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which a great increase of bitterness has taken place, upon as a crime, or to find where any traitor quently used- I mean by it loyal to law, order, and displaying itself in a sort of social ostracism toward has been made odious. On the contrary, the

the Constitution--to support the Government under Union men, northern emigrants, and Army officers.

the Constitution. That was their feeling. They did There is a general desire on the part of the people to

tens of thousands of men who with devilish what they did believing it was best for the protecsee the bureau removed. The Governor would like hate sought the life of the nation are as com- tion of constitutional liberty. Toward the Constituto see it removoil, but while it remains extends to it

tion of the United States, as they construed it, the cordial cooperation. The city of Mobile appears to placent at the sad wreck they have made, and

great mass of our people were as much devoted in be largely under the dominion of rowdyism, and actu

as jubilant at the easy penalties they have their feelings as any people ever were toward any ated throughout by a feeling of hostility to the freed- incurred, as though they had been doing God's cause. This is my opinion. As I remarked before, men. During the past six months four colored churches have been burned in consequence of an work, and were receiving a crown of glory for

they resorted to secession with a view of maintaining

more securely these principles. And when they found attempt to establish colored schools in them."

their valor and devotion to the cause of treason. they were not successful in their object, in perfect Dr. James P. Hambleton, an ex-rebel sur

After the surrender of Lee to Grant these good faith, as far as I can judge from meeting with geon, thus testifies as to the feeling in Georgia: || thought that treason was a crime, and that men were ready to agree to any terms. They

them and conversing with thein, looking to the fuo turo developments of their country in its material

resources, as well as its moral and intellectual pror"The people there expect payment for their slaves there was a law in existence to punish it as ress, their carnest desire and expectation was to and for the destruction of property by the war when the passions of the hour shall have subsided. They such. They would have been willing at that

allow the past struggle, lamentable as it was in its

results, to pass by, and to cooperato with the trdo expect that at some future day there will be a sort

time to concede any condition for future good friends of the Constitution, with those of all sections of compromisc by which the southern States will be behavior and security in order to save their

who earnestly desire the preservation of constiturelieved of their share of the rebel debt as a compen

tional liberty and the perpetuation of the Governsation for their losses. The people hold the same lives and their property. But when the Presi

ment in its purity. They have been a little lisapopinions as to State sovereignty is before the war,

dent, from the goodness of his heart it may be, pointed in this, and are so now. They are patiently but having accepted the situation cannot, as honor- but certainly with mistaken clemency, gave

waiting, howover, and believing that when the pasable men, again resort to scocasion."

sions of the hour have passed away this delay in resthem a pardon for past offenses, and they found

toration will ceasc. They think they havedone everyTalk about the loyalty of the South! Loy. themselves far beyond the reach of the law, thing that was essential and proper, and my judgment alty to whom and to what? Loyalty to the they began to think that treason was not so

is, that they would not be willing to do anything furGovernment and people of the United States

ther as a condition-precedent. They would simply great an offense after all, that it was only a po

remain quict and passive." who have made them submit by force to the litical mistake, and not a crime. And to-day, Constitution and laws they fought so long and instead of being humble and penitent, we find

What will the loyal men of this country say desperately to destroy? Is it natural that the them open, bold, and defiant. They talk now

to such reasoning as this? After carrying on hearts of these people could so soon be changed of their rights in the Union, just as they used

a war of four years to break up the Governfrom one of intense, bitter, deadly hate to that to prate of their divine institution,'' and insist

ment, and after having been conquered and of devotion and attachment to the Govern- that we have no power to impose any terms

compelled to yield to a superior force, we are ment? And if their loyalty is pot one of de- upon them, and that all who do insist on terms

coolly told by these reconstructed patriots that votion and attachment, what kind of loyalty is are traitors and disunionists. I am inclined to

they expected their representatives to be adit? Do you propose to have two kinds of loy

mitted "as loyal men, and that when they think, sir, that if we were traitors we would alty, one for the North and the other for the

went into rebellion the people thought it was have a better chance of easy times for the future South? If you do, what is to be the nature of

best for constitutional liberty, and that they will than by standing forth as the advocates of our the one and the character of the other? If country's right, to be branded by such as they || people impose upon them, and says with the

not agree to any conditions that the American northern loyalty is shown by the thousands of as revolutionists. lives that have been lost and the millions of The President, in my judgment, made a

most supreme impudence that the South ought money that has been spent to preserve the na

to refuse all conditions, and in case conditions great, a sad, and I fear a fatal mistake in the tion, is southern loyalty to be proven by an

are demanded and refused, he says: indiscriminate manner with which he granted utter contempt for the brave heroes who put || pardon.

“Should such an offer be made and declined, and

these States should thus continue to be excluded and down the rebellion, by a shameful recital of I am satisfied he did it for the best, think. kept out, n singular spectacle would be presented. their high-handed outrages in desolating loyal || ing that after these men said they had lost all,

A complete reversal of positions would be presented.

In 1861 these states thought they could not remain States, or by making demigods of their trai- and that the Government, in its great clemency safely in the Union without nerv guarantees, and torous leaders, to whom even now they pro- | forgave them all, they would become penitent now, when they agree to resume their former practipose to erect monuments as enduring evidence and be moved by the tender cords of love to

cal relations in the Union under the Constitution as of their new-born love to the Government? Is

it is, the other States turn upon them and say they the side of the country. But, sir, the Presi- cannot perinit them to do so, safely to their interest, this the kind of loyalty you want? Is this the

dent has been mistaken. He has been made without new guarantees on their part. The southern kind of men you trust with the destinies of this the victim of misplaced confidence, and in

States would thus present themselves as willing for nation? If it is, then, in my judgment, you

imicdiate union under the Constitution, while it stead of their becoming penitent, they are as would be the northern States opposed to it. The forneed no joint committee to hunt it up. You defiant to-day as they were when Jeff. Davis mer disunionists would thereby become Unionists, will find it broadcast from Virginia to Texas. ruled at Richmond as the great high-priest

and the former Unionists the practical disunionists." If it is not, then you must wait, and wait pa- of the confederacy. Treason is still as deep

