done. It will not defend me before Mr. PRICE. That other bill was passed two some of our Yankee friends first came out there my constituents nor save them from the results

years ago. and advocated it they said it was a good thing. of wrong legislation. I want to know why it Mr. FARNSWORTH. If there is no land But it is played out now. Live Suckers and is that we have no information on this sub

in this bill I would ask the gentleman from Iowa Hoosiers know all about this, and what it means. ject, and why we are not allowed to have any- [Mr. PRICE] what this third section means. I Here is your original bill and charter. Certain thing official upon it.

will read it: things are to transpire when the road is com- But the gentleman from Iowa asks me a ques

Sec. 3, And be it further enacted. That the patents menced. Now, here comes in that dangerous || tion, if I do not want to know that railroad com- for or lists of land granted to this company shall conthing, the amendment to the original bill, and panies are privileged to swing their line. I do

vey the fee-simple of said lands to said company in that is to define what commences the road. not think that is a proper way to get a job

the most full and complete manner, and that none

of the lands granted to said company shall be subject Now, if any of you do not know when the through this House.

to any general or local tax, for any purpose whatever, road is commenced, here is the law of Congress, Mr. PRICE. Did the gentleman ever know

till after two years from date of said conveyance. a precedent to be quoted on us hereafter, an act a land grant of any other character?

Now, if there is no land in this bill, what of the Thirty-Ninth Congress:

Mr. WENTWORTH. I will state to the gen. does that section mean? Sec.5. And be it further enacted, That the commence- tleman this: that is just what I am complain- Mr. PRICE. I suppose the gentleman ment of the survey of the railroad and telegraph line in good faith shall be deemed and considered to be

ing about. I say that no individual in this wants me to answer that question, and yet I the commencement of the work within the meaning House has the right to get up here and make can hardly think he does. He pretends to be and intent of the act of incorporation.

an official communication of this kind. I say a lawyer, and for aught I know he is a very I heard a man once say that he did not care this bill should go to the Committee on Public good one. Does he not know the difference much what they called him if they did not im- Lands, so they may bring forward their report between granting land to a company and carpugn his good sense. [Laughter.] Now, I do and put their names to it. And if the gentle- rying out the provisions of a grant of land think that this is an insult to the good sense of man will move that I be added to the Commit- long since made? There is no grant of land this House, to make us define that to be the tee on Public Lands, I will agree to state what in this bill, but only provisions for carrying commencement of the road. But in order that I know, and put my name to it.

out a former grant to this company upon their members of Congress might not know anything Now, I am seriously afraid, and my constit- complying with certain conditions. about it we have had an evening session and uents are afraid, that it is the intention, if this Mr. WENTWORTH. Now, Mr. Speaker, had the previous question moved in the night. bill shall pass through Congress, to carry this the gentleman stated that this had nothing to Everything was to be hurried through without road, under the sixth section of the bill, into do with public lands. I asked him why he any chance to consider the matter, and we were the British Provinces, and bring it around so objected to this bili going to the Committee on to decide when this road was to be commenced- as to communicate with the Grand Trunk road Public Lands, and his answer was that it conhow? Why, “within the meaning and intent at Portland, Maine, and make this a great tained nothing in relation to public lands. Now, of the act of incorporation.” Now, it was not Pacific feeder for that road.

as the gentleman admits that it does relate to. supposed in that hour's time that we should Mr. PRICE. I will ask the gentleman from public lands, I want to know whether he still run back to the library-I do not know but Illinois if he does not know, as well as he knows objects to the proposition to refer the bill to the what it is locked at night-and get this act of he has an existence, that this road cannot by Committee on Public Lands. incorporation.

any possible means go into the British Proy- Mr. PRICE. I do not admit any such ing. But I want to say that the drift of my argu. inces.

The bill does not contain the grant of an inch ment now is to show that this bill should have Mr. WENTWORTH. I do not know any of land; and any gentleman who will read it been referred to the Committee on Public such thing; neither does anybody else know it. must see that it does not.

Mr. WENTWORTH. Does the gentleman Mr. HENDERSON. I will yield for a time before we should ever have the road conmean the bill or the charter ? question.

structed. I say, deliver us from all such friends! Mr. PRICE. I mean the bill.

