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which passed that body, the number is eighty, stead of ten lieutenant colonels, only eight || in kind, which is $417. Taking that out, and or seven officers less than the bill recommended lieutenant colonels; that it gives you instead it will leave him $4,213 81.

And I say every by those generals.

of fifteen majors, sixteen inajors-one more portion of the pay furnished to the gentleman, Mr. SCHENCK. Will the gentleman, allow than is provided for in the House bill; and and upon which he has based his calculations, me to ask upon what authority he states that that it gives you forty-eight captains instead

is utterly wrong: those generals recommended eighty-seven? of forty-four captains.

Mr. THAYER. Does the gentleman mean Mr. THAYER. I state it on the authority The pay of the four colonels provided for by to deny that $211 per month is the pay allowed of a letter which I hold in my hand written by the Senate bill at $211 per month amounts to by law to a colonel ? the chairman of the Military Committee of the $844; the pay of eight lieutenant colonels at Mr. SCHENCK. What is called " Senate.

$187 a month to $1,496; the pay of sixteen proper" is one thing; the actual pay and Mr. SCHENCK. I state on the authority majors at $163 a month to $2,608 ; and allowances is another and quite a different of the bill which I hold in my hand that it is pay of forty-eight captains at $129 50 per thing. not so.

month to $6,216. The aggregate monthly Mr. THAYER. The “pay proper' is what Mr. THAYER. Then the issue is between expense, therefore, of the officers called for I mean. the two chairmen, and I shall not undertake to by the substitute I have offered amounts to Mr. SCHENCK. That is a small matter. settle the difference between them.

$11,164, being exactly $115 less per month And a colonel on service in the quartermaster's Mr. SCHENCK. No, sir, the issue is be- than the expense under the House bill, al- department gets more than a colonel of infantry tween the chairman of the Committee on Mili- though the substitute provides for one officer on duty elsewhere, for he draws pay as a colonel tary Affairs of the Senate, I insist, and his own

The annual difference between the two of cavalry. He is allowed commutation for two bill which I hold in my hand.

propositions is, therefore, $1,380 in favor of servants at thirty-two dollars a month or $384 Mr. THAYER. There is no issue between the substitute which has in it one more quarter- a year; clothing for two servants, thirteen dolthe Senate bill No. 67, and the statement which master than is provided for in the House bill. lars a month or $156 a year; subsistence for I have made. The statement in the letter Now, if there is any mistake about this, I three hundred and sixty-five days at six rations accords with Senate bill No. 67, which was Mr. invite the attention of the chairman of the Com. a day for himself, and two rations a day for serWilson's bill, and the gentleman is incorrect mittee on Military Affairs to this calculation, || vants, two thousand nine hundred and twenty in undertaking to deny that it is so. If there | and ask him to point out, if it is possible for rations, or $876 a year. He is also allowed is an issue between the gentleman from Ohio him to do so, wherein this calculation is erro- forage in kind for two horses, which, at the and the chairman of the Military Committee

I state without any apprehension of present estimate at the quartermaster's departof the Senate, I have nothing to do with that. denial that the result is as I state it.

ment, will amount to $417 a year. And then I shall not undertake to settle the differences The gentleman made a great display on Fri- he is allowed as commutation for fuel $397 81 between the two committees of the respective day last in a comparison which he instituted

a year.

And he is also allowed for quarters, Houses any more than I shall undertake to between my proposition and his own bill, and which in Washington at the rate of eighteen settle the differences which notoriously exist in he gave the impression to this House that the dollars a room per month, while elsewhere it the gentleman's own committee.

That is a

former created a more numerous and expensive | is nine dollars a room, except in New York matter which I leave to him to adjust. I am organization than his own bill; instead of which, | where it is twelve dollars, the sum of $1,080 now engaged in pointing out to the House the in point of fact, it now appears by figures that a year, making in all $4,450 81 a year. Then fact that in the Senate bill approved by the the former, although it provides for one more there is the difference between a colonel of major generals who had these subjects under l.quartermaster than the gentleman's bill, is || infantry and a colonel of cavalry, $180; makconsideration, the number of officers proposed | cheaper than his bill by $1,380 per annum. ing the whole pay and allowances of a colonel for the quartermaster's staff was eighty-seven, So much for that. I think I have disposed of of cavalry in the quartermaster's department that in the bill now before the House the the argument which rests upon the assertion | $4,630 81. From this may be deducted fornumber is seventy-six, and that in the sub- that the substitute proposes any expense on the age, which is in kind, while all the rest is in stitute for the section which I offered it is part of the Government exceeding that con- money, S417. And to be very exact about it, seventy-seven. So that the House will

per- iemplated by the bill of the gentleman from that will give the amount of money paid to ceive that the number of officers embraced in || Ohio.

a colonel in the quartermaster's department the Quartermaster General's staff by the bill Mr. PAINE. Will the gentleman from as $4,213 81 a year. Now, I am stating some which passed the Senate, No. 138, and which is | Pennsylvania allow me to inquire whether in things here which have not been furnished to the same as my substitute, excepting that in his estimate of the comparative cost of the the gentlenian from Pennsylvania [Mr. Thaythe latter the three chief assistant quartermas. quartermaster's department, as provided in the ER] upon which to base his calculations. ters are omitted is seven fewer than was con- Senate bill and in the bill now reported by the Mr. THAYER. If the gentleman's furnitained in the Senate bill 67, which was ap- committee, he has allowed for the three brig- ture is as good as mine he will have no reason proved by the generals who had this matter adier generals in that department?

to complain of its quality. under advisement.

Mr. THAYER. No, sir.