Surely, Mr. Stephens has been taking lessons tiently, until the people in that region learn and as damning in their bosoms as the day

from the President, or the President has been what you mean by loyalty, and set earnestly to the great southern heart was intlamed by the || learning from him. He says further on this work to obtain it.

attack on Sumter. They will strive to inake subject: Mr. Speaker, I am not an alarmist, but I the President think otherwise, to induce him "I think, as the Congress of the United States did cannot close my eyes to what is going on around to stand by them, and after he has stood by

not consent to the withdrawal of the seceding States,

it was a continuous right under the Constitution me, nor fail to note the signs of the times." them and they have once more got back the of the United States, to bo exercised so soon as We have barely emerged from one of the great- power they lost, they will turn on him to sting the seceding States respectively made known thcir est and most bloody conflicts known to the

readiness to resume their foriner practical relahim as surely as the viper turned to sting the

tions with the Federal Government, under the Conannals of history. Millions of treasure has farmer after he had warmed life into it.

titution of the United States. As the General Gov. been spent, hundreds of thousands of lives have It was but the other day that Alexander H. ernment denied the right of seccssion, I do not been sacrificed, and whole States have been Stephens, the vice president of the exploded

think any of the States attempting to exercise it

thereby lost any of their rights under the Constitudesolated by the ravages of war to put down confederacy, gave his testimony before the tion as States when their people abandoned that treason and to maintain and uphold the Con- committee on reconstruction, and what does attempt.” stitution and the Union. Sir, it' I mistake not,

Is it any wonder that these red-handed we are on the eve of a revolution that portends “But the people of that State, (Georgia.) as I have traitors are such friends of the “ President's as momentous consequences to the untold mil- said, would not willingly. I think, do more than they | policy," when they see and know that “hig lions of the future as the conflict through which

have done for restoration. Theonly view in theiropinwe have passed brought upon us. ion that could possibly justify the war which wascar

policy,'' and his alone, is to give back to them ried on by the Federal Government against them was all their rights as fully and place them in I cannot close my eyes to the fact that the thoidea oftheindissolubleness of the Union; that those possession of the Government as completely very men who brought on this war of rebellion,

who held the administration for the time were bound
to enforce the execution of the laws and the mainten-

as before they went into rebellion? And if and who strove through blood and persecution | ance of the integrity of tho country under the Con

this policy" be carried out, what penalty is to overthrow this Republic, are striving to-day stitution; and since that war was accomplished, since there, or can there be, for treason? And what to get back into the places they ignominiously

those who had assumed the contrary principle--the
right of secession and the reserved sovereignty of the

inducements will be held out for loyalty? On deserted, and are endeavoring once more to States-had abandoned their cause, and the Adminis- the contrary, will not a premium be offered control the Government they impiously tried tration here was successful in maintaining the idea for disloyalty, and treason made respectable ? to subvert. I cannot overlook the fact that in

upon which war was proclaimed and waged, and the
only view in which they supposed it could be justi-

The President's policy, in my judgment, has none of the States where treason was the most

fied at all; when that was accomplished, I say, the done more to make treason respected and traiviolent and vindictive, and where traitors were people of Georgia supposed their State was inmedi- tors heroes than the establishment and indethe most wicked and defiant, bas there been a

ately entitled to all her rights under the Constitu-
tion. That is my opinion of the sentiment of the

pendence of the confederacy could have done; single State government established, but that people of Georgia, and I do not think they would be because, if the President's policy is fully car. men whose records were the blackest for treason willing to do anything further as a condition-prece- ried out, it not only places the eleven seceding to the country have been elevated to the high

dent to their being permitted to enjoy the full meas-
ure of their constitutional rigbts. I only give my

or rebellious States in the hands of the rebels, est offices by the people; while on the other opinion of the sentiment of the people at this time. but by giving them once more a voice in the hand, men who were true to the country, and They expected that as soon as the confederate causo Government, the time will not be long before who suffered persecutions and confiscation, and

was abandoned that immediately the States would be
brought back into their practical relations with the

these same rebels will have the complete conwere at all times the stanch and unwavering | Government as previously constituted.

trol of the Government in all its departments. supporters of the Union, are set aside and That is what they looked to. They expected that No wonder, then, every rebel, from Davis to laughed at and mocked for their loyalty. I

the State would iminediately have their representa- the merest subaltern in the confederate army,

tives in the Senate and in the IIouse, and they exhave yet to see wherein treason has been looked pected in good fath, as loyal mon, as the term is fre

including bushwhackers, jaybawkers, and guer

he say:

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rillas, copperheads, and whilom peace men, of the United States put there by "policy'' in reach to aid them, I am disposed to think that are the earnest and devoted admirers of the the interests of slavery shall be stricken out, they would refuse to give any pension, bounty, “President's policy. It is just the policy'' | and that hereafter the southern States, instead or pay to our soldiers and sailors, unless you for them, because they plainly see that it is the of having a representation here based on the would agree to give the same to theirs. Why only one that they can live by and one which, | negro population, shall be represented accord- not? They think, in the language of the rebel through their newspaper press, they profess to ing to their white population alone or accord- ex-vice president, that when they took up arms die by. The President may continue to being to their voting population.

to tear down the Government they were aid. deluded; but I warn the Americ people I have heretofore given my reasons for this ing "to rescue, preserve, and perpetuate the to-day not to look with indifference at what is and do not propose to repeat them, but until a principles of the Constitution ;' and inasmuch going on about them, not to imagine, because constitutionalamendment of this kind is passed as that is just what our soldiers and sailors we have put down the war of rebellion, there | by Congress and ratified by the States I cannot thought they had periled so much to save, they is still no danger to the Republic. I say there vote to admit them to representation.