Mr. BURLEIGH. I have before me a map I could not help being surprised at the anxiety Mr. WENTWORTH. Well, this is only of the country through which this railroad is to wbich he manifested to have this bill referred another illustration of “now you see it, and pass; and I ask the chairman of the commit- to the Committee on Public Lands. I could now you don't." (Laughter.] tee whether he can tell us the character of the

not help being surprised that other men should Now, Mr. Speaker, I think this is one of the land along the line of the road from the west- have an anxiety that this bill should be referred most important bills coming before the House ern boundary of Minnesota to the Bear's Paw to the Committee on Public Lands, especially this session. There is not an individual in this mountains-a distance of seven hundred miles. when it is well known that the land has already House who will go further than I will to secure The remarks of the gentleman, as made a short been donated to this company. This bill does the object which this bill professes to seek. time ago, conveyed, as I understood them, the not propose to donate any lands. Then, why But before I vote to give away this large amount | idea that this is a beautiful country, and under | send it to that committee? It must be simply of money, I must know how it is to be expended, the operations of this railroad will be made to for the purpose of defeating the bill. and who is to have charge of the enterprise. bud and blossom like the rose." I wish to We know very well that delay often defeats I know that men when they get into these cor- know whether I understood the gentleman a measure, and that referring a bill has a tendporations very often “ water the stock, sell correctly.

ency to destroy it. I see no reason why any out at an advance, and some irresponsible per- Mr. PRICE. That region, I understand, is gentleman should ask this bill should go to the sons come in as stockholders. I want to know a tolerably fair country; but I said nothing Committee on Public Lands unless it may be what responsible men are going into this enter- definitely with reference to the character of ultimately to defeat it. prise. I want to know something about their the country, because my knowledge of it, like If the bill asked for a grant of lands perhaps organization; I want to know the history of the knowledge of almost every other member, it would be just and necessary to send it to the the matter. I want to have something in the || is derived simply from the examinations and Committee on Public Lands; but the lands shape of official documents. I would like to reports which have been made. I presume have already been disposed of for eighteen have a report from the Committee on Public that in the course of the discussion information months or two years. I see, therefore, not the Lands, to whom I think this bill should be as to the character of that country will be smallest propriety in the reference of the bill referred. I move, therefore, that the bill be developed.

as suggested. referred to the Committee on Publio Lands. Mr. BURLEIGH. I want to ask one more Mr. Speaker, there has been a good deal of I shall not call for the previous question ; for | question.

interest manifested as to the haste and hurry I hope that every member who desires to speak · Mr. HENDERSON. I believe I must de- we are in in reference to this bill. Why should on this subject will be allowed to do so. cline to yield. The gentleman asks a question we be in such haste? Why should we be in a

Mr. HENDERSON obtained the floor. that can only be answered in a speech, and not hurry? The reason is this: men are ready to

Mr. MORRILL. Will the gentleman from in a minute. To tell the character of the land go to work, hundreds and thousands of dollars Oregon (Mr. HendeRSON) yield to me a mo- through which this road will pass would require are ready to be invested in labor upon this ment that I may report a bill from the Coman hour.

road. But the company are not prepared to mittee of Ways and Means?

Mr. BURLEIGH. This road runs through go to work until this bill shall pass. If we Mr. HENDERSON. I will do so.

the Territory which I have the honor to repre- || delay any longer it will be too late to go to

sent on this floor. Now, during the month of work this summer. INTERNAL REVENUE.

It must be passed soon or March last, when an appropriation was pend- the work will be still further delayed. A few Mr. MORRILL, by unanimous consent, re- ing of $15,000 for surveying the lands in that weeks of delay will defeat the measure at least ported from the Committee of Ways and Means Territory, the gentleman opposed it on the for twelve months. It is important, then, that à bill to amend an act entitled “An act to pro- ground that the lands were not worth survey- a bill of such magnitude and in which so many vide internal revenue to support the Govern

ing. I ask the gentleman whether he takes interests are involved should be passed immement, to pay interest on the public debt, and that view now or whether he takes another | diately. It is necessary for the purpose of for other purposes," approved June 30, 1864, view.

being able to send out the proper men that the and acts ainendatory thereof; which was read Mr. PRICE. This is outside of that ques- work may be commenced this year. a first and second time, and ordered to be tion.

It is said these lands are given away. I want printed.