Mr. SCHENCK. Mine is from the pay Now, sir, from the remarks that were made Mr. PAINE. Well, he has spoken of the || department. by the chairman of the Committee on Military bill which he has been comparing with the Mr. THAYER. I am much obliged to the Affairs when this bill was last under considera- House bill as the Senate bill. I ask him if gentleman for the statement he has made, for tion, one might be led to suppose that the substi- that bill does not provide for three brigadier || he has furnished me with an additional argutute which I have offered for this section, which generals.

ment against his bill. He says that I have not is the Senate section with the alterations that I Mr. THAYER. I will answer the gentle- || included in my calculations the allowances to have adverted to provides for a larger and more The bill as it passed the Senate did so these officers; and he speaks of the large allowexpensive staff than that which is recommended provide, as I have repeatedly said, but I hope ances made to these colonels and lieutenant by the Military Committee of this House. I the gentleman will now understand that in the colonels. Have I not told the House, and does wish, by a very few figures, to point out the substitute which I have offered, I struck out not the House perceive, that the gentleman's total incorrectness of any such representation. the three chief assistant quartermasters, who bill provides for six colonels, while my substiNow, it will be perceived by any gentleman are brigadiers.

tute proposes only four colonels? Tlie gentlewho will take the trouble to analyze these two Mr. PAINE. Will the gentleman permit man's bill provides for ten lieutenant colonels, bills- I mean Senate bill No. 138, which passed me to ask whether he is not comparing the while my substitute proposes only eight lieuthat body, and the bill now before the House- section of the bill now before the House with tenant colonels. that although by the Senate bill, with the three his own section rather than with the section Mr. SCHENCK. The gentleman will not chief assistant quartermasters left out, as in of the bill which passed the Senate?

be so much obliged for the argument he says I my substitute, there is one more quartermaster Mr. THAYER. When I speak of the Sen- || have furnished him if he will look at the lower in the department than is provided for in the ate provision upon this subject, I speak of the grades of majors and captains. The allowHouse bill, yet the expense of the number pro- substitute which I offered, and which is the ances made to the lower grades are greater in vided for is actually less, and I can demon- precise language of the Senate bill, with the proportion to the pay proper than those made strate it to the satisfaction of the House in a provision relating to the three chief assistant to the upper grades. very few moments. quartermasters stricken out.

As, for instance, a major of infantry gets The gentleman's bill provides a staff for this Mr. SCHENCK. As the gentleman from $864 for quarters, and $359 31 for fuel; being department of six colonels, each of whom re- Pennsylvania (Mr. THAYER] is giving us his thirty-eight dollars less than the allowance ceive $211 a month; ten lieutenant colonels | calculations, will he tell us at what he puts the to a colonel for fuel, and a little more than who receive $187 apiece per month; fifteen pay of a colonel ?

one hundred dollars less for quarters. The majors who receive $163 per month apiece; Mr. 'THAYER. At $211 a month.

same thing is found to be true all the way down. and forty-four captains who are paid $129 50 Mr. SCHENCK. What yearly pay and com- The lower you get as to grade the larger in apiece per month. The aggregate monthly | pensation ?

proportion to pay are the allowances. expenditure, therefore, of the gentleman's bill Mr. THAYER. The gentleman will observe | speaking of that for which I have the figures. for quartermasters (I leave out, of course, the that I have made my comparison by the A second lieutenent stationed at Washington Quartermaster General in these calculations, || monthly pay.

gets $2,088 41, some five or six hundred dolbecause he is in both bills,) will be $11,279 Mr. SCHENCK. I undertake to say that | lars more than the amount received by a second per month.

somebody has very greatly imposed upon the lieutenant in the field. Now, if you take the substitute, you will | gentleman. I say that every colonel on duty Mr. THAYER. If the gentleman shall sucfind that, instead of providing for six colonels, here in the quartermaster's department re- ceed in convincing this House that a captain it gives only four colonels; that it gives, in- ceives $4,630 81 a year, including his forage Il gets more in the way of commutation and allow:


I am now,

ances than a colonel or a lieutenant colonel, Mr. CHANLER. I feel much gratified, Mr. We are entitled, the people of the country are
then there will be some force in the remarks Speaker, in being able to unite with the chair- entitled, to more consideration after their losses,
which he has made. But I apprehend that he man of the Committee on Military Affairs in and with the heavy burdens of taxation imposed
will run against very hard facts and figures in his laudable efforts to reduce the organization upon them.
attempting to sustain any such position. Every- of the Army. I understand the gentleman's The period has never existed when a stand-
body knows that the contrary is true, and that motive, as he has asserted, to be one based ing army, so far as fitness of the people to pro-
the higher officers get more by way of allow- upon


establishment. I have no doubt tect themselves is concerned, was less needed ances than the subalterns. The gentleman is, || that this section is fair. It stipulates the man- than at present. The people of the country, in my judgment, very bold in undertaking a ner in which the reduction is to take place. on both sides of the Potomac, are an armed denial of this.

The reduction, however, seems to be not so militia, ready at the first sound of the bugle or Mr. SCHENCK. What I said was that the inach of a consolidation as promotion of offi- of the drum to fall in line, as they have been lower the grade the greater are the allowances cers from the rank they now hold in the Army in face of each other, against the common in proportion to the pay. Register of 1865, promotion from the rank of

enemy: Nr. THAYER. Now, sir, I have pointed major to colonel and lieutenant colonel. For the suppression of insurrection there is out to the House the fact that the amendment Now, the point of issue between the gentle- happily, no need. For protection on our which I have offered as a substitute proposes man from Pennsylvania [Mr. Thayer] and the borders the force we now have is amply sufbut one more officer than the gentleman's bill. gentleman from Ohio [Mr. SCUENCK] seems ficient. And the gentleman on the other side The gentleman's bill provides for seventy-six to be whittled down to the question of two who spoke so eloquently the other day (Mr. quartermasters; the substitute provides for sev. captains of cavalry. The reduction of the HARDING, of Illinois, and took the lead on this enty-seven. And I affirm, with entire confi

armies of the United States is to take this question on the Administration side against a dence in the accuracy of my calcnlation, that form, with an expenditure of $33,000,000 per large standing army, said he would undertake the seventy-seven quartermasters, with the ranks annum to support an organization of seventy- with a division of cavalry and of infantry to hold which are assigned them in the substitute now two regiments. The gentleman from Ohio [Mr. this country in perfect security for all time to before the House, will be less expensive to the || SCHENCK] proposes to change the present or- come. I understood the gentleman to say that, Government than the seventy-six quartermas- | ganization of the Army by simply promoting and I believe he is right. And I hope he will ters provided for in the gentleman's bill. He in the different bureaus different officers from have an opportunity of testing the fact by a may figure all day and he cannot make the the rank of captain. It seems to me to be re- proper reduction of the standing Army. Then contrary appear. The reason is that his bill duced to a point of but little difference to the we will see whether the people of this country increases the number of the higher grades of tax-payers, except as to the increase of officers are not capable of self-government without the officers on the staff. who are promoted.