(the rebel soldiers) will claim as much of the is danger; and unless the people of the North, Desiring that “treason should be made odi- honor and gratitude as our own. the East, and the West arise once more in their ous,'' and knowing that it would be unsafe to These, Mr. Speaker, are the principles I would might and proclaim to the South, you shall not again trust political power to such as engaged advocate, to be made a part and portion of our be again invested with all the rights of loyal | in rebellion against the Government; feeling organic law. With them I think the country States until fundamental guarantees are given that I cannot safely trust such men in making will be safe; without them you might as well for future peace and security, you will see this laws for me, I want a constitutional amendment prepare yourself at once to see this GovernGovernment, in less than ten years, in the proclaiming in effect that no person who has ment in the hands of the men who have been hands of the very men who for the past four entered or shall hereafter enter into rebellion seeking to destroy it. years have been trying to destroy it.

against the United States shall ever be eligi- Congress owes it to the country to pass But it is said the President has the advantage || ble for President, Vice President, or member upon the propositions that I have named-and of Congress, because he has " a policy,” and of the Cabinet, or as a Senator or Represent- which I do not pretend to claim to be my ownCongress has none. It is a good thing for ative in Congress.

and to submit them to the States for ratifica"policy." The day of “policy' has, I trust, commonly called the test oath,” thatexcludes embraced in one proposition. So soon as they passed away, never to return. It was " policy' such persons from being Senators or Repre- are ratified by any or all of the eleven States, that brought on this rebellion, and that was sentatives; but once allow the southern States I would admit such of them to representation near making the rebellion a success.

to participate in legislation, and in conjunc- as adopt them. Such as do not adopt them So long as Congress and the Executive acted tion with the men who serenaded the Presi- I would exclude from representation until on “policy" in the prosecution of the war, dent on the 22d of February last, and who three fourths of the States have ratified them, defeat after defeat was the result. But so soon sented him with a set of resolutions in which so as to make them binding upon all. as “ policy” was thrown aside, and principles, this test oath is denounced, you will find that it In this way, and in this alone, in my judg

eternal and unchangeable, were pursued in- is but a “ rope of sand," and that it will be ment, can the honor, the safety, or the perpe. 4 stead, victory after victory perched upon the repealed as unconstitutional. I prefer, there- tuity of the Republic be established. banners of the Republic, until at last principle || fore, to make this a part of the organic law, so know there are some who do not apprewas made triumphant over policy in the total as to place it beyond the reach of any policy'' hend any evil consequences from allowing these and utter overthrow of treason. that may hereafter desire to repeal it.

States to be represented now without any conIt was

policy'' that induced the framers of I know it will be hard for the southern ditions and without any changes in our funda. the Constitution to recognize the existence of people, who have engaged in this rebellion, mental law. I wish I could think with them, slavery. It was “policy'' that made the Mis- to be taxed to pay off any public debt con- and could place that confidence in the honor souri compromise of 1820, and that led to its tracted in subduing them, and that it will be and loyalty of the men who went into rebellion repeal. It was “policy' that made the fugi. | desirable, and even a point of honor with as would warrant me in trusting them without tive slave law of 1850, and it is policy” that them, to tax her people to pay off the debt any guarantees. But, sir, I cannot believe would to-day yield to the spirit of slavery, and incurred by the rebel States in waging war that men who conspired so long and secretly give back to it more than it possessed when against the United States.

to bring on the rebellion, who fought so desfour million human beings were held in bondage. In order, therefore, to protect the hundreds perately and wickedly to make it a success,

No, sir; I want no policy; I have done with | of thousands of men and women who loaned who starved and tortured so many thousands it. I want principles-principles that will live their hard earnings to the Government to carry of our brave and heroic defenders in prisonwhen you and I are dead, and that our children on the war, and who received bonds in return, pens and in dungeons, who have taken so many can live by and bless us for when they come in on the express condition that they should be oaths, and have violated them, and become possession of the trust reposed in us.

promptly and faithfully met, as well as to pro- perjurers before God and man, and who since This war has already decided one principle. tect thousands of poor Union men in the South ihey have been vanquished and compelled to It has decided that hereafter, in this land of who do not want to be taxed to pay off the cease their strife, are as open and defiant as liberty, there shall be no such thing as a slave, rebel debt, I desire a constitutional amend- they should be modest and humbleI cannot and the American people have made this prin- ment that neither Congress nor any State shall believe, I say, sir, that such men are safe to be ciple a part of the organic law of the land. Mr. pass any law whereby any part or portion of trusted with the destinies of a great nation and Alexander Stephens, however, does not think the debt contracted in putting down rebellion of an injured and magnanimous people. that the American people had the right or the shall ever be repudiated, or whereby any part I may be mistaken. It is possible, barely power to make this a part of the Constitution, or portion of the debt, State or confederate, | possible, that they are sincere, and that they do although he says it was one of the results of contracted in aid of the rebellion, shall ever be not contemplate in the future to act in any the war. paid or assumed.

other way than for the glory and honor and Hear the logic of this ex-vice president of I am aware that all the lately rebellious States success of this mighty nation. If I have made the confederacy:

have either passed laws or have inserted clauses a mistake in not believing them to be thoroughly Question. Do you mean to be understood in your in their constitutions, looking to the same result, loyal, it is one made on the side of my country last answer that there is no constitutional power in but I am at the same time impressed with the and in behalf of her safety. The loyalty of the Government, as at present organized, to exact conditions-precedent to the restoration of political

conviction that “policy might lead these men men who have been engaged for over four years power to the eleven States that have been in rebel

hereafter to repeal their laws or alter their con- in breaking up the Government is at least lion?