I will state, for the information of the House, to devote a portion of my time to that point. Mr. MORRILL. I desire that this bill shall \ that the Committee on the Pacific Railroad I deny that the public lands are being given be referred to the Committee of the Whole on have now under consideration a general law away. There is no donation of the public lands the state of the Union, and that it be made a

making the railroad companies to which lands in it at all. There is a provisional transfer, or special order. I am willing to leave it to mem- are granted pay every dollar of the cost of I might say sale, of lands, but no donation. bers of the House to say what time will be most surveying.

The Government has millions of acres of land convenient for its consideration.

Mr. BURLEIGH. I want to know why the lying there that have been lying there for thonMr. WASHBURNE, of Illinois. I suggest I gentleman has changed his view in regard to

sands of years, and which have been of no to the gentleman from Vermont that he leave

these lands. the time indefinite for the present. That can

benefit to anybody. And I say that without

Mr. HENDERSON. I cannot yield any the construction of this road they would conbe fixed hereafter. further.

tinue to be of no benefit to anybody. GentleThe SPEAKER. There are no special or

Now, Mr. Speaker, I think the subject under men talk about a great sacrifice of land; milders in the Committee of the Whole on the consideration is perhaps of more importance | lions of acres given away to speculating comstate of the Union except the Indian appro

than any which has come before the present panies! Sir, I deny the truth of any such idea priation bill, which the chairman of the Com

session of Congress. This measure is not only of its being a donation. Let us illustrate this mittee on Appropriations has stated he is not a matter of sectional interest, but of interest | point by plain figures. Suppose my friend ready to go on with.

to all the people of the United States. It here on the left [Xr. WASHBURNE, of Illinois] Mr. MORRILL. I suppose that the country is a matter, sir, of national importance. It owns a thousand acres of land lying out on the is desirous to have as early action as possible is not of slight moment. It affects the wel- || commons, unfenced and unimproved, grown on this bill; and as it will take several days fare of this country to an extent with which | up with briers, and which has become the den to have the bill printed, I would suggest that it nothing else which has been presented thus far of wild beasts; that land does him no good, be made the special order for Monday week. for the consideration of this body will compare. and it does no one else any good.

Mr. WILSON, of Iowa. We had better fix Before proceeding to remark furtherin regard Now, suppose that a gentleman should make an earlier day.

to this road I will say that the gentleman from a proposition to him of this kind, “If you will Mr. MORRILL. I move, then, that the bill Illinois (Mr. Wentworth) is known to be a give me half the land I will fence the whole of be referred to the Committee of the Whole on man of great wit, and hence his vast display || it, I will sink a well so as to provide water, the state of the Union, and be made a special || of wit and eloquence to-day. But, sir, I con- and clear off the brush so as to make your part order for to-morrow week immediately after || fess I fail to see any argument or reason in of it profitable to you." He accedes to the the morning hour, and from day to day until what he has uttered. In my opinion he is on | proposition, the bargain is completed, and this disposed of.

both sides of the question. At the outset he land becomes worth to him, perhaps, five hunThe motion was agreed to.

appeared to be opposed to the road, but after dred or one thousand dollars a year. Then Mr. MORRILL. As most of the members | ward he appeared to be in favor of it. I could || another man comes and says to him, in the spirit will, I presume, desire a larger number of not help thinking of a class of politicians on in which gentlemen speak here, and asks, copies of this bill than the regular number, I the Pacific coast who have been in favor all the "Why did you give away that rich and producmove that ten thousand extra copies be printed | time of the Union, who have been in favor of tive land ?" I say that it was a fair bargain and in pamphlet form.

the Government of the United States, but who sale, and when the individual complied with The SPEAKER. That motion will be re

at the same time always laughed and cheered the terms of the proposition, he held it as honferred, under the law, to the Committee on when they heard that the rebels had got the | estly as if he had paid $1,000 for it. Printing advantage in any conflict.

Now, let me say in regard to this donation So the witty points that he made were of land to the road that the land does not go to NORTHERN PACIFIC RAILROAD-AGAIN.

cheered and laughed at by those who were the company until the road is built, and when Mr. BURLEIGH. I ask the gentleman opposed to the road. The enemies of the road the road is built the value of the lands retained from Oregon (Mr. Henderson] to yield to me were decidedly tickled and amused at the wit | by the Government will be increased at least that I may ask the chairman of the Pacific he exhibited. I confess that if all tbe friends of one hundred-fold. I ask any man to say whether Railroad Committee (Mr. Price] a question. the road were like himself, it would be a long Il that is a gift. If the company builds the road,

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