aid of a military organization of such gigantic Now, sir, a few words more and I have done. The number of officers employed in the proportions-gigantic, not in the case of the The gentleman has proposed this morning an quartermaster's department, as recorded in the late struggle, not in consideration of the armies amendment looking to a reduction of the staff. Årmy Register for 1865, is seventy-eight. The which we have lately had in the field, but giganFor one I am opposed to that reduction. I am number as suggested by the substitute of the tic as compared with what has been required in opposed to it because I do not believe that the gentleman from Pennsylvania is seventy-seven, the past history or by the present condition of present force is too large for an army upon the and the number suggested by the gentleman this country. "In view of the fact that peace present scale. If you desire to organize an from Ohio is seventy-six, a mere reduction of lies at the bottom of our institutions and that army of smaller dimensions than that proposed two in the Army of the United States, in faco | the people are willing at all times to hold in this bill, if you will cut down your Army of all the eloquence of the gentleman from themselves in readiness for the defense of the from fifty thousand to thirty thousand men, or if Ohio. We have spent two whole days in country, standing as the people do to-day, you will to any extent materially reduce its num- regard to the propriety of a reduction in the educated to govern themselves, educated in bers you may diminish the staff. But what I quartermaster's department of two officers military matters by the militia law in every say is, that these distinguished generals, with all holding the rank of captain, while the gentle | State, ready to go to the front at their countheir vast experience and personal knowledge, man proposes an increase in that bureau of try's call, we need, in my humble opinion, no recommended for an army of forty-five thou- the rank of two officers, so that there shall be such gigantic military organization as is prosand men, contemplated by bill No. 67 of the two colonels. In the section now before the | posed by this bill. Senate, eighty-seven quartermasters for the House we have six quartermasters, with the Sir, the defense of this country at this time staff. The number proposed in my substitute rank, pay, and emoluments of a colonel, while does not depend upon your Army. Admit is seventy-seven, being, as I have already sev- in the present organization we have only three. that the threatened invasion of the northeasteral times remarked, the same number pro- That is a reduction ad absurdum. There are ern border may be well founded, that cannot posed in Senate bill No. 138, with the three also ten quartermasters with the rank, pay, be used as a pretext for a large standing army. chief assistants stricken out.

and emoluments of a lieutenant colonel of There is not force enough in the British ProvNow, sir, I am willing to stand upon the cavalry. That is in the pending section of inces to call for such an army as this. A war opinions of those distinguished military offi- the bill offered by the gentleman from Ohio. with Great Britain, if it should ever come,

I say that if in their judgment a staff The lieutenant colonels in the present organi- would have to be waged mainly at sea. of eighty-seven officers in the Quartermaster zation are four. There happens to be eleven And I maintain that this system of retrenchGeneral's department was a sufficiently small majors in the present organization and fifteen ment of the Army is in direct contradiction of staff for such an army as was contemplated by in this bill, while the number of captains is the system adopted in regard to the Navy. This Senate bill No. 67, then it is impossible for diminishd.

is a retrenchment whereby officers are prome to conclude that seventy-seven, exactly ten Again, sir, by this bill we have a reëstab- moted, whereby gentlemen are charged with adofficers less, is an immoderate number for a lishment of this bureau whereby all the prece- vancing the interests of their special favorites. bill which contemplates the organization of dents on record in the War Office are changed, || But there is a great favorite of this country an army with, I believe, five thousand more whereby all the routine of that Department is which won for us much honor, and which has men as a minimum, but which, you will bear | threatened with discord and confusion, while | placed our flag as high as it ever floated even in mind, it is possible to expand, under the the whole question of retrenchment is forgotten in the late civil war, and which has never been provisions of the gentleman's bill to, I believe, in the question of promotion.

treated by this body or by this Administration eighty thousand men.

Who are to be benefited by this system? Is with due respect. The knife has been applied Now, sir, why legislate upon a contingency the object of this bill as has been charged here there without scruple and without considerawhich may not exist? If you contemplate a by gentlemen on the Administration side, not tion. I refer, sir, to the Navy. general reduction of the Army, you cannot upon this side of the House? The charge has I do not know why the gentlemen on the properly reduce it piecemeal in this way. This been made specifically and directly that this is a Military Committee should be called upon to is not the way, in my judgment, to begin to personal question. Ifthere were wanted ground state that in the organization of the bureaus of reduce an army. You must make the reduc- or proof, it would be found in this section, un- the Army such an immense force is necessary tion consistent in its details. You must first less refuted by the gentleman from Ohio. Why, to carry it on, while the Navy requires but a ascertain the size of your Army; and then sir, under the plea of a peace establishment, minimum of the same number. That may be when you have concluded upon the extent of should there be promotion of officers in this the secret. Patronage may underlie it all. It the reduction you may set yourself to work to department unless called for? Where is the may be that the Army organization is a better reduce all the several staff corps proportion. | necessity? You reduce the Army from its pres- machine for political purposes than the Navy ally. I do not find that the gentleman pro- ent vast proportion down to seventy-two regi- can be. If so, so much the greater necessity for poses a general reduction of the other staffs or ments, and while reducing it

you promote the retrenchment. I will admit that the necessity à reduction of his proposed force. On the officers left in the organization, and you in- of promotions arises in an inverse proportion, contrary, the gentleman's bill proposes an army crease their salary by their promotion. but it cannot be that political patronage is the for a peace establishment. If the Army should Sir, a standing army may be a necessity; I secret of this promotion. It cannot be that, be reduced at any time in the future, it will be mean a standing army of the size suggested by || using the position of the chairman of the comperfectly competent for Congress to proceed to Lieutenant General Grant and the Secretary of mittee, the gentleman from Ohio [Mr.SchenOK] rearrange the several staff corps, and to adapt War. I do not presume to criticise that neces- has been misled from any personal feelings in them in numbers and details to any reduction sity, but upon the general argument, whether this question. which may be made in the force; but why pro- we should or should not have a large standing [Here the hammer fell.] vide for a reduction of the staff corps when you army, I stand arrayed against any system which Mr. PAINE.. As I understand the gentledo not provide for a reduction of the Army? leaves ns incumbered with the expense of man from Pennsylvania, [Mr. Thayer,] whose [Here the hammer fell.]