stitutions, and I prefer that the American peo- doubtful. In doubtful cases it is better to give ** Answer. Yes, sir; that is my opinion. Question. Do you entertain the same opinion in

ple should place a prohibition in the Constitu- the benefit of the doubt to the side of the per reference to the amendments to the Constitution abol

tion that would be so high that ambition would manency of your country than against it. If ishing slavery? Answer. I do. I think the States, however, abol

never soar to reach it or cupidity dare to touch these men are at once taken in full fellowship ished slavery in good faith as one of the results of the

it. Besides, since they were so willing to put and granted equal rights and powers without war. Their ratification of the constitutional amend

this clause in their State constitution, they any guarantees, and it should afterward turn ment followed as a consequence. I do not think there could not object to aid us in placing it in the out that they were not true and sincere in their is any constitutional power on the part of the Government to have exacted it as a condition-precedent to Constitution of the United States.

loyalty, the consequences will be terrible, and their restoration under the Constitution, or to the

As our soldiers and sailors should be our nothing but the interposition of the all-powerresumption of their places as members of the Union.” || peculiarcare-especially since the President has ful arm of God could stay the anarchy that

Congress has decided another principle which said that he intends to rely upon them ex. would be its legitimate results. it had the power to do under the constitutional | pressly, I think we owe it to the sacrifices they Let us all, then, unite in insisting on such amendment abolishing slavery, and that is that

have made and the sufferings they have en guarantees as will secure a peace that is lasting all freemen should have the common rights of

dured, that there should be a constitutional and that will make the Constitution and the humanity-to sue, testify, and hold property; provision denying to Congress the right to Union as impregnable from treason within as thus, for the first time in the history of this hereafter pass any law by which any pension, | it is invincible from foes beyond its borders; Government, making good the averment in the bounty, or gratuity shall be given to any per- and whether our course be indorsed to-day or Declaration of Independence that

son who served in the confederate army, or not we shall have the consciousness of acting “All men are endowed by their Creator with cer

who went into rebellion against the Govern- | honestly and with a sole view of perpetuating tain inalienable rights, among which are life, liberty,

ment. I know there is no fear of this or the our institutions, and unnumbered millions yet and the pursuit of happiness,

next Congress passing any such law; but if unborn will justify our action and honor us for I propose that now, since slavery is no longer reconstructed traitors ever get into power, and standing firmly and unflinchingly by the ark of in existence, that the clause in the Constitution the Vallandigham Democracy should be within our safety.

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Mr. SMITH. · Mr. Speaker, as this is the you admit the constitutional principle to which will at the next election choose just such a only occasion probably upon which I will have I have referred that rebels must represent these man, and one reflecting the same opinions that an opportunity to speak outside of the regular people in the Congress of the United States. he does. What legislation can regulate this business of the House, I avail myself of it for It does not follow that rebels shall hold office. matter? Who can fix a rule by which it is to that purpose. I regret that the rule has not It does not follow that men who have attempted || be done? been suspended so that I might be allowed to to overthrow the Government shall come here Mr. BOUTWELL. If the gentleman will speak in the House and not have to come in and hold seats in this House and at the other end give way for a moment, I would like to say a Committee of the Whole to say what I think I of the Capitol. We have the determination of word just here. ought to be entitled to say in the House. But that question; we are to decide upon the quali- Mr. SMITH. If the gentleman thinks that as this is a day for general discussion, I suppose | fications ofthose who come here and claim seats; he can suggest a plan, I am always willing to my lips may be opened and I can say pretty and I presume there is no man who has loved | learn; and therefore I yield. much what I please. Therefore, I propose to his country and stood by it and defended it in Mr. BOUTWELL. I desire to ask the gendiscuss the same question that is discussed its hour of peril that would admit any man to tleman whether he does not see any difference here usually on Saturdays, namely, the condi- a seat to represent any portion of this country, between canvassing the political opinions which tion of the States and the condition of the coun- whose hands are not clean, and cannot do, as may be held upon questions concerning the try, the position of the President and the posi- we have all done, take an oath to support the administration of the Government by men tion of Congress at this time.

Constitution and laws of the country, and elected as representatives from loyal States, I hold, Mr. Speaker, as I have always held, swear that he has never uplifted his arm against and declining to recognize as entitled to repthat this war through which we have just passed | the Government of his country. That is not resentation people who at present are not repwas prosecuted for the purpose of restoring the || asked; it never has been asked by any one who | resented, and who cannot be until there is somo Union; that the action of all the eleven States has been loyal heretofore to this Government; affirmative action on the part of the Governwhich passed ordinances of secession, and || it never has been asked by the President of the ment, without an inquiry as to their opinions which claimed to be out of the Union, was United States. And I submit the question now, | concerning the right of the Government to null and void ; and that the entire action of not only to Congress, but to the country, what exist. If we find,

as we have found by the tesCongress, all the speeches made by Union are you to do? What will you do? What can timony of Mr. Stephens and others, that in: men, and by almost everybody else except you do contrary to what has been done already? some of these States which the gentleman dethose who were rebels and who believed in the

A policy was inaugurated by the late President sires should be represented immediately and right of secession, for there were some such on Lincoln, which has been carried out by Presi- without inquiry, nine tenths or nineteen twenthis floor, and I understand there are some such dent Johnson, under which these States have tieths of the people deny the right of this Gov. now, were made distinctly and emphatically formed their organizations, and under which ernment to exist, are they to come in here by maintaining the ground that those eleven States they are here to-day. Will you change that their representatives and attempt to use their were not out and could not get out of the Union. || policy; and if so, how will you

hange it?

political power for the overthrow of the Gov. They attempted to set up a government for Mr. SCOFIELD. I wish to ask the gentle- || ernment? Is not that a different question from themselves, making slavery the corner-stone man from Kentucky if it makes any difference the question how the Government shall be adof that government. It was an old and favor- whether we allow a man who was engaged in the ministered, all of us agreeing that it has a ite plan of many people in the South. It was rebellion to come in here and represent a dis- || right to exist? discussed fully, claborately, and at length, in trict, or some other man, who, although he was Mr. SMITH. As the question is presented this Hall and at the other end of the Capitol, not engaged in the rebellion, would vote ex- by the gentleman from Massachusetts, I admit for a quarter of a century, and the termination ||-actly as the rebel would? Does it make the the difference in the two propositions which he of that discussion brought on the war. Every | representation any better because the represent- presents. But, sir, allow me to say that I do loyal man in the country, North and South, ative did not happen to be engaged in the rebel- not confine the question alone to loyal States, and especially the loyal representatives of the || lion, provided his views are the same and his to Pennsylvania, Illinois, Massachusetts, or people, denied the right of those States to votes here would always be the same?

Kentucky. I submit this question in the case secede, or to go out of the Union, or to do Mr. SMITH. Well, Mr. Speaker, I do not of a State where that condition of things does anything by which the Constitution should be see how that difliculty can be avoided in the not exist, according to all the information we subverted or the Government overthrown. And future of our country.

have, which is not locked up and hidden from when it was my good fortune to enter the Mr. BOUTWELL. If the gentleman will the House and from the country—a State where Thirty-Eighth Congress, a large majority of permit me, I will suggest a way.

there are loyal men, who have from the beginthe representatives of the people sustained that Mr. SMITH. I prefer first to suggest my ning to the end of the late struggle evinced idea. It was my pleasure to act with them, own way. The gentleman from Massachusetts their devotion to the Union, and who have and to vote for men and money to suppress can suggest his afterward.

further manifested their loyalty to Congress by the rebellion and to keep these States in the Now, during the whole war, there were men returning to Congress as representatives men Union, so as to have one great and glorious | here representing States which were not in re- who are as loyal as any who now exercise the Republic. That was the policy pursued by the || bellion, but which had a rebellious element in privilege of this floor-in such a case as this late President, Mr. Lincoln; that is the policy | them, which contained rebellious districts, a how is it to be reconciled to the consciences of pursued by the present incumbent of the presi- || portion of the people of the State absolutely members of this House and the people of the dential chair, Mr. Johnson. That was in every || believing in the doctrine of secession. Gentle- || country, that such a community should be resolution and in every speech made, even by men representing such States hold seats upon denied the right of representation? the extremest men, upon this floor. That was this floor now. How are we to avoid that? Is Mr. BOUTWELL. Does the gentleman the doctrine to which the Union party adhered. there anything in the Constitution, is there mean to confine the elective franchise in Mis

Now, sir, after we have pursued that line of anything in any law by which we can prevent | sissippi, for example, to the loyal white men, policy and carried the war to a successful ter- people from sending representatives from any | excluding the disloyal white men? inination, and restored the Union by the sup- of the States which have not been absolutely Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir. pression of the rebellion, the remarkable, the in rebellion by the passage of an ordinance of Mr. BOUTWELL. Then I ask the gentle. wonderful doctrine is propounded on this floor secession by a State convention or by the Legis- man how a government is to be set up and in the Thirty-Ninth Congress that these States lature? It cannot be avoided.

maintained in such a State as Mississippi, it are out of the Union and should be kept out Now, I say very distinctly that, while the being matter of public notoriety, as well as of the Union until members upon this floor see State of Pennsylvania may to-day send to this the showing of sworn testimony, that nine proper to let them come in.

House a majority of good Representatives, men tenths of the white people are disloyal? Does Now, there is a plain provision of the Con- who will vote fairly and correctly and honestly the gentleman expect that one tenth of the stitution which no man can ignore, which no and conscientiously, it does not necessarily fol- white people of Mississippi will be permitted man can deny, and which is the substratum upon low that she will continue to send here, through || by nine tenths to set up and continue à governwhich our Government rests, and that is that all time, only men who will vote in accordance ment against the judgment of the nine tenths, there cannot possibly be a republican form of with the ideas of my distinguished friend who unless you support that government by the government unless representation accompanies has suggested this question. It is not to be power of the Federal authority ? laxation.

assumed that the district which I now have the Mr. SMITH. Now, Mr. Speaker, I am glad The very moment this war was closed, the honor to represent, and which I represented in that this question has been asked. According very moment the rebellious armies surrendered, the Thirty-Eighth Congress, will necessarily to the precedents established here by speeches the Government inaugurated a system of tax- return a man of my political sentiments at the || and by resolution in the Thirty-Seventh and ation throughout the entire South, appointing || next election. It is not to be assumed neces- the Thirty-Eighth Congresses by the strongest assessors and collectors in every district, who | sarily that the district which has sent here my men upon this floor, the doctrine was fully brought into the Treasury of the United States honorable colleague, [Mr. McKee,] who is as enunciated and maintained by a majority of nearly thirty million dollars. And yet it is a radical as it is possible for a man to be, and the Union men, among them the honorable conceded fact that throughout the entire South, || whom I love and admire because of his devo- || Speaker of this House, that the loyal people of during the war, the people were slain, their tion to the Union, will elect at the next elec- each State, regardless of numbers, were to be towns, cities, and houses were burned, their tion a man with the same zealous principles. || recognized and considered as the State, and onproperty was destroyed, and they were left Because a particular district in Illinois sends titled to the rights and privileges of this state, almost entirely destitute. If this be true, and now as its Representative a gentleman seven including the right of representation in Conif this Congress intends to insist upon that feet high, and with the strong political procliv- gress. policy, I ask, in the name of common sense, ities of my friend over the way, (Mr. Went

Mr. BOUTWÉLL. I did not ask the gentle. how long it can last. does not follow because WORTH,] it does not follow that that district man what the Speaker of this House, or any one else, has said. I asked the gentleman a gentleman from Kentucky to go on with his own domestic institutions according to its own judgpractical question; if it appear upon testimony remarks.

ment exclusively is essential to the balance of power,

on which the perfection and endurance of our politiwhich cannot be disputed that nine tenths of Mr. SMITH. I thought the gentleman had

cal fabric depends." the people of Mississippi are disloyal, does the yielded the floor to me unconditionally. I do gentleman expect that those nine tenths will not wish to get into any trouble. I am trying

Now, there is no statement in that as to the permit the one tenth to set up and maintain a to be as courteous as I can.

number of the people who shall compose a government?