$33,000,000 per annum for that organization. Il amendment we are now considering, and as I


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believe the House understood him, he bases the proposition of the House committee. But, officers at this time and turn them adrift. But his proposition upon the supposed approval of leaving out of view the mere question of no- the proposition of the committee is, that as the generals whose advice has been brought menclature, it appears to me to be very plain vacancies occur by death, resignation, or otherbefore both Houses. I may have misunder- that the House committee has approximated wise, those vacancies shall not be filled until stood him in this, but I certainly understood vastly nearer to the recommendations of those there has been a reduction of three majors and him to ask the House to adopt his amendment distinguished generals, in the bill which they fourteen captains. because it was in substantial conformity with have introduced, and which is now ore the Mr. PAINE. I would ask the gentleman the advice of those generals. I desire now to House, than the distinguished Representative from Indiana (Mr. FARQUHAR] if he does not ask him whether his amendment comes nearer from Pennsylvania has done in the amendment find in the present business of this department, to the form of the recommendation of those which he offered.

resulting from the war, a necessity for the teingenerals to whom he alludes.

I will now yield to the gentleman from New porary continuance of the present number of Mr. THAYER. I think the substitute is York [Mr. Conkling) for his question. officers in the department. much nearer ; and if the gentleman will allow Mr. CONKLING. I understand that the Mr. FARQUHAR. I am obliged to the me I will correct him a little. What I stated effect of the section as it is in the House bill gentleman from Wisconsin [Mr. PAINE] for his was simply this: that the distinguished gen- is to legislate out three assistant quartermas- suggestion; that is true. There is an immediate erals to whom I referred had itcommended ters general, four deputies quartermasters gen- and present necessity for retaining the officers Senate bill No. 67, and that that provided for eral, and forty-six assistant quartermasters ; now on duty, and it is only proposed that in & staff in the quartermaster's departinent of making in all lifty-three officers legislated out the case of vacancies by death, resignation, or eighty-seven officers, whereas the substitute of the Quartermaster General's Office. I wish otherwise, no appointments to fill such vacandoes not call for as many by ten; and I used to inquire of the gentleman from Wisconsin cies shall be made until the number of majors that as an argument with which to rebuke the whether the information I have thus received is reduced from fifteen to twelve, and the numargument brought forward by the chairinan of is correct, and if it is, what is the excuse for ber of captains from forty-four to thirty. the committee, [Mr. Schenck,] that the num- this indiscriminate slaughter?

And there is another reason why I favor the ber called for in my substitute was an unneces- Mr. PAINE. In reply to the interrogatory proposition as presented by the committee of sary number. I did not say nor intimate that of the gentleman from New York, I have to the House, in this section. It provides that of the generals had had under consideration my say this: that I believe it to be pretty nearly the original appointments to be made under substitute. The gentleman was mistaken if the unanimous opinion of those members of this this bill, two thirds of the lieutenant colonels he understood anything of that kind. Nor House who have given the question their atten- and majors and all of the captains shall be from did I say that they had considered the Senate tion that the change in the title of one of these volunteer officers who have performed merbill No. 138. If the House will look at Sen- officers would, without some opinion of law to itorious services during the late war; that is, ate bill No. 67, and then look at the gentle | meet the case, or save the officer, abolish that that two thirds of the ten colonels, two thirds man's bill, they will find the greatest dis- office. But, if I understand correctly the pos- of the fifteen majors, and all of the forty-four crepancies. The generals did not recommend ture of this question, as it is now before the captains shall be appointed from officers of the the abolition of the office of assistant quarter- House, there was a proposition introduced by volunteers. master general, as the gentleman's bill does, the chairman of the Committee on Military Mr. THAYER. Will the gentleman allow or of the office of deputy quartermaster gen- Affairs which prevents such an effect.

me to call his attention to the fact that the eral. And as to the number of officers, I wish Mr. SCHENCK. Such a proposition was substitute does the same? to say to the gentleman from Wisconsin, that offered, and was adopted by the House, and it Mr. FARQUHAR. I have not been able they recommend, upon the quartermaster's is a part of the section as it now stands. to see it. All I find in the substitute, which staff, eighty-seven officers, instead of the much Mr. CONKLING. Shall we understand, is section thirteen of the Senate bill, is that smaller number provided for in the substitute. then, that as the section now stands, it does || all vacancies thereby created in the grades of Mr. PAINE resumed the floor. not legislate out anybody?

assistant quartermasters shall be filled by Mr. CONKLING. I want, at some time or Mr. SCHENCK. With the permission of selection from among the persons who have other, a little information, and I do not know the House, I will ask for the reading of the rendered efficient and meritorious services as any gentleman who would be better able to give section as it was amended this morning. It assistant quartermasters of volunteers during it to me than the gentleman from Wisconsin. legislates nobody out; it is particularly pro- || the war. I see no more than that. I ask him, therefore, to indicate some point vided that it shall not affect the title to their Mr. THAYER. There can be no other in his remarks when it will be not inconyen- offices of all of these men.

vacancies. ient to him that I ask him a question or two. Mr. CONKLING. Is that true of all of them? Mr. FARQUHAR. I have been informed

Mr. PAINE. I will do so with pleasure. Mr. SCHENCK. It is true of all of them. that there are other vacancies to arise besides

Mr. Speaker, I hold in my hand the bill now Mr. FARQUHAR. I rise to advocate the the three assistant quartermasters general before the House reported by the Committee section proposed by the Military Committee in there referred to. If there are not, then in on Military Affairs. I also hold in my hand preference to the amendment offered by the that respect the section of the committee's Senate bill No. 67, which, as I now understand, gentleman from Pennsylvania, (Mr. Tuayer.] bill might have no advantage over the substithe gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. THAYER] I concede that the figures presented by that gen- tute. Still I prefer the section as reported embodies substantially the recommendations of tleman give the advantage to the section as pro- by the committee. the generals.