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from

State. I say, with all deference to this louse, Mr. SMITH. Mr. Speaker, if that ques- Pennsylvania may address the member upon

Congress has violated the laws in the admistion should be reduced to a practical form- the floor for the purpose of explanation, but

sion to representation to Congress from those if it be true that in such a case one tenth of he cannot address other members.

States lately disorganized, but now ready for the community must rule, that one tenth alone Mr. RANDALL, of Pennsylvania. I desire

admission to representation, If the gentle must be allowed to vote, that one tenth should the gentleman froin Kentucky to yield to me to

man from Nevada were here in his seat I would be regarded as the State, and the remaining put a question to the gentleman from Massa

say that that State has not the requisite numportion of the people must be entirely ostra- chusetts. I do not listen to what the gentle- ber of people to entitle it to representation cized, must not be considered as entitled to the man from California says; I yield to the decis

upon this lloor, yet she has two Senators and right of suffrage in the reorganization ; who ion of the Speaker.

a Representative in Congress. Now, what are is to fix that? The gentleman no doubt will Mr. SPEAKER. The gentleman from Ken

you to do? If you carry out the rule strictly say “Congress is to fix it.” Very well, ad- tucky has the right to yield the floor to the

you would have prevented that thing. If the mit it, for the sake of argument. Then why gentleman from Pennsylvania for personal || loyal people who have maintained their alledoes not Congress fix it, and let the loyal one explanation under the rule which has so often giance to the Government in any of these States tenth of the people be represented in Congress, been read.

still claim it as a State, it is a State. and enjoy all the other rights to which, as Mr. SCOFIELD. For explanation of the Now, I submit a question to the gentleman loyal citizens, they are entitled under the pending measure.

on the other side. The States have been disConstitution?

The SPEAKER. The gentleman will see that organized. Their governments have been someI know that the distinguished gentleman does not extend to interrogating other members.

what subverted-entirely if you please. Slafrom Ohio, (Mr. Bingham,] whom I regret to Mr. RANDALL, of Pennsylvania. Let me very has been overthrown, one of the funsay I do not now see in his seat-a gentle- ask the gentleman from Massachusetts how he damental institutions of each State, a constiman who is justly looked upon as one of the believes' nine tenths of the disloyal people of tutional provision of each State, one recogleaders of this House, a man for whose opin- a State could destroy or impair the rights of nized by the Constitution of the United States ions I have a very high regard, and one wlose the loyal one tenth. Now, if that loyal one and maintained by all the laws of the Governlead I have followed during the troubles of the tenth have to pay taxes have they not certainly

ment of the United States. There has been last three or four years--asserted in the Thirty- the right of representation? Having that right

an entire subversion of that institution in Seventh Congress, in the case of an applicant of representation, when they come here and every State of the Union. The Governors who for a seat from the State of Virginia, that the present loyal men and who are capable of tak- went into the rebellion have all been, turned twenty-five men who alone had voted for that ing the oath I have taken, what reason can he out of office. How? By what means? By applicant, were the district, and that therefore give for not admitting them to seats upon this force, by war. By men supplanting the prinhe was entitled to a scat on this floor; and he || floor?

ciples upon which they stood before the war was accorded'a seat by a majority of the votes Mr. BOUTWELL. I should like to answer and repudiating the action of the Governors of the House, the Union men voting for his the question if the gentleman will permit me.

then elected and the Legislatures then in power. admission.

Mr. SMITH. I will yield to the gentleman

And what do we find to-day? No man on Again, sir, the gentleman from Tennessee, from Massachusetts if he will not take up too this floor has ever yet given a different conMr. Maynard, held a seat on this floor as a much time in answering the question.

struction nor can do it. There is a State govRepresentative from the State of Tennessee Mr. BOUTWELL, I will answer as briefly ernment in every State lately in rebellion, a during the Thirty-Seventh Congress, after that as I can.

Governor, a Legislature, a judiciary, all the State had adopted an ordinance of secession. Mr. SMITH. Do not take too much time. power which belongs to States under the ConMr. McKEE. Will my colleague permit me Mr. BOUTWELL. You can stop me when

stitution. And what is it? It is recognized to ask him one question ? you please.

as republican in form. It is considered good. Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir.

Mr. Speaker, the right of representation, But suppose you do not like it; suppose you Mr. McKEE. In the case of the election of whether in the Senate or in this House, is a will not admit it as a principle upon which that gentleman from Virginia, did any others right which pertains to States as States, and these States should be organized and received than those twenty-five who voted offer to vote can be exercised by the people only through

back into the Government: what are you or want to vote?

the recognized State organizations. The State | going to do, and when are you going to do it? Mr. SMITH. I do not know anything about organizations in these eleven States, which once

You say that the President has no power to do that; and it is not pertinent to the question. existed in harmony with the organization of the what he did. Why do you not undo it? You The rule of law and of practice in such a case national Government, by some event or through have been here five months. The intellect of is, that it makes no difference whether there a series of events, have ceased to exist as a the nation, I presume, is in this Hall and the were twenty, or twenty thous men voting. matter of fact, because they are not represented. other. The representatives of the people are No matter how many refuse to vote, those who That is the evidence they have ceased to exist. here from all the districts except these eleven do vote are entitled to representation, and their | How, why, or when is a matter of no impor- States. If what has been done by President representative is entitled to his seat.

tance. Before any representation from either Lincoln and President Johnson is not good, Mr. RANDALL, of Pennsylvania. Will the of those States can be exercised you must have why in the name of common sense, justice, gentleman from Kentuoky yield to me for a the previous recognition of the right of the State right, and constitutional law, do you not undo moment?

to be represented. And in the inquiry as to and do something else that is good ? Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir. the right of a State to be represented we must