posed in the bill from the Senate. That, how. Mr. SCHENCK. The Senate bill everyI find that in the bill now before us there ever,

I do not understand to be the important where provides that these appointments shall are provided for six quartermasters, with the question involved as between the amendment be made from quartermasters and others who rank' of colonel; in the Senate bill, recom- proposed by the gentleman from Pennsylvania have served during the late war. But the mended by the generals, there are also six and the section in the bill reported from the House committee has preferred to take them quartermasters, of the rank of colonel. I find Committee on Military Affairs of this House. all from our side, and to say that the appointthat in the bill before us there are ten quarter- The main point involved is the matter of ments shall be made from among volunteer masters provided for with the rank of lieutenant economy. The gentleman claims that by his officers who have served in the Army of the colonel; but I find in the Senate bill, No. 67 amendment the saving on the pay proper of United States during the late war. there are twelve officers of that rank provided colonels is $115 per month. Now, the matter Mr. THAYER. Will the gentleman allow for. I find that the bill now before the House of true economy is presented to us by the sec- me, for the sake of accuracy, to call his attenprovides for fifteen majors, while the Senate tion reported by the committee of the House, tion to the concluding language of the substibill, to which the gentleman refers, makes pro- and it consists the fact that there is to be tute, which provides that these positions shall vision for twenty officers of that grade. I find an actual reduction in the oflicers of this staff be filled by selection from among persons who that of captains in this service the bill before department, to be accomplished by refraining have rendered meritorious service as assistant the House provides for forty-four, while in this from filling vacancies as they occur until the quartermasters of volunteers during two years Senate bill, which the gentleman says embodies number of majors has been reduced to three, of the war? the recommendations of the generals, there are and the number of captains fourteen; or a Mr. SCHENCK. Exactly. forty-eight officers of that grade provided for. reduction of seventeen officers in all.

Mr. THAYER. Now, I would like to know Now, it seems to me that if the gentleman Mr. THAYER. Will the gentleman allow where there is any discrimination in favor of has presented an amendment here which re- me to ask him a question ?

the regular Army. duces the number of officers of these several Mr. FARQUHAR. Certainly.

Mr. SCHENCK. I am not speaking about grades below the number provided for in the Mr. THAYER. If it is important that the the regular Army. I am speaking about the bill reported by the committee, he is still fur- number of officers in this department should rebel volunteers and the Union volunteers. ther from following the recommendations of be reduced, then why not favor the reduction We have preferred to require that these officers the generals than the committee itself.

at once? Or if this number be necessary now should have served on our side in the war. It may be true, as the gentleman has said, for an army of this size, how can a less num- That is one difference between the two bills. that the generals have recommended different ber discharge the duties for an army of the Mr. THAYER. That is a very nice critititles for these several grades of officers to same size when vacancies shall have occurred? cism. those the committee of this House have rec- Mr. FARQUHAR. I would not decrease Mr. SCHENCK. It is a somewhat material ommended, and in that respect, so far as the number now for the very reasons suggested | point, it seems to me. the mere nomenclature goes, it may be truo a few moments ago by the interrogatory of the I wish now to call the attention of the House that the amendment offered by the gentleman, gentleman froin New York, [Mr. Conkling.] to the fact that the question now before us is or rather the Senate bill No. 67, is nearer the There is no disposition on the part of this the amendment to the amendment, proposing recommendation of these general officers than House, I think, to reduce the number of these to attach to the substitute of the gentleman


from Pennsylvania the retrenchment in num: a good deal of creeping up as to numbers and NAYS-Messrs. Allison, Ames, Ancona, Baker, ber proposed in the House bill. That is pre- rank; that when the board of officers met here

Banks, Baxter, Beaman, Benjamin, Bingham, Blow,

Boutwell, Bromwell. Broomall, Buckland, Bundy, cisely the retrenchment to which the attention they took this bill No. 67, went over it mainly Reader W. Clarke, Cobb, Deming, Donnelly, Eliot, of the House has been called by the gentleman with reference to the general size of the Army Farquhar, Ferry, Garfield, Grinnell, Hale, Abner c. from Indiana, (Mr. FARQUHAR, ) reducing the and some special provisions and other amend- Harding, Hayes, Henderson, Higby, Holmes, Asahel number of captains and the number of majors,

W. Hubbard, Chester D. Hlubbard, James R. Hubments and suggestions, as, for instance, fifteen bell, Hulburd, Ketcham. Kuykendall, Lalin, Wilso as to make an aggregate deduction of seven- new brigadier generals not agreed to by the liam Lawrence, Longyear, Marston, McClurg. Mcteen from the whole number. And the gentle- House or Senate committee. As to the organ

Kee, McRuer. Mercur, Miller, Morrill, Morris,

Moulton, Newell, Orth, Paine, Patterson, Perham, man from Wisconsin [Mr. PAINE] rightly | ization including the quartermaster's depart- Plants, Price, William II. Randall, Rollins, Rousapprehended the motive of the committee in ment, I mean these general sections, they sim- seau, Schenck, Scofield, Shellabarger, Smith, Stevens, not making that reduction immediate. They | ply pass them by, making no recommendations

Trowbridge, Upson, Ward, Henry D. Washburn, Wil

liam B. Washburn, Welker, and Williains-70. provide that now, while we are winding up the in regard to them.

NOT VOTING – Messrs. Alley, Delos R. Ashley, vast business of the late war, this reduction That is what I undertake to say. I say fur. James M. Ashley, Baldwin, Barker, Bergen, Blaine, shall not take place; but that hereafter, as ther, when the Senate came to bill No. 138

Brandegee, Coroth, Cook, Cullom, Culver, Darling.

Davis, Dawes, Dawson, Delano, Denison, Driggs, Duvacancies occur in these lower grades, the they changed to a considerable extent, even

mont, Eckley, Eggleston, Farnsworth, lIarris, Hart, reduction shall take place. The House is now that section relating to quartermasters, as it Hill, Hogan, Hooper, Hotchkiss, Demas Hubbard, called upon to say whether it will or will not was before that council of military men. When

John H. Hubbard, Edwin N. Hubbell, James Hum

phrey, Ingersoll. Johnson, Jones, Julian, Kasson, sustain the committee in the proposed reduc- the gentleman from Pennsylvania here under- Kelso, Kerr, Le Blond, Lynch, McCullough, McIntion.

takes to introduce his substitute he departs doe, Moorhead, Noell, O'Neill, Phelps, Pike, PomeAs to the substitute of the gentleman, I still further from it. Take his own statement.

roy, Radford, Raymond, Alexander H. Rice, Saw

yer, Sloan, Starr, Stilwell, Strouse, Francis Thomas, desire to make but one or two remarks; for He says this House must not make any reduc. John L. Thomas, Trimble, Van Aernam, Burt Van probably the discussion on this subject has tion, that it must not follow its own committee Horn. Warner, Wentworth, Whaley, Stephen F. Wilalready been protracted to a greater extent than because that committee has departed from

Wir field, and Wright-70. is profitable. First, one word upon the gen- what was recommended by a board of officers,

So the substitute was rejected. eral proposition which the gentleman makes- and in the same breath tells the House this The Clerk read the following sections: and which I think he cannot well have consid- same council recommended eighty-seven, and Sec. 17. And be it further enacted, That the number ered, or he would not have made it—that just | he recommends seventy-six, that is that he of military storekeepers shall hereafter be as many in proportion as you increase the Army, you may depart from the recommendation of these

as shall be required, not exceeding sixteen, who shall

have the rank, pay, and emoluments of captains of must increase its staff corps. I deny it. I say officers, that he may come down from eighty- infantry. that in proportion as you increase an army, seven to seventy-six, but it will not do for the Sec. 18. And be it further enacted, That the provisyou may increase and ought to increase some- Committee on Military Affairs of the House,

ions of the act for the better organization of the quar

termaster's department, approved July 4, 1961, shall what your staff corps, but not in equal ratio. looking over the same matter, to come to the continue in force so far as they do not become obsoYou must increase your line officers in equal same conclusion.

lete and unnecessary upon the disbandment of tho

volunteer forces. ratio. Every gentleman who knows anything Again, in regard to what the Senate has

Sec. 19. And be it further enacted, That the subsistabout a turnpike company or a railroad com- done. The Senate adopts the important feature ence department shall hereafter consist of the numpany or a banking association will understand of three brigadier generals. He abandons that,

ber of officers now authorized by law, namely, one the principle involved here. A railroad com- and yet he quotes the chairman of the Military

commissary general, with the rank, pay, and emolu

ments of a brigadier gcucral; two assistant commispany, with a road one hundred miles long, has Committee of the Senate.

sary generals, with the rank. pay, and emoluments its president, its vice president, its board of I trust this House, whether it has or has not of colonels of cavalry; two commissaries, with the directors, its treasurer, its secretary. If that | faith in its own committee, which has bestowed

rank, pay, and einoluments of lieutenant colonels of

cavally; cight conimissaries, with the rank, pay.and road be extended to the length of two hundred not a little time and attention on this matter, emoluments of majors of cavalry; and sixteen commiles, no increase in the number of managing not only to see how far we can bring down the

missaries, with the rank, pay, and emoluments of oficers of the company is necessarily required, number of these officers now, but in regard to

captains of cavalry. But, after the first appointments

made under the provisions of this section, as vacanalthough a larger force is necessary to do the a future reduction of them to the needs of the cies may occur, reducing the number of officers in the work along the line. So, if you increase the country-I hope, whether they place confidence several grades below that of brigadier general of this capital of a banking association from $500,000 in the committee or not, they will look at these

department, no appointments to fill the same shall

be made until the number of colonels shall be reduced to $1,000,000, you do not need to increase in things themselves, and not let gentlemen lead to one, the number of mujors to five, and the number the saine proportion the number of the gen- them away by what some board of oflicers has of captains to ten. And thereafter the number of offeral supervisory officers—the staff, as it may done or what some chairman of committee in

cers in each of said several grades shall continue to

conform to such reduced numbers. And hereafter no be called. You may need to increase some- another body has thought may be done, gentle- graduate of the United States Military Academy, what your agencies in that direction, but by no tlemen who quote persons outside and in the

being at the time in the Army of the United States,

or having been therein at any time for three years means in proportion to the increase of capital. same breath refuse to consider them as any

next preceding, shall be eligible to appointment as The case is precisely the same with an army. authority.

an officer in the subsistence department. The staff is the general supervisory power- I believe this matter has been sufficiently Mr. WOODBRIDGE. I move to amend the board of directors as it were, in a certain discussed, and I therefore demand the previous section nineteen by striking ont all after the sense, of the Army; and you do not need to

question upon the section and pending amendincrease the staff just in proportion as you

enacting clause and inserting in lieu thereof ments.

the following: increase the rank and file, just as you in- The previous question was seconded and crease the number of regiments, brigades,

That the subsistence department of the Army the main question ordered.

shall hereafter consist of the officers now authorized and divisions. You must increase your line The question recurred on Mr. Schenck's by law, namely, one commissary general of subsistOflicers, your field and company oflicers, in the amendment:

enco, with the rank, pay, and emoluments of a brigsame proportion in which you increase the The House divided; and there were-ayes

adier general; two assistant cominissary generals,

with the rank, pay, and emoluments of colonel of rank and lile; but the staff does not need to 50, noes 12; no quorum voting:

cavalry; two assistant commissary generals, with the be increased except in a comparatively small The SPEAKER ordered tellers; and ap

rank, pay, and emoluments of lieutenant colonel of degree. Hence the remarks of the gentleman | pointed Messrs. GARFIELD and THAYER.

cavalry; eight commissaries, with the rank, pay, and

emoluments of majors of cavalry; and sixteen comimply a very grave mistake in reference to this

The House again divided ; and the tellers missaries, with the rank, pay, and emoluments of matter. reported-ayes 58, noes 35.

captains of cavalry. Now, Mr. Speaker, let me say in reference So the amendment was adopted.