Well, suppose you do undo it, what are you Mr. RANDALL, of Pennsylvania. I desire look to the whole constituency of a State to going to do in its place? You are bound to to ask the gentleman from Massachusetts [Mr. ascertain whether there is such an existing loyal have a State government, to have the same BOUTWELLJ a question. I would like to know sentiment as will reasonably lead to the expec- machinery there that exists now. You say that whether he believes that it is in the power of tation that the representation of that State will you want the rebel debt repudiated. It has nine tenths of the people of a Statebe loyal.

been done. You say you want the constituMr. HIGBY. I object to the gentleman from I will answer the question distinctly. There | tional amendment adopted. It has been done. Pennsylvania asking a question of the gentle is no right of one tenth of the people of a State, You say you want loyal men elected to Conman from Massachusetts.

even though loyal, to be represented as a State. gress. How do you know that that has not The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Ken- It is the right of the people, of the whole people, been done in every instance? Who has detertucky having the right to the floor has a right when they demonstrate their loyalty to this Gov. mined that question? Has the legitimate power to yield

ernment, to be represented as the people of that of each House investigated it, decided upon it, Mr. HIGBY. I object to the gentleman State.

and reported to each House upon it? The from Pennsylvania putting a question to another Mr. RANDALL, of Pennsylvania. The gen- Committee of Elections have done nothing, gentleman who is not upon the floor.

tleman overturns the doctrine of Mr. Lincoln reported nothing on the subject. The repreMr. RANDALL, of Pennsylvania. Then I from the beginning.

sentatives of the various States claiming to be will ask the gentleman from Kentucky to put Mr. McKEE. Allow me to ask a question. | loyal have been asking admission on this floor, to the gentleman from Massachusetts the ques- Mr. SMITH. Not now. Mr. Speaker, Mr. and they have been rejected. Upon what tion which, to avoid circumlocution, I pro- Lincoln used language which I think it proper | ground ? Congress says the States lately in posed to ask directly myself.

to read just here. I think it was when he was rebellion are not properly organized. Why do The SPEAKER. The Chair thinks the gen- first inaugurated President of the United States. you not organize them? What are you waiting tleman from California (Mr. Higby] is correct I did not vote for him then, but fell into the ranks for? in the point which he raises, as the gentleman and followed hiin afterward during the war. I You say you want to see loyalty in the South. addressed has not the floor to reply.

think it is good authority to quote from. I want When are you going to get it? How are you Mr. HIGBY. I do not want the gentleman his original supporters to go back upon him, if | going to get it? Are you going to get it this from Pennsylvania to speak in the time which they can, and when the war is over deny the year, or next year, or the next, or when? Have I, being entitled to the floor, have yielded to doctrines of that great man. He said:

you any assurance that you will have any more the gentleman from Kentucky. I want the | The right of each State to order and control its || loyalty two, three, four, or five years hence

than you have now? I can very well conceive these people. Why do you not introduce your body. They want to punish a State, a corpohow a man will be elected who is considered a law for that?

ration, for what a few men have done. They local man to-day, from a district in Alabama, Mr. SCOFIELD. I would ask the gentle- || refuse, by any declarative action of theirs, so who can take the oath and take his seat here man why he does not introduce a bill to that as to put themselves right upon the record. and vote and act with the Union men, and that effect.

I know what it means.

It does not need a at the next election they may send back an- Mr. SMITH. I will, if some of you do not man of great experience to understand it. It other man from the same district of different do it.

is because President Johnson has followed the politics. But how are you going to avoid that ?

Mr. SCOFIELD. Why has not the gentle- || policy of President Lincoln. He carried out What statute will enable you to avoid it? There man done it before? He has been here five that policy, and States have been organized in is none. months.

the rebel States, republican in form, and which There is but one process by which it can be Mr. SMITH. I have been waiting for it to cannot be overturned or destroyed, which this remedied, by some constitutional enactment, be done by some of the gentlemen who have | Congress dare not destroy. I leave it to time such as was offered by the gentleman from Illi- shown so much biood-thirstiness in regard to to prove the truth of what I

say. It is because nois [Mr. Baker) the other day. If when this the rebels.

they feel the force and effect of that policy Congress assembled it had passed two amend- Mr. SCOFIELD. The gentleman is the only | upon the people. The great mass of the peoments to the Constitution and stopped there, I one now talking with any blood-thirstiness, and ple will soon rise to maintain it, whether they beliere the country would have been quiet and he calls upon us to say why we have not done have belonged to one party or the other hererestored to a degree of peace to-day that it something to punish these men.

tofore. will not reach for years to come.

Those two Mr. SMITH. Because the organs of the Mr. RANDALL, of Pennsylvania. The amendments should have been: 1. Repudia- radical portion of Congress, and of those who President of the United States did, on the 2d tion of the rebel debt and no taxation hereafter are opposed to the policy and conduct of the of October, 1865, address a letter to Chief Jusfor the payment of any portion of it. 2. That Administration, are denouncing him day after tice Chase on this subject, and the Chief Jusno man who had gone voluntarily into the rebel | day because he does not do something. And | tice, on the 12th of October following, replied, army or given aid and comfort to the rebellion yet members sit in their seats here or walk | declining to hold a court as suggested by the should hereafter hold an office within the gift about the city or go through the country con- President, and proposed a military tribunal for of the Federal Government. If Congress had | demning the President for what should be justly | the trial of these people. passed those two amendments to the Constitu- charged to the Congress of the United States, Mr. SMITH. That is true. I understood tion by this time the country would have been and which cannot be shouldered on him. the President to say so myself. restored to peace and quietness, and no Repre- Mr. ELDRIDGE. I would ask the gentle- Mr. SHELLABARGER. I want to make sentative from the rebel States would have taken man from Kentucky [Mr. Smitu) if he desires a suggestion in reference to what has been said his seat here who was not loyal to the Govern- to be understood as claiming that Congress has of Chief Justice Chase. I do not know these ment. Then those who had not used their the power to pass laws now under which these statements are exactly parliamentary, but as efforts to overthrow and destroy the Govern- men shall be tried, condemned, and punished; one has been made, I desire to say this: within ment would have been represented here, as they | and must that not be done under the laws that a few days the Attorney General of the United are entitled according to your Constitution, and existed at the time the crimes were committed ? States made a statement to myself and others, you could have collected you taxes with the Mr. SMITH. As a matter of course they | not confidential or private, which it may be same ease that you do it now in the North. must be punished under the laws that existed well enough to be known by the nation. He,