The amendment proposed as a substitute, is to this discrepancy, that within iny experience we have never legislated under such peculiar of Mr. Thayer, as amended.

The question then recurred on the substitute

a section taken from the Senate bill, and in

my judgment is preferable to the one introcircumstances. Instead of being met here

Mr. SCHENCK. If the substitute be voted

duced by the Committee on Military Affairs. with argument, instead of being met with facts, we are met with some shadowy reference to

down the section will be left as reported from In regard to the titles it follows what the comthe committee?

mittee of the House adopted respecting the something that has been done by some gen- The SPEAKER. It will.

Adjutant General's department, and leaves eral officers, or by the chairman of the Com

The House divided; and there were-ayes

the offices, titles, and rank the same as at mittee on Military Affairs of the Senate, who

present. has written a letter, if I understand the gentle

33, noes 38; no quorum voting. man from Pennsylvania correctly, to explain the yeas and nays.

Mr. RANDALL, of Pennsylvania, demanded

I would like to know from the chairman of

the committee if he proposes to introduce an to him what this House ought to do.

amendment to this section similar to that which Mr. THAYER. The gentleman will permit

The yeas and nays were ordered. me to say that I said nothing about that letter

The question was taken; and it was decided

was made to the thirteenth section, relating to until I was asked upon what authority I made in the negative-yeas 44, nays 70, not voting

the Adjutant General's department.

Mr. SCHENCK. Yes, sir. the statement that the general officers to whom 69; as follows:

Mr. WOODBRIDGE. Then the argument I referred had approved a similar proposition

YEAS-Messrs. Anderson, Bidwell, Boyer, Chanto that embodied in my amendment. ler, Sidney Clarke. Conkling, Defrees, Dixon, Dodge,

that this bill would legislate out certain gentleEldridge, Finek, Glossbrenner, Goodyear, Grider, men now holding rank in the department is Mr.:SCHENCK. Very well; I should like Griswold, Aaron Harding, James M. Humphrey, not necessary; so that the only differences beto see that report of the general officers pro

Jenckes, Kelley, Latham, George V. Lawrence, Loan, duced here, instead of being talked about in Marshall, Marvin, Myers, Niblack, Nicholson, Sam

tween this amendment and the original section uc J. Randall, John II. Rice, Ritter, Rogers, Ross, are, first, that hereafter, if my amendment is I undertake to say this: that in the Shanklin, Sitgreaves, Spalding. Taber, Taylor, adopted, as vacancies occur they will be filled Senate the bill No. 67 was first introduced,

Thayer, Thornton, Robert T. Van Horn, Elihu B. and afterward another Senate bill No. 67, with Washburne, James F. Wilson, Windom, and Wood

and the force in the department will not be bridge-44.

diminished; and second, that when vacancies.

this way.

do occur they may be filled by graduates of the country. I know of one lieutenant colonel BRIDGE) have his time extended until he shall West Point. Whereas, if the original propo- who, instead of being in Washington, as the have concluded his remarks. sition is adopted, whenever vacancies occur gentleman says, having nothing to do but to There was no objection. graduates of West Point cannot be commis- sport his gold buttons, had three horses shot Mr. WOODBRIDGE. I do not believe in sioned to fill them.

under him in the field, as a commissary in the || long speeches, either before Congress or before I desire to båve read a communication from Army, and in one year disbursed over forty courts. It is a great deal easier to tire people the chiet of the bureau respecting the neces- million dollars in the city of New York. And, out than it is to secure their attention. sity of retaining the force as it now exists. sir, you find nowhere, either in the quarter- I was merely going on to say that this argu

The Clerk read the communication, as fol- master's or in the commissary's department, ment respecting West Point is one that is unjust lows:

where the offices are filled by men who have toward that institution and toward the men who OFFICE COMMISSARY GENERAL OF SUBSISTENCE, been educated where personal honor is the first have been educated there.

WASHINGTON CITY, April 16, 1866. law of their observance; you find nowhere com- Another feature of this bill, to which we shall SIR: In reply to your note of this date calling my attention to the provision of H. R. bill 361, section

plaints or charges against such men that their come hereafter, divorces West Point from the nineteen, reducing the number of officers of the sub- accounts are wrong or that they have disgraced Engineer corps, where it always has been, and sistence department, after being first filled to its themselves and injured the country by misap- where in my judgment it always should be, present strength, and asking my views thereon, I have the honor to state that the number of officers

propriating the moneys placed in their hands because the engineer officers are placed in that of the subsistence department now authorized is for the purchase of supplies.

department by reason of their superior attaintwenty-nine, which number it is proposed by this Why, sir, there is another lieutenant colonel ments in all the various branches of military bill to continue until reduced by the occurrence of vacancies to nineteen.

in this bureau, I will not call his name, who | knowledge. In my judgment, the subsistence department should graduated at West Point, served throughout Mr. SCHENCK. We are not considering Dot be reduced below its present number of officers, the Mexican war, led the forlorn hope at Cha- the engineer department now. nor their grade or designation changed.

pultepec, and greatly distinguished himself in Mr. WOODBRIDGE. The gentleman from All of the twenty-nine officers (except Captain Turoer, brevet major general of volunteers, who is

his early professional career. At the com- Ohio [Mr. SCHENCK) objects to my remarking in command of thedisi ict of Henrico, Virginia) now mencement of the rebellion he desired to take

upon any other portion of the bill, and I will composing the department, are at present on duty at points where their services cannot be dispensed with

the field, but his experience and usefulness in not pursue the argument further. without detriment to the service, which the accom

the department were such that he was obliged After the revolutionary war was over, Washpanying list will in a measure explain, As soon as to abandon the prospect of honor and promo- ington saw the importance of a military educaofficers can be spared from their present positions, tion in the field for the less fascinating but no the service of one will be required in Arizona, another

tion, and West Point was established. Through in Utab. One is (brcvet Major Cushing) now on his less honorable duties of the office.

the war of 1812 she carried us successfully; and way to the department of the Platte.