Now, I want this country to be in the hands at the time their crimes were committed. But the law officer of the Government, stated that of Union men. I want men to control it who Congress can by law provide the means by the position taken by Chief Justice Chase under are fitted to maintain it in the future. I want which they can be brought to justice.

the circumstances was proper, as the condi. the people who have sustained it during its dark Mr. ELDRIDGE. Must they not be tried tion of the country was not such as to make a days to pilot it in the years to come. But I in the district prescribed by the laws which judicial trial much less than a mockery. Chief assert from my place to-day, with all serious. existed at the time the crimes were committed? || Justice Chase was therefore right, in the opinness, and with as much earnestness and hon- Mr. SMITH. I will agree to that. But the lion of the Attorney General, in declining for: esty, as in my judgment can be possessed by districts are as numerous as the men them- | the time to hold court on account of the disany man, that this Congress is doing a wrong selves. We can have them tried in Virginia turbed condition of the State where the trial which will result in injury to this great Govern- and all the southern States because the courts was to be held. ment by denying the great constitutional prin- are now reëstablished there.

Mr. SMITH. Mr. Speaker, I wish to say only ciples upon which the Government of this coun- Mr. BROOMALL. I would ask the gentle- this: if the opinion of the Chief Justice was cortry is founded, in refusing to a people, however man from Kentucky [Mr. Smith] what addi- rect, and that a civiltrial would have been nothing rebellious they may have been, who have been tional legislation he considers necessary and less than a mockery, that in all the mass of civilwhipped and completely subjugated until they what power has Congress to pass laws for the ians a jury could not be found that would conlaid down their arms and agreed to be obedient || punishment of crimes committed heretofore. vict them of treason, would it not be a farco

and mockery for a commission to be called? represertation in the councils of the nation the President of the United States had nothing I say that the position assumed by Congress where they should be heard.

to do with it; and I was undertaking to defend and Chief Justice Chase, and other leading Gentlemen say we must punish somebody. the President against the charge tliat he does men in the country, to throw the whole onus Very well, I agree to that. The distinguished not punish anybody, when he had no right to of complaint and blame upon the President of gentleman from Massachusetts (Mr. BOUTWELL) | punish anybody. If the right existed in any the United States is wrong, unfair, and unjust. offered a resolution some days ago directing | place at all to lay down a plan by which these It is as certain to recoil upon them as the sun an inquiry to be made as to why some of these people were to be brought to trial it was in will rise and shine from day to day until the men have not been punished, and calling for Congress and nowhere else. They failed to do | world shall end. the punishment of Jeff. Davis and others of it. I know Congress cannot pass ex post facto Now, I know that attacks were made upon the leaders of this rebellion. Now that very laws. I know that.

the President of the United States long before indirection seems to be casting blame upon Mr. BROOMALL. What law can Congress || this Congress met. I know that the very day the President because these men have not

this Congress was organized an attack was been punished.

Mr. SMITH. I understand how men would made upon him by which it was attempted to What is the fact? The inquiry was made avoid if they could, bringing the people they || take out of his hands everything that had been of the Chief Justice of the United States as to charge as having been guilty of the highest done or that he could do, and to reverse every why he did not hold a court for the trial of crimes known to the laws of the country to principle which had been adopted for six or those charged with treason. His reason was justice because it will affect to some extent the eight months, and to place the whole matter that martial law existed in Virginia and the policy pursued by Mr. Lincoln and President in the hands of a committee, whose proceedother rebel States, and it was injudicious to Johnson.

ings are so secret that no member of the House, hold a court in a State where martial law was Mr. BROOMALL. I desire to ask the gen- even, is permitted to know what they are doing prevailing. And yet a court has been held tleman what power Congress has in the mat- I happened to vote for the appointment of under that same Chief Justice in the District ter. And where does it get it?

that committee, and I am sorry for it. They of Columbia, where martial law exists, and Mr. SMITH. I would like to ask the gen- say that full confession is good for the soul, has acted upon questions in which all the States tleman from Pennsylvania–I do not want him and I am always ready to confess when I do lately in rebellion were interested. to answer, as I will answer for him-what

wrong. I did vote wrong then, because I had The Secretary of War was called upon and power has the President in the matter?

but just entered the House, and I believed that he expressed the same sentiments. The Pres- Mr. BROOMALL. To enforce the laws as the Union party, with what I had heretofore ident has reserved from pardon five hundred they exist.

acted, was still composed of Union men who leading men in the rebellion, as is well known Mr. SCOFIELD. To execute the laws. did not adhere to the infamous doctrine, which to Congress and to the country. Now, why do Mr. SMITH. If the position assumed by I had fought for four years, that a State is out you not pass a joint resolution calling for the these gentlemen be true, that Congress has no of the Union, and not entitled to representatrial and execution of these traitors? Because power by any process of legislation over these tion. I went with them, therefore; but the Fou want to dodge it; and why? Because you rebels who have thus acted, what power have moment I found out that their policy was to know the President of the United States has they to legislate in reference to the rebels in | maintain that the States were out of the Union, no power in himself to do it; Congress alone the States under the parole of the Administra- | and should be treated as Territories, that mohas the right to make such laws as will provide tion? What right have they to keep them out? ment I abandoned them. It was not the great for the trial, condemnation, and punishment of || They want to punish the whole of them in a Union party, true to the Government and the

39Th Cong. Ist Sess.-No. 132.



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