Now, sir, if it is true, as I believe it is-for in the war with Mexico, West Point obtained The Army is necessarily so widely scattered over the whole country of the United States that twenty

I am one of those who believe in the integrity | the most triumphant victories, and made the nine officers are not too many to give one officer to

of such men as General Eaton--that the force mogt triumphant marches that at that time were cach important purchasing point and point of gen- cannot be diminished, why does the gentleman on the record of history. eral supervision. Very respectfully, your obedient servant,

from Ohio insist on reducing the number of And during this great rebellion, what has A. B. EATON, otlicers from twenty-nine to nineteen? Before been the record of West Point? Look at her Commissary General of Subsistence. the war there were twelve or fourteen officers Grants, and Shermans, and Sheridans, and Hon. ROBERT S. HALE, House of Representatives. in this department, with an army of only seven- Meades, and her dozens and scores of others

Mr. WOODBRIDGE. Here we have a teen thousand men. During the war, with an who covered themselves with glory during this statement from General Eaton, who, during army proper of probably forty thousand, these last controversy. The heroes of the war that the last war, has won laurels for himself and twenty-nine officers have been required, and came from West Point challenge to-day the his department by the readiness and facility in addition to that some four or five hundred admiration of the world. They are the men with which he furnished supplies, giving his officers have been detailed from the volunteer whose names are written highest on the scroll reasons why there should be no diminution of service to fill various positions in the com- of honor. the force in his bureau, and his reasons are missary department. With an army of fifty Sir, I would not depreciate the efforts of good. He is supposed to know what the wants thousand at the minimum, with power of ex- other officers, or detract from their merit. of his department are, and he says that owing panding it to eighty thousand, or thereabouts, The volunteers of this country are entitled to to the great extent of our country, requiring so and with all of these volunteer officers mustered the lasting gratitude of the country; they have many military divisions, even now, with the out of the service, the whole duty will fall upon made their record high and heroic. But, sir, present force, there are two bighly important these twenty-nine men. And here is an at- war is a science, and the man who has been stations not occupied.

tempt to reduce the number from twenty-nine | educated to the profession is the more likely Now, I understand from the chairinan of the to nineteen. It looks to me, sir, as penny to excel. And when in addition to that educaComunittee on Military Affairs that this depart- wise and pound foolish."

tion, he is trained in those high notions of ment does not need many men, and that clerks Again, sir, an objection is made to West personal honor which West Pointers are trained can perform a large proportion of the duties Point graduates being permitted to have pro- in, you may put your Treasury in his hands and required. Why, sir, what is the history of the motion in this department. That seems to me every dollar will be accounted for. commissary department? It was formerly on to be unjust toward West Point. We are told Mr. SCHENCK. The proposition of the the civil list of the United States, and in the in this House that West Point has been a gentleman from Vermont (Mr. Woodbridge] war of 1812, when those holding civil offices school where treason has been nurtured. Well, is to strike out the House section and to insert were invested with the dnty of supplying the sir, if there have been men there who have the Senate section as a substitute. He admits Army, it was found that it was impossible to been taught treason, it was because they were the differences to be three, the first of which is seeure that order and regularity of supply which appointed by such men as until recently oc- in the titles given to these officers. The House is necessary to keep an army successfully in the cupied the War Department, and who had early | bill proposes to get rid of the titles of assistant field. Accordingly. in 1818, the department

was had instilled into them this pernicious doe commissary generals of subsistence and assistmade a portion of the military arm of the Gov- trine of State rights. But take the record, and ant commissaries of subsistence, and to provide ernment, and from that time to the present it you will find that not one third of the graduates for them by a couple of assistant commissary has always been so considered. Throughout of West Point either resigned or joined the generals, and call all the rest commissaries. the Mexican war, and the various Indian wars, rebel army; while one half of the civil ap- This is, as it was in regard to the quartermasits organization and efficiency have been ad- pointees in the regular Army deserted their ter's department, a matter of taste. The House mirable, and certainly during the rebellion it flag and went over to the rebels.

has concurred with the committee, by adopting has been a matter of amazement to all Euro- Šir, it is not, and it has not been, a nursery the section which they have reported in regard pean officers who have been here to see how of treason. It is, and it has been, a nursery to the quartermaster's department, and I hope the immense armies we have kept in the field of honorable, high-toned, high-minded, and they will agree with the committee to apply the have been supplied, having everything in the educated gentlemen. And if there is a place same rule to commissaries of subsistence. way of material that an army could need. under heaven where personal dignity and per- The gentleman admits that there is no ques

We are told by my friend from Ohio (Mr. sonal honor, under all circumstances, are in. tion between us as to the legal effect of that SCHECK] that there are too many officers hang- culcated, it is at West Point. Her course of | part of the bill, because I have ready an amending about Washington in this department. If education to-day is equal to that of any other ment precisely similar to that which was offered the gentleman had read the returns made by institution in this country; and the courses of to the other two sections of the bill--an amendthe department he would have seen that that study in our colleges have been improved by ment of such a character as to avoid effectually is not so; because, of the twenty-nine officers borrowing from West Point.

any such legal consequence as to deprive these connected with the department, there are only [Here the hammer fell.]

officers of their commissions. I leave, then, as five to-day performing duty at Washington. Mr. SCHENCK obta ed the por.

a mere matter of taste or a mere matter of conThe others are at Boston, Philadelphia, New Mr. THAYER. Will the gentleman from venience--for it is nothing more-the question York, New Orleans, San Francisco, and in Ohio [Mr. SCHENCK] give way to allow me to whether these officers shalí be called “assistant various other portions of the country where move that the time of the gentleman from Ver- commissaries general'' down the line till you purchases of supplies are absolutely demanded, mont [Mr. WOODBRIDGE] be extended ? come to the lowest, the captains, and then so that we have not a bureau filled up with Mr. SCHENCK. Certainly; I have no “commissaries of subsistence," or whether they men who are seeking advancement and not objection to that.

shall all, except the two principal assistants, performing duty. Of the twenty-nine men all Mr. THAYER. I ask unanimous consent be called commissaries. but five are distributed in various sections of

that the gentleman from Vermont (Mr. Wood- The next difference between the gentleman's